The reasons the towers came down is simple. The OUTER wall was the structural part of the building. Each floor in the WTC was hung on the outer walls.
Once the integrity of the structure was compromised and one floor fell it caused the shocking but stunning almost perfect collapse of the building. Each floor faling to the lower one causing a chain reaction.
BTW: For those without knowledge of flying big jets. It is not acctually that hard. Landing takes a bit but to keep one in the air and fly into a big object it is VERY VERY simple.
This comes from someone with 100s of hours in commercial grade ($10,000,000+) full motion 737 & 747 sims. I used to work on them and I used to find plenty of "bugs" in my software that needed lots of sim time to "test" lol
No, it's called scientific methodology. The process one goes through faced with something a bit new or different and a desire to attempt to understand it. We did it was gravity (things fell, buy why?), we did it was radioactivity (this plate changes colour over night when left with this funny material?), we did it with millions of other things.
People don't go "oh, that's new. We'll just ignore that then". It's not human nature as it has evolved.
Again, maybe true, BUT, within an hour for that to happen, littlle too soon for building suposedly built for 707 hit? And how do people explain explosions witnessed and heard by hundreds of people prior and during the colapses, and also smoke coming from the bottom of the buildings, i didn't know jet fuel can melt 100 flores like they're made from butter...
Can't be arsed to read em myself tbh, but, thing is, with every single theory put forward by conspiratorialists, there are always just as many debunking claims made highlighting the various errors in these theories. And the consipratorialists don't like it, so they try to debunk the debunkers, then the debunkers retaliate and try to debunk the debunkers who debunked their debunkings (,,:schwitzand so it goes on and on and on. And all you end up with is opposing groups of people endlessly arguing with each other and achieving absolutely nothing.
With regards to those in here looking for answers, i'd suggest, don't go into this with any pre-conceived ideas. Research both sides of the arguement as thoroughly as you can before making your decision on what you believe. Don't just take one persons opinion as gospel truth, especially not someone who wants to sell you a book or a DVD, something that so many of these "Truthers" seem to be doing these days.
For the record, only the last stuff, about it's being a plot by Dick Cheney, included some sense of sarcasm. The point is, that one's general attitude toward the event (including, being opposed to the Iraq war, or George Bush or Dick Cheney, generally) can affect one's regard to what "facts" are significant or, perhaps, intentionally ignored or "covered up." Generally, I tend to think that investigators made the best sense out of what they regarded as being significant, at the time (including, btw, Osama bin Laden's claiming of responsibility for the attack, and knowledge about the hijackers), which may be different from what one may later regard, in hindsight, to have been possibly significant and overlooked (or even, "covered up"). People are still arguing about whether the Moon landings were a conspiratorial hoax and, in some cases, have a whole bunch of "facts" to invoke in support of their opinions.
And BTW, bin Laden had a record of attacking America, whereas Dick Cheney did not.
No, they didn't included burning fuel into the equation. Here's a documentary explaining how it couldn't have been a demolition job. It includes an interview with the guy who designed the Towers http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2873871255585611926
I could go on posting site after site, debunking claim after debunking claim, but, if you want to remain impartial as i mentioned in my above post, then go check-out all the debunking sites that counter all your conspiracy sites yourself.
Yunno, after the "God Thread" it's becoming very clear to me that the religion of choice for the 21st century ain't really Christianity or Islam, it's Conspiracy Theory and Global Warming.....
Anyone think the Moon Landings were faked ? or, are we really are being visited by little green men from Mars, and if so, just exactly what role did they play in 9/11 ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcxo_UntbYA
I don't really have much opinion on the cause of the towers collapsing, especially after reading nearly everything in this thread. Imho there are compelling thoeries both for and against the official explanation that jet fuel fire triggered the collapse of WTC 1 & 2.
What sets alarm bells ringing is what happened after the attacks.
Dubya sat in a Florida primary school for nearly quarter of an hour after being told that the US was under attack. He's the president of the United States. Why wasn't he bundled into his armoured limo and whisked off to a command & control centre? The authorities couldn't account for many, many aircraft for a good while after the first impact, which led to the grounding of every flight in the US. So who knew that the Florida airspace was safe, and that Dubya was safe to sit there? there was absolutely no panic or urgency to get him out of that room and onto Air Force 1 and into safety.
Then there's the issue of the Air National Guard. Put simply, what the hell was happening? Andrews Air Force base is only ten miles from the Pentagon, and not a single jet scrambled. IIRC, the two (2!) aircraft responsible for covering the entire eastern seaboard were off playing wargames elsewhere with no weapons attached, and in the end the fighters circling New York had travelled from the southern states or the Midwest (this is only based on my memory, so please correct me if I'm wrong on this). But isn't it a bit odd that not one plane could be scrambled from Andrews throughout the events of 11/9?
There's so many other questions. Why, when every aircraft in the US was grounded, were the Bin Ladens allowed to fly out of the country in secrecy?
Why was the debris trucked away from "ground zero" and never examined or anyone allowed near it?
