Oh no, however will I be able to move on. The high and mighty Tristan says the world hates me......:rolleyes:
I know some very pleasant, likeable, and clever people from the UK, and a few of them even have white teeth!
9/11 Conspiracy Theories - How the Towers Fell
(1218 posts, started )
Oh no, however will I be able to move on. The high and mighty Tristan says the world hates me......:rolleyes:
I know some very pleasant, likeable, and clever people from the UK, and a few of them even have white teeth!
That in itself is also a tragedy, but there are conspiracy stories surrounding Africa, which also happen to include the US Government and the Bush administration.
The saying "One death is a tragedy, but a million deaths are a statistic" by Joseph Stalin comes to mind.
The Holocaust. Tragedy? Or statistic? books would have you believe it was the single most horrific tragedy ever to occur in the history of the world.
Will the deaths of ten thousand innocent Iraqi civilians be considered a tragedy as well? Or will they be written down as a statistic, because after all history is written by the victors. And as we all know, the victor in this Iraq "Liberation" war were the Americans. Only time will tell.
So many anger and insults here... sorry for posting! Keep it up.
David Ray Griffen says..
'We are also told that the bodies were able to be identified either by their fingerprints or DNA, so what kind of fire can vaporise aluminium and tempered steel and yet leave human bodies intact?'
And then Wally Miller (coroner) says, straight afterwards
"I stopped being Coroner, because there were no bodies there".
"I have not to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop".
That's weird.
'We are also told that the bodies were able to be identified either by their fingerprints or DNA, so what kind of fire can vaporise aluminium and tempered steel and yet leave human bodies intact?'
And then Wally Miller (coroner) says, straight afterwards
"I stopped being Coroner, because there were no bodies there".
"I have not to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop".
That's weird.
Generalisations are the domain of lesser-thinkers, IMO. Those are spread far and wide around the world. Just as Americans like flymike hate Palestinians because a minority of them take up armed resistance, many people in the world look at the actions of successive US administrations and perceive that ALL the Americans are wicked, evil oppressors. After all, they elect and re-elect these tyrants, right?
Unfortunately most foreign nationals don't understand the severity of the problem in the US, particularly in regards to the biased contamination in the media, and actually think that American citizens are willing party to the US's foreign policy. The truth, in fact, is far different. Most Americans have absolutely no idea what the US government is doing now, or what it has done in the past. Sadly, internationally, the loudest American voice today is that of the neo-con. It would be difficult for the rest of the world to do anything but despise that ideology, and so the over-generalised hatred is perhaps inevitable.
However, I have to say Tristan that if you really do generalise like you say, then you're not applying your grey matter at all well. That's unfortunate, because a lot of us paid handsomely for that education of yours and we hate to see our money go to waste.
I have an advantage over most non-US nationals because I lived in the US for a few years, I was at O'Hare airport that day and experienced 9/11 as all parents of American children did. I picked up my kids early from school lock-down, with no answers for them at all. I shared the anger and the confusion, I wanted to nuke Afghanistan like everyone else did in the days that followed. All that anger, and nowhere to direct it. We didn't understand about the Taliban, we just were given the name and location of a guy called "Osama Bin Laden", and told to blame him.
I asked the question that all Americans asked.. "why do they hate us so much!?" and in those days I had no idea that there even IS an answer. There is.. but it's almost completely inaccessible in the US - 100% obscured in the popular media, in fact. I didn't start getting answers from the media until I stopped searching for it in the US media. Most Americans still don't know there IS a perfectly clear answer to that question and they'll take any answer they're given. Even Bush's completely bogus "They hate us for our freedoms", which the rest of the world knows without a shadow of doubt is complete and utter bollocks.
There is no question in my mind that there is a conspiracy. Probably several. I believe this, based on evidence that I can see for myself - political posturing, evidence of policy, corruption etc. That doesn't mean that I believe that any of the WTC buildings were demolished by nuclear charges or any such stupid nonsense, and I am very irritated by those lame conspiracy theories because they just cause furring, and irritation, and a certain weariness that stops normally reasonable thinkers from asking the questions that could actually bring some answers.
Unfortunately most foreign nationals don't understand the severity of the problem in the US, particularly in regards to the biased contamination in the media, and actually think that American citizens are willing party to the US's foreign policy. The truth, in fact, is far different. Most Americans have absolutely no idea what the US government is doing now, or what it has done in the past. Sadly, internationally, the loudest American voice today is that of the neo-con. It would be difficult for the rest of the world to do anything but despise that ideology, and so the over-generalised hatred is perhaps inevitable.
