Well if a car is flipped, totally wrecked so it can't move or gets outside the race-track (the only cases where you retire in IGTC), you'd have to retire in rl as well. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

In an endurance race a DNF is classified usually as a car blow out or any other form of terminal damage. If engines could be replaced then they would be, but the rules do not allow that, the same way our rules do not allow a car to rejoin after flipping over. Thats just how it is. This only hurt 1 car, the same way the early restart hurt one car. The restart was to aid the majority of the field and prevent another incident.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

edit: I don't know if that was a typo or what, but there is no relationship between LOTA and IGTC, Nolan.

Sorry about that.

Starting to have a problem here.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

The 3id car got more flexibility because the error was on the admins' end.

Being out of a race is not a flexible rule. It's been a rule of all racing since the dawn of the automobile.

If you're seriously incapable of getting it at this point, I'm losing interest in helping you.

You seriously don't think this is a sim and needs to be fun? edit: OK guess there needs to be another series then.

Quote from Gil07 :

Well if a car is flipped, totally wrecked so it can't move or gets outside the race-track (the only cases where you retire in IGTC), you'd have to retire in rl as well. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

That made sense. The problem is that if it was in real life, he wouldn't of been punted outside of the track. I've never seen a real life GTR car punted of the track and flipped because of getting hit during a yellow flag. Real life physics don't allow for that. LFS physics however do allow for that. There in lies the problem. The point is that it's not real life, and we (collectively) have to account for that. They should of allowed the car to re-enter the track and get their damage fixed and start at the back. Then they could of given the penalty. Everybody wins and wouldn't be here now.

At any rate, DWB is obviously irritated that people are here arguing this and it's making his authority feel challenged so I'm going to step out and I wish you all the best of luck.

Well, if we want to get into rejoining too because "someone" wasn't awake, we could go back to the previous round where I got lag-punted to universe after an incident happened in front of me, that I slowed down to avoid, but people behind me were less aware. Did I complain at the time "ADMINS LULZ, LEMME REJOIN PLZPLZPLZ"? No and I still won't whine about it, it was a racing incident that sadly was terminal to our cars efforts.

We're playing an (incomplete) simulator, some bugs will affect us, especially with such a range of people lag will sometimes be a bitch, I do think though that the fly2universe bug should permit a rejoin (with 1 lap penalty/ 3 min?) but that's my opinion.

Sometimes people make mistakes, but it's really not the fault of anyone. Anyways, isn't the reason we're doing all this to have some fun racing in an extended length event? I still don't know what happened to the 3id car last race, anyone mind refreshing my memory?

Failed to serve a SG pentalty before the 3-lap window expired, pentalty was not escalted into 45-second SC.

Quote from nmanley :

You seriously don't think this is a sim and needs to be fun? edit: OK guess there needs to be another series then.

It really sounds like you either haven't been paying attention to the form of racing this series has used for the past year and a half, or feel that it should be changed to benefit you whenever something doesn't go your way.

Neither is really acceptable for a serious competitor in this series.

Dustin, getting punted at 150mph in the heat of things racing is a far cry different then getting punted under yellow at 50mph. And for the record I don't believe anyone on our team has ever talked like a script kiddie.

I didn't imply that any of you talked that way, I was just using an overdramatic example.

Guys, I think we all need to step back though and remember that this is just for fun. Are we competing for multi-million dollar sponsorship deals? Fancy haircuts? Large breasted latina women? No, we're doing this because we enjoy racing, particularly endurance racing.

If you guys really feel so badly about this situation, cast your minds back to last season at FE3 and what happened to F1RST racing. They were leading, someone else crashed, they got punted into the sky because of almost identical reasons. Show me a post with them acting in the same manner as your team right now. After all i thought this was about the short SC rather than your team being punted off track by someone else and you guys not getting over the fact that the seriousness of the incident is on a much different scale.

Benji - manner. I don't think they acted in the same mansion.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

....or feel that it should be changed to benefit you whenever something doesn't go your way.

I guess on a positive note, you guys feel the same way about each other.

Hello Pot, I'm Mr. Kettle.