Why did Dubya refuse to testify in front of the investigative commission, and only answered selected questions when sat alongside Cheney? What was there to hide? Why was the govt unco-operative and unwilling in many aspects of the 11/9 investigation?
And most of all, is it really a coincidence that the two wars that followed, directly benefitted in a fairly huge way the corporations that members of Dubya's govt were previously involved in?
That's a good vid, but no one's here answering the simple questions, what's with that terrorists passports and documents found intact on the street, what's with the Pentagon, where's the plane, why's there no video material, what's with that 5 frame video showing just the blast, what's with building 7, why do the 9/11 comision guys act like pure amateurs and why their book doesn't give answers to many many questions. Maybe WTC's DID collapse just by plain strike and flames, but who was flying them, who are the passengers on those planes, are their names ever reveiled, have their families confirmed that they were on those flights?
It was DESIGNED to withstand the subsequent fire, but unfortunately it was NOT built that way. They wanted to save money, and one of the ways was to not apply fireproofing in the way the designers had intended. So when you say they were DESIGNED to withstand the impact and fire, you are absolutely correct.
My Subaru was DESIGNED to protect the front passenger in the event of a head on collision with an airbag. We originally bought it two years used, and one of the things we've always wondered is whether or not the airbag canister is actually THERE, because the soft padding on the dash is slightly bulged up as if someone pried open the cover over the air bag and stole it. They're worth $1,000. So, sure, the car might be DESIGNED to protect the passenger, but if a collision happens now, it is likely that the passenger will suffer more injuries than Subaru would have expected. Does that make sense?
And cellphone use in this plane ( flight 93 ) is also interesting, especially as the ability to use cellphones in planes has only been possible since 2006 at the earliest.
You pose these questions as if there were some mystery. There is no mystery there. We know who flew the planes, we know who was on the planes, and yes the families have lost their loved ones.
And before, for me.
Until the 2nd plane hit, none of us had any idea that an attack was underway. It was a question that was posed but an answer was completely unknown. As soon as the 2nd plane hit, we had that sudden and very uncomfortable realisation. I agree that it doesn't sit right, but he repeated the same behaviour of inaction for a long time after the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina. Obviously the two are not linked but it hints, to me at last, more at the character of Bush and some short-falls and/or inadequacies in domestic security control/management. I can't help feeling that, if he had known that the attacks were going to happen, Bush would have also had a well-planned strategy for faking giving a shit.
This also smacks of a lack of preparation. Despite the policy of exuding confidence prior to 9/11, I think there had been a fundamental failure to perceive the threat. Firstly, nobody imagined that anyone would attack with the intention of dying in the process (a foolish short-fall in disaster preparation, IMO, but there nevertheless) and secondly, nobody anticipated an air attack from domestic airliners, coming from domestic locations. The US's defence systems were all facing outwards, not inwards. Another problem with the Pentagon plane is the fact that the Whitehouse, Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, Capitol and the Pentagon are all very much on flight paths or stacking paths for Washington National/Reagan a/p. Filtering out the traffic being landed from the traffic destined to plough into buildings would have been impossible, even with a full hours notice. There were thousands of aircraft in the air, and the mission was to get them all on the ground ASAP, to their nearest airports.
I'm not familiar with that one. I have some reading to do.
I rank this a 2/10 on the suspicious scale. The debris, in places, was hot and hazardous to life. There were also believed/hoped to be pockets where survivors may have been. In order to reach those pockets, a scheme of URGENT debris removal was put in place.
Firefighters worked tirelessly for a long time, determined to maintain a mission of rescue, rather than recovery, and the firefighters refused to accept the move from rescue to recovery for a long time. In a rescue mission you simply don't have consideration for anything other than clearing out the crap ASAP to get to the survivors. They moved the debris out to Staten Island, mostly, where items that were deemed of interest or importannce by phorensic teams were held aside for examination, and the rest went to landfill or recycling.
Additionally, the contractors employed to move the debris were not security-oriented. I wanted to go, myself, to help. Many people did. There was nothing suspicious or underhanded, or secretive about the people working on clearing the site to find survivors.
Yes, this is a great big red flag for me too. Massive.
No question. Bush, Cheney and others are mammoth beneficiaries from these wars. This isn't even theory, it's very clear fact.
These are the more broad questions that need attention, and all the little conspiracy theories about thermite and WTC7 just get in the way of.
Here's what I make of it. You have it debunked, but you still gravitate to it. You regurgitate the crap that you're told, even after you've been shown that these people are deliberately misleading you. You're a true believer.
I'll give your statement a good poke: Firstly, the guy said HE BELIEVED it could take multiple strikes. He did NOT say, in that video, that it was designed to do so. It was designed to take one hit. Get that?
Secondly, he describes an aircraft hitting the WTC as a pencil. However, WE ALL know that it is actually like an axe, because we've seen the pictures. Get that?
Lastly, WHO told him to shut up? Do you HAVE proof that he was told to shut up? On what basis WAS he told to shut up? Was he told to shut up because he was talking BOLLOCKS? Prove it. You've stated it, now back it up.
