Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Its A048, your really starting to bug me! READ MY POSTS!! I said he uses them for 4 or 5 races/weekends before he gets s new set but still keeps the old ones for trackdays with the track car. At any point did i say he uses them for 30 minutes and throws them away.
AMOC classes its races as endurance with driver changes etc thats why i said it was an endurance race. He does alot of miles on them with 4 20 minute sessions at each weekdn chucking 3 AMOC races with it, also 6 sessions at spa.

You put some season budget suggestion with a new set of tires every race meeting would be a sensible thing to do which front runners do all the time and that what you're saying your Dad does is the bare minimum, which I can assure you it isn't.

G-forces - the most you'll get in an affordable single seater running to MSA rules (40mm ride height) is going to be about 2g (maybe a little bit more if you get a REALLY good one, drive REALLY well, and can afford the softest compounds).

At 2g you'll feel it for a few days afterwards, especially at the start of the season, but it won't be a problem until you hit about 60 years old, gym or no gym. Bear in mind the races are generally short at club level - 15 minutes common, 30 minutes occasionally. You don't need a huge amount of physical endurance really - although I'm sure being fitter helps.

The worst thing was inexperience - everything happened so fast in the car that there was no spare mental capacity to think about anything other than not crashing. Now I can plan a few passes ahead, think about lines, turning and apexs, ponder what position I'm in and how I can adjust the car (bars and bias) etc etc. I'm not quite at the level where I could hold a conversation at the same time as driving quickly, but it's not far off - although I'd have nobody to talk to. I'd love to record my voice on my MP3 player whilst driving and try to annotate, but I think it'd be 14.5 minutes of silence and 30 seconds of random swearing or coughing.

Is 2G all you get for all that money! ??? I can get 2G in a TKM for gods sake!

I could get much more than 2G driving my bike dead straight into a wall. You can replicate this for only £600 (per experience). Your point?

Quote from Intrepid :

Is 2G all you get for all that money! ??? I can get 2G in a TKM for gods sake!

Yes but your kart is a lot smaller lighter and does it at much slower speeds.

8 - 10 seconds of sustained 2g at 120mph? That's a pretty good kart you've got.

What do karts get on the brakes? 1.8g?

Just wondering with the mechanical side of racing, I have watched loads of the Mark Evens stupid programs like a race car is born where in the end races the westfield he built through the serious and on the track he had a hired mechanic/engineer to set up the car for him. How much would these guys cost to hire for a season and race, i guess for a season a couple of grand and a race a few hundred quid? because I am sure they wouldn't mind teaching you a few things because I am seriously thinking of starting to race in a car first then moving to a single seater because a car will have more parts available to replace as you know what parts are in the car and where you got them from so it will be easier to locate parts, also may be a good learning curve to know what the whole car/single seater racing is like, I hope it is like the motorcross atmosphere, could chat to anyone and have a good look around their bike and you let them do the same.
Well only time can tell, just need to get school and college out the way and save up some money get a nice house/flat to rent and buy a car and race car and take it from there.

Sorry if this is a bit hard to read but i'm in a rush as I need to sort out the problem we have with our dbox.

Quote from tristancliffe :

8 - 10 seconds of sustained 2g at 120mph? That's a pretty good kart you've got.

What do karts get on the brakes? 1.8g?

lol I would like to see you spend after 20 laps in an Aixro with some sticky Bridgestones on... there is no rest time on a kart circuit... it's just pain after pain, after more pain!

Chances are a mechanic, unless it's a friend of the family, will want paying at a reasonable rate, so assume £15/hour. For a race weekend, that might be 24 hours at the circuit, which is £360. For a 12 race season, with them only working at races (24*12=) £4320. But if you need to hire a mechanic for the races you'd presumably need one to do the more complicated work in the garage between races, so budget between £15k - £30k for a season contract...

Or just learn how to do it yourself like 99% of people in club racing, because your own time is free.

Quote from Intrepid :

lol I would like to see you spend after 20 laps in an Aixro with some sticky Bridgestones on... there is no rest time on a kart circuit... it's just pain after pain, after more pain!

I'm sure there isn't. But there must be a reason why every decent driver gets out of karts and into cars as soon as humanly possible...

Quote from tristancliffe :

Chances are a mechanic, unless it's a friend of the family, will want paying at a reasonable rate, so assume £15/hour. For a race weekend, that might be 24 hours at the circuit, which is £360. For a 12 race season, with them only working at races (24*12=) £4320. But if you need to hire a mechanic for the races you'd presumably need one to do the more complicated work in the garage between races, so budget between £15k - £30k for a season contract...