However, I have to say Tristan that if you really do generalise like you say, then you're not applying your grey matter at all well. That's unfortunate, because a lot of us paid handsomely for that education of yours and we hate to see our money go to waste.
I have an advantage over most non-US nationals because I lived in the US for a few years, I was at O'Hare airport that day and experienced 9/11 as all parents of American children did. I picked up my kids early from school lock-down, with no answers for them at all. I shared the anger and the confusion, I wanted to nuke Afghanistan like everyone else did in the days that followed. All that anger, and nowhere to direct it. We didn't understand about the Taliban, we just were given the name and location of a guy called "Osama Bin Laden", and told to blame him.
I asked the question that all Americans asked.. "why do they hate us so much!?" and in those days I had no idea that there even IS an answer. There is.. but it's almost completely inaccessible in the US - 100% obscured in the popular media, in fact. I didn't start getting answers from the media until I stopped searching for it in the US media. Most Americans still don't know there IS a perfectly clear answer to that question and they'll take any answer they're given. Even Bush's completely bogus "They hate us for our freedoms", which the rest of the world knows without a shadow of doubt is complete and utter bollocks.
There is no question in my mind that there is a conspiracy. Probably several. I believe this, based on evidence that I can see for myself - political posturing, evidence of policy, corruption etc. That doesn't mean that I believe that any of the WTC buildings were demolished by nuclear charges or any such stupid nonsense, and I am very irritated by those lame conspiracy theories because they just cause furring, and irritation, and a certain weariness that stops normally reasonable thinkers from asking the questions that could actually bring some answers.
Does that mean that you're going to examine the source you were so keen to offer as proof or not?
Right on, Sam.
Damn right that Sam,
I have respect for Americans, as they respect there own country. Over here you hardly see any flags, it was St Georges yesterday and i still hardly seen any, maybe thats because i live in Bradford (dont want any riots kicking off lol).
The American nation is one which is very patriotic and powerfull. Just a shame that the government haven't used that opportunity to help and heal rather than death and destruction.
I believe that there is deffinatly something very sinister about this whole event, but one that you could not solve or come to a deffinate conclusion, by using a forum as research.
I have respect for Americans, as they respect there own country. Over here you hardly see any flags, it was St Georges yesterday and i still hardly seen any, maybe thats because i live in Bradford (dont want any riots kicking off lol).
The American nation is one which is very patriotic and powerfull. Just a shame that the government haven't used that opportunity to help and heal rather than death and destruction.
I believe that there is deffinatly something very sinister about this whole event, but one that you could not solve or come to a deffinate conclusion, by using a forum as research.
I couldnt agree more. I hate the way we are seen across the globe, it is quite sad really. Most of the people that I talk to everyday are good people who want nothing more than to live peacefully and provide for their familys. I dont see us as any diffrent than any other citizen of any other country, we just have a f*cked up government which does not provide a good representation of our countrys people, which is one of the reasons sweeping generalizations, such as Tristans, bug me so much. But with Tristan, I just try and consider the source.
I wouldnt be suprised if the government had something to do with 9/11 (well, I know they had something to do with it, even if it were nothing more than our foreign policys).
When all else fails, I blame G.W.
I don't think Sam's admiring how patriotic and powerful Americans are. Anyway I hope not 
Anyway, (in difference to Sam- edit: or wait, are we agreeing?) I'd say perhaps 95% of all the media about Americans actually comes out of America (good, bad or otherwise), so if the world is receiving a particular image, it's mainly because Americans themselves are projecting it.
Anyway, (in difference to Sam- edit: or wait, are we agreeing?) I'd say perhaps 95% of all the media about Americans actually comes out of America (good, bad or otherwise), so if the world is receiving a particular image, it's mainly because Americans themselves are projecting it.
WRT my post #219, above, I thought of a simpler experiment, which would be to consider a piece of steel, independently, raised to some initial height and then allowed to free-fall and convert its potential energy into absorbed heat, to see if that would be sufficient to melt it.
Since not knowing the type of steel, I used some approximations for heat capacity (475J/[kg*deg.C]) and melting temperature (1370deg.C).