I've used a cellphone on a plane before (and got bollocked for it) but it worked.
Or are you saying that they couldn't use a cellphone on Flight 93 because you're not ALLOWED to? Even on a plane where the pilots have been murdered and the flight attendants are busy calling their own families. WHO was going to tell ANYONE that cellphone use was not permitted. COME ON!!!
[edit] The plane was not flying at 30,000 feet. 2 phonecalls were made from cellphones. All the other calls were made from airphones. Yes, airphones. If you think they're new, go watch Die Hard II FFS.
Well thats all very good, however....how old do you reckon that guy is ? late 30's mid 40's ? The Twin Towers were designed in the 1960's and completed in the 70's, so Is this guy the Dougie Hauser of the architects industry ?
Basically, he's far to young to be THE designer.
But, this is simply going down the road mentioned in my previous posts, the conspirators say one thing, the debunkers debunk it, the conspirators debunk the debunkers and so on and so on.
Lol, i'm not sure how you managed it, but i'm sure you've put more questions in that post than the number of words
As far as the Pentagon issue is concerned, i posted a couple of websites about this earlier in the thread (i'll edit this post when i find them)
As to the remote controlled planes, well, yeah it's possible, but then the question of what do you do with the legitimate passengers comes up (yes they were all real passengers who had families and loved ones, and yes they did make numerous phone calls from the planes) Either they're ALL part of the plot and are now living on a desert island somewhere in the lap of luxury or they're at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean. However, passenger DNA samples WHERE found at both the Pentagon and the crash site of Flight 93, and they DID correspond with the passenger lists of those two planes. Obviously it would be next to impossible to find any DNA samples from the passengers in the planes that hit the Twin Towers. But i'm sure there are website out there explaining why the planes couldn't have been remote control (but i'll let you go find them, i can't be bothered to be honest )
P.S Bloody hell guys, this thread suddenly shot into life, it's getting hard to keep track of everything when a dozen posts suddenly appear when i'm writting only one of mine
quote=SamH;780870]You pose these questions as if there were some mystery. There is no mystery there. We know who flew the planes, we know who was on the planes, and yes the families have lost their loved ones.
[/quote]
Except that none of the hijackers were on the passenger lists, yet somehow they manage to be named within 48 hours.
quote=SamH;780870]
Until the 2nd plane hit, none of us had any idea that an attack was underway. It was a question that was posed but an answer was completely unknown. As soon as the 2nd plane hit, we had that sudden and very uncomfortable realisation. I agree that it doesn't sit right, but he repeated the same behaviour of inaction for a long time after the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina. Obviously the two are not linked but it hints, to me at last, more at the character of Bush and some short-falls and/or inadequacies in domestic security control/management. I can't help feeling that, if he had known that the attacks were going to happen, Bush would have also had a well-planned strategy for faking giving a shit.
[/quote]
The US Secret Service is charged with protecting the president, yet they leave him in an unprotected enviroment for 40 min after the first attack, despite the fact that his location was public information. - I'm still waiting for an inquiry into the gross breach of security !!!
quote=SamH;780870]This also smacks of a lack of preparation. Despite the policy of exuding confidence prior to 9/11, I think there had been a fundamental failure to perceive the threat. Firstly, nobody imagined that anyone would attack with the intention of dying in the process (a foolish short-fall in disaster preparation, IMO, but there nevertheless) and secondly, nobody anticipated an air attack from domestic airliners, coming from domestic locations. The US's defence systems were all facing outwards, not inwards. Another problem with the Pentagon plane is the fact that the Whitehouse, Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, Capitol and the Pentagon are all very much on flight paths or stacking paths for Washington National/Reagan a/p. Filtering out the traffic being landed from the traffic destined to plough into buildings would have been impossible, even with a full hours notice. There were thousands of aircraft in the air, and the mission was to get them all on the ground ASAP, to their nearest airports.
[/quote]
Gee, thats strange as that was the excercise that was being carried out at the exact time of the attacks. As another bizarre coincidence, exactly the same was the case with the 7/7 London attacks. Isn't coincidence a wonderful thing ..............
Any mathmaticians care to work out the odd's on both occuring at the same time ??????
well yeah, because all those questions doesn't have a logical answer... oh, and i forgot about the Flight 93, what the hell, where is the freakin plane there?
That should answer the issue with the passengers lists.
Quote "these lists (that conspirators use) are not passenger manifests, but lists of victims, and hence include an implicit rationale for excluding alleged hijackers."
@Boris, to all intents and purposes the plane disintegrated. It hit the ground almost head on (90 degrees) and left a huge plane shaped crater in the ground Some debris including human remains were thrown clear in the impact (one of the engines was found about 1000 yards away, i think ?) but the black box and other debris was later found buried many feet below the surface of the crater (some as deep as 40ft down )
Again, there's so much stuff on the net about this, it's well worth checking out.
,:schwitz
and so it goes on and on and on. And all you end up with is opposing groups of people endlessly arguing with each other and achieving absolutely nothing. 