Or just learn how to do it yourself like 99% of people in club racing, because your own time is free.

True, learning yourself is the best way to learn, my dad taught himself everything he knows about cars, hasn't done one course to become a mechanic and the AA have tried offering him a job twice now but he doesn't like the hours and the pay. That's what must be best racing in a club, hasn't got the side of I need to win for the money etc.. just get out there and have fun and as it is for fun you can learn how to setup the car up and what needs to be changed in order for the car to perform well.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I'm sure there isn't. But there must be a reason why every decent driver gets out of karts and into cars as soon as humanly possible...

Please explain to why every drivers jumps STRAIGHT back into karts once they have ended their professional careers?

And if you had any bit of knowledge about motorsport you would know Schumacher would frequently attend the kart circuit, sometimes on his own, throughout his F1 dominating years. He did also competed in 2001 at the worlds in Kerpen....Senna also continued to compete in karting.... but I guess these guys are just bandits????

You also have to consider the FIA are pretty strong on this as well. They blocked Luizzi and Speed competing in the SuperNats in the USA and said if they did they would remove their super licence... but you know that right??? You know about that oh educated one!

I have spoke to many a 'professional' driver who would HAVE loved to have stayed in karts... in fact most explain to me how BORING cars are compared to karting, but their professional ambitions have to take prominence. Something which I have never argued againt

Quote from Intrepid :

Please explain to why every drivers jumps STRAIGHT back into karts once they have ended their professional careers?

And if you had any bit of knowledge about motorsport you would know Schumacher would frequently attend the kart circuit, sometimes on his own, throughout his F1 dominating years. He did also competed in 2001 at the worlds in Kerpen....Senna also continued to compete in karting.... but I guess these guys are just bandits????

You also have to consider the FIA are pretty strong on this as well. They blocked Luizzi and Speed competing in the SuperNats in the USA and said if they did they would remove their super licence... but you know that right??? You know about that oh educated one!

I have spoke to many a 'professional' driver who would HAVE loved to have stayed in karts... in fact most explain to me how BORING cars are compared to karting, but their professional ambitions have to take prominence. Something which I have never argued againt

Probably because karting is a laugh. If it was so good then they'd want to spend their careers in them, and everyone would be paid millions of dollars to race gokarts. The money hasn't gone into single seaters just because they look nicer, and they don't start children off in difficult vehicles...

I enjoy karting, I really do. I'd go tomorrow if you invited me over. But to try and pretend it's any near a pinnacle of any sort is just silly. Schumi might want to relax and play in karts between F1 titles. Just like Trulli manages a vineyard, and Senna played with model planes (more often than he went karting).

But I think most of all (and lets ignore the REALLY great talents in motorsport, because they don't have anything to do with mortals like you or I) it's the fact that karts are for children that stop most people continuing in them. You don't see many 8 years olds driving Formula 3 cars, and that perception (even though it's forced by regulatory bodies) filters through. In the same way the new Dallara looks like an F1 car with sculpted sidepods even though it doesn't need or benefit from them - perception is everything.

Quote from tristancliffe :

In the same way the new Dallara looks like an F1 car with sculpted sidepods even though it doesn't need or benefit from them - perception is everything.

Are you talking of this one? http://www.dallara.it/sub_page.cfm/editID/179

Tristan is right Intrepid, I loved my time racing karts and if/when I can afford to do it again I will. It's the cheapest way to go racing wheel to wheel and the racing is just so close. The sheer grip and acceleration is awesome, not to mention the fact that 90% of the time if there happens to be contact you can usually escape with little to no damage. I just can't understand why you are so adamant in pushing it every time you post. Fair enough if it is someone who thinks a real kart is a lawn more engine hire kart capable of 35mph at a push but this is Tristan. As far as I'm aware he has had a shot of a TKM so understands they are not little puny 4 strokes.

But at the end of the day I doubt you or anyone for that matter would turn down racing an older single seater.

Quote from sam93 :

Are you talking of this one? http://www.dallara.it/sub_page.cfm/editID/179

No, I'm referring to the F308

Quote from tristancliffe :

No, I'm referring to the F308

It does look like a F1 car, but it costs well over £100,000
Just to make sure I have got the right pic of a F308? http://www.fortecmotorsport.co ... ts/homepics/homepic01.jpg

No that's the same car you linked to last time this is what you want.

Quote from ajp71 :

No that's the same car you linked to last time this is what you want.

Strange, thats what pic it came up with when I searched google images for a Dallara F308.

Alex is right. Here's another picture of one.