In order to completely melt a mass of steel, it would need to be dropped from a height of ~65km. If it were dropped from a height of ~400m (the height of the WTC tower), this would be sufficient to melt ~0.61% of its mass. Again, note that these numbers neglect air friction and assume free-fall (and, indeed, the whole consideration is a simplified estimate).
The calculation is:
M*g*h=m*C*deltaT (gravitational potential energy=absorbed heat energy)
(where M=initial mass and m=melted mass, g=gravitational acceleration=9.8m/s^2, h=initial height, C=heat capacity, deltaT=change in temperature [I used 1350deg.C, assuming 20deg.C as initial temperature])
Since not knowing the type of steel, I used some approximations for heat capacity (475J/[kg*deg.C]) and melting temperature (1370deg.C).
In order to completely melt a mass of steel, it would need to be dropped from a height of ~65km. If it were dropped from a height of ~400m (the height of the WTC tower), this would be sufficient to melt ~0.61% of its mass. Again, note that these numbers neglect air friction and assume free-fall (and, indeed, the whole consideration is a simplified estimate).
The calculation is:
M*g*h=m*C*deltaT (gravitational potential energy=absorbed heat energy)
(where M=initial mass and m=melted mass, g=gravitational acceleration=9.8m/s^2, h=initial height, C=heat capacity, deltaT=change in temperature [I used 1350deg.C, assuming 20deg.C as initial temperature])
There is a big diffrence between American's and the American media. Spend some time over here, get to know a few people and then form your opinions about the average American, rather than basing your judgements on a 5 minute newscast.
I was watching the news last night and saw that an alien aircraft had landed somewhere in Sweeden. That must be true if it were on the news, right?
Nah, it was just the finnish defence forces testing our new stealth squid eliminator (it eliminates stealth squids)
Tbh, I think we are just as bad as europeans as the us people are when you are dealing with mass medias etc.. The picture an average european has of american is based largely on tv shows, not even news
So we get the hillibilly/beverly hills/evil christian picture burned down into our minds since we learn to watch tv.
I wasn't refering to Sams post when i said that i admire and respect the American people. Although it looks like it, its just my bad English, and sentancing.
I was agreeing that the American media project/ cover-up the real world to most Americans, as do the BBC (to a extent) and most other media corporations. But so do Middle eastern media such as Al jazeera (sp?), but who ever control's the media you have one of the biggest weapons there. The Internet is the only place you can find the truth, if you have the sources that is.
That wasn't really my point (at th84). I try not to have hard opinions about Americans (or citizens from other countries) because I haven't met all that many (though I did spend some time in Turkey). I certainly think that someone hating 'Americans' or the French or whoever says more about that person than the group of people they're attacking.
I meant that Americans, through (some) American media atleast, seem very critical of America. I really don't see the repression of alternate views and such that American media is usually made out to be. I mean, you guys invented TV, the internet. You can say whatever you like on the internet. And For that I'm quite thankful.
I meant that Americans, through (some) American media atleast, seem very critical of America. I really don't see the repression of alternate views and such that American media is usually made out to be. I mean, you guys invented TV, the internet. You can say whatever you like on the internet. And For that I'm quite thankful.
My apologies, I mis-understood you. 
Well, I'm not sure quite what you mean by "neocon," but certainly, such information sources as you (and others) have called "neocon" (e.g. - Frontpagemag, WND and Fox News) are quite new, and are indeed, regarded as heretical (and thus, I suppose, arguably "contamination") by what used to be the main television networks, newspapers and magazines.
Evidently, you've not read or heard the many speeches and writings, by many Muslim clerics, alluding to the "blasphemy that is democracy" and especially, condemning Iraqis for embracing such heresy, and advocating the establishment of universally supreme, Sharia law, as a replacement for all other political systems. Perhaps you are, instead, inclined to regard any purported existence of such sentiments, to be "biased contamination" of correct, mainstream understanding, inasmuch as being "neocon" conspiring or mere stupidity.[/quote]
I'll wait until you've edited some sense into your post, David.
[edit] Oh, sorry.. I just realised that you were actually just giving another example of small-minded, over-generalised crap! I do apologise, David. Thank you for illustrating my point about stupidity associated with over-generalisation so effectively.
[edit] Oh, sorry.. I just realised that you were actually just giving another example of small-minded, over-generalised crap! I do apologise, David. Thank you for illustrating my point about stupidity associated with over-generalisation so effectively.