I'm amazing at the lack of wing area on modern F3 cars! I know they have different wings for high, medium and low downforce configurations, but still - they seem to have a tiny amount of effective wing area compared to my car, but generate more downforce - such is the effect of R&D and CFD.

hellishly ugly looking long nose though... im sure it great for safety but still the car looks disfigured

Yes, they do look a bit silly. I still think the late 80s and early 90s single seaters (F3, F3000, F1) looked far better in every way than modern stuff. But the modern stuff is modern, and probably better in every way.

Quote from keiran :

Tristan is right Intrepid, I loved my time racing karts and if/when I can afford to do it again I will. It's the cheapest way to go racing wheel to wheel and the racing is just so close. The sheer grip and acceleration is awesome, not to mention the fact that 90% of the time if there happens to be contact you can usually escape with little to no damage. I just can't understand why you are so adamant in pushing it every time you post. Fair enough if it is someone who thinks a real kart is a lawn more engine hire kart capable of 35mph at a push but this is Tristan. As far as I'm aware he has had a shot of a TKM so understands they are not little puny 4 strokes.

But at the end of the day I doubt you or anyone for that matter would turn down racing an older single seater.

I was just thinking about this in the shower. I should point out first that my only foray in TKM was with an old, knackered, cracked chassis that had terrible oversteer (I know I'm not very good, but there is no way I'd get that much oversteer on my first few laps if it wasn't the kart).

Anyway, karting. I'd have thought that MANY people on this forum can name last years championship winner in F1, GP2, F3 (British or Euro), BTCC, DTM, A1GP, WRC, WTCC, Champcar, IRL etc etc. I doubt many people on this forum can mention one single karting champion of last year. I can't think of one from Britain, let alone any other country.

Now, if karting is so good, so difficult, and so technically challenging that the best drivers in the world PREFER to be racing karts, then how come we never hear about it, see it on TV or on the media or anything. The only place I can think of to get vague karting info is karting.co.uk (and it's shitty brother karting1.co.uk), but last time I looked it was a terrible website to find anything out on anyway.

And you can't say "it's because there isn't any money in karting", because if it was so good that the best preferred to stay there then the money would have gone to karting, and all the spectators would watch karting, or read about karting rather than the 'easy' single seaters that are used to work out which gokarters are, in fact, any good in the first place.

Karting is GREAT with mates. One of the best activities to do with a group of friends period. But it's primary aim in motorsport is simply to teach 7 year olds how to accelerate, brake, turn and overtake. Nothing more, nothing less.

lol Tristan well if that's what you think fine. Maybe one day you'll be in F1 or something! lol

Your weird defensive ignorance only means you are missing out on probably one of the most recognised learning tools for any race driver on the planet. It's not like F1 teams invest heavily in drivers on the basis of their kart driving...oh... it appears they do http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=42299 really that is the END of the argument!

But if you want to live in a world where karting only teaches how to push the throttle then that's fine... I guess me, Honda F1, McLaren F1, and the rest of the motorsport world can disagree with you.

and for someone that says karting is for 'children' you sure do act like one -

Quote :

The only place I can think of to get vague karting info is karting.co.uk (and it's shitty brother karting1.co.uk)

How many drivers have ever had racing kart professionally as their dream?

How many drivers have stepped from a kart into an F1 car?

How many have stepped straight from an F3 car to F1?

Which one is logically higher up on the motorsports ladder?

Kimi only did F Renault for a year or two after karts b4 getting into F1... does that make F3 pointless?

It depends what you mean by 'motorsport' ladder. Is it a measurement of talent? Of course not. I can go and race F3 next year if I want... doesn't mean I am more talented than the average club karter.

The FACT is F1 teams ARE signing KART drivers.... They have realised that is where you need to look for THE best future talent. Martin Witmarsh on Macca's latest signing -

Quote :

You cannot judge talent on one race, however a clear example of why we have joined forces with Oliver is his performance at a kart meeting in February at Shenington. Having jumped the start, Oliver was relegated to the back of the grid, but proceeded to take the win with some very classy overtaking manoeuvres. It showed dedication and tenacity.

... my video he was watching there btw

McLaren signed Rowland, Honda signed Stevens, and RedBull were sniffing around a driver I know well. I know of others too

If drivers are getting signed in KARTING to F1 teams... surely then karting is the REAL motorsport... and the car bit in between is just learning how to change gears?

In fact I would go as far as to say that if F1 teams were BRAVE enough their are several kart drivers today that would be ABSOLUTELY fine in a F1 car! But the level of risk is quite clear for the F1 teams...

btw the way you assume every drivers want to move to F1 one day yet I doubt you have spoken to any high level karters