Just to clarify things for many people - I certainly don't hate anyone, particualy an entire country on the basis of what elements of it's government does.
All people are members of the same family and should be treated with the same love and respect. This is a view that some other people could try adopting, it might lead to a more pleasant planet.
I do take exception to people being murdered or mistreated, especially simply to make another human richer or give them more control over other people.
My point regarding the molten metal still stands, can anyone come up with an explanation as to why there was molten metal for that period of time, the 911 Commission ignored the fact, jet fuel is too cool to melt that much steel and the buildings didn't fall for 65km.
I'm sure that there's a rational, scientific explanation that accounts for a source of heat that created this, my theory may be outside the square but it will create this.
Anyone want to try a scientific explanation using the official theory ?
All people are members of the same family and should be treated with the same love and respect. This is a view that some other people could try adopting, it might lead to a more pleasant planet.
I do take exception to people being murdered or mistreated, especially simply to make another human richer or give them more control over other people.
My point regarding the molten metal still stands, can anyone come up with an explanation as to why there was molten metal for that period of time, the 911 Commission ignored the fact, jet fuel is too cool to melt that much steel and the buildings didn't fall for 65km.
I'm sure that there's a rational, scientific explanation that accounts for a source of heat that created this, my theory may be outside the square but it will create this.
Anyone want to try a scientific explanation using the official theory ?
I think beavis and butthead said it best..." FIRE FIRE"!
Well, again, I am not sure what you mean by "over-generalizing." Perhaps it is that I have apparently overgeneralized about your own sentiments, based upon what has seemed to be your inclination to respond to any of my comments, on such matters, by simply calling me a stupid (or "faking it") "neocon" (and similarly characterizing any similar source of information).
Nevertheless, it seems to me that pretty much any statement about the world and its circumstances, is likely to be a generalization. If it is an overgeneralization, then a useful approach is to examine it for what is specifically true, and what is excessive inference. This is not accomplished by simply dismissing it entirely (and insultingly) as "stupid," or "small-minded," or "neocon," or such.
Neither do I overgeneralize about Muslims, as I have previously described that I (and others) quite recognize that there is a distinction between aggressive Muslims, and those who are not. But neither do I ignore my observations of aggressive Muslims, or suppose that they are of negligible significance, or that others who regard them as significant, are stupid and such (including an assertion that their representation of their concern, is "complete and utter bollocks").
The visible universe is 28 billion light years wide but only 14 billion years old. How is it then that the microwave background radiation throughout the entire universe is the same temperature? Radiation can only travel at the speed of light, so surely it cannot have leveled out yet...
...does that mean that the universe doesn't exist? No. It means that there are still some things that we can't explain. I guess you COULD argue that the universe therefore cannot exist, but there are so many other reasons to believe that it DOES exist that it's far more likely that it's just due to a phenomena that has not yet been uncovered. That's all.
Perhaps, in the ENTIRE 110 stories of the WTC, there were two chemicals that, when combined, form an uber-dark-matter-energy-envelope that can sustain heat for years. Who knows?
As I stated, the steel would need to be dropped 65km, to melt ALL of it. Dropping it from the height of the WTC tower, would (acting by itself) likely melt about 1% of it. Can you quantify how much of it was, in fact, melted?
Also, I provided two possible explanations of why it might remain liquid - including, lowered melting point as a consequence of mixing with non-steel materials, and being in a circumstance that would provide thermal insulation to prevent it from cooling enough to solidify.
And I thought my theory was outside the square - lol
Anyone else, after all, my theory will create this without calling in uber-dark-matter-energy-envelopes
. Lot's of people here believe the official theory, how does jet fuel which burns at 1500 degree's under perfect conditions, which certainly didn't exist in the towers, manage to melt steel and keep it molten for over 6 weeks.Also remember that the same molten steel was found at Building 7 and according to NIST that was brought down by diesel fuel ( Although even they admit that this theory has a low probability !!! )
It would have been great if someone had done this, remember that all the steel was shipped out without permitting any testing or measurements of anything.
After all, as people have pointed out, nothing like this had ever happened before so I guess it was felt that there was no need to find out what had happened.
This I presume is 'best practice' when it comes to inquiries ?
9/11 Conspiracy Theories - How the Towers Fell
(1218 posts, started )
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