Quote from rcpilot :

Mainly, this talk of bias has got to go. DWB isn't the only one who makes decisions, and these admins volunteer 5 hours of their weekend to help run this thing giving up their ability to have fun driving for their respective teams. At some point, a decision has to be made and feel free to argue with the decision, but don't outright harass admins that are just here to help. Hell, if you want to just spy on us during the race, come on the vent server and watch as dwb comes out of the admin channel and says hello for a few seconds 2-3 times a race (and we transmit secret messages to eachother via mic switching morse code).

Agreed and thanks for your feelings.

Quote from BenjiMC :

If you guys really feel so badly about this situation, cast your minds back to last season at FE3 and what happened to F1RST racing. They were leading, someone else crashed, they got punted into the sky because of almost identical reasons.

So because they chose not to argue then nobody should?

Quote from BenjiMC :

Show me a post with them acting in the same manor as your team right now.

That seems a bit derogatory......

Quote from BenjiMC :

After all i thought this was about the short SC rather than your team being punted off track by someone else and you guys not getting over the fact that the seriousness of the incident is on a much different scale.

It is about that, which is also about the other. It is about both because one moment you can't change rules no matter what, then all of a sudden you change them when you feel fit.

Damn, all I see anybody asking is that you guys are consistent. They aren't asking for their race back. They are simply asking for consistency. You guys are taking this crap way too personal.

Heck, is anyone gonna call impartiality on one of the Mercury helpers for him helping UKCT during pre-race practice on our setup? Guys, I'm pretty confident in the admins, Ben giving up time on his Vacation (I think?) to admin.

@rcpilot - I'll be sure to go watch Ben going .--. .. - .. -. -. --- .-- during the race, prior to a safety car

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

It really sounds like you either haven't been paying attention to the form of racing this series has used for the past year and a half, or feel that it should be changed to benefit you whenever something doesn't go your way.

Neither is really acceptable for a serious competitor in this series.

I've been paying close attention and that's what got you upset so I will just lose interest now again since you can't be take seriously from past actions.

Quote from S k i p p y :

Damn, all I see anybody asking is that you guys are consistent. They aren't asking for their race back. They are simply asking for consistency. You guys are taking this crap way too personal.

QuotedForTruth

Quote from S k i p p y :

It is about that, which is also about the other. It is about both because one moment you can't change rules no matter what, then all of a sudden you change them when you feel fit.

Damn, all I see anybody asking is that you guys are consistent. They aren't asking for their race back. They are simply asking for consistency. You guys are taking this crap way too personal.

The reasons that the rules were bent in this race (2 lap SC period/3id's extended penalty period) have been covered, so I won't reiterate them here.

The situation with the #30 at FE3 would not have been a case of "bending" a rule; it would have been a case of completely re-structuring the way IGTC racing works to serve the interests of a single team.

The decision to cut short the first SC period benefited 24 teams and disadvantaged 1. The decision to allow the 3id car it's extra laps was an acknowledgment of an admin error.

If you can't see the difference between these and the situation with your car, I don't know what to tell you.

Both the "bent" rules are something that will be looked at in preparation for the subsequent rounds, and every effort will be made to see that they don't come into play again. None of us felt good about them at the time, but in terms of a cost/benefit analysis they were 100% the correct decisions to make.

You may want to stick to a dogmatic, black & white interpretation of how rules will be handled, but the IGTC admins have the right (and will exercise the right) to make these calls when they are needed in unexpected circumstances. After they've been needed, they will be examined and the rules will be changed to keep them from being needed again.

That's always been the way our rules system has evolved.

First of all I don't appreciate your line that implies I may be stupid.

That said, it's not what you did but what you said.

You said in the other circumstance that its a rule and we don't change rules mid season. Then you change rules now. If you can't read what you post, you are beyond help yourself.

Maybe if you had taken the time write such a rule to distinguish what rules you can change and what rules you can't change then you would of avoided all of this in the first place. That's your problem, not mine. You are trying to dig yourself out of a hole.

I told you I wouldn't take sides because I honestly believe that you are doing the best you can with what you have to work with. However, trying to prod me is simply going to piss me off and then I will take sides. Cya.

seems like an S3R vs Admin battle here, both of you (admins and S3R) are just going round in circles mentioning things that have been said and explained countless times throughtout this thread, it puts a dampner on what looked like a very good race (for the majority) Not everyone is going to be happy, but you have to live with it, after all this is the admins league, they decide the rules, some of them are imput from personel on this forum, if they decide to make a fair judgement call, that benefits either most of the runners or a team given an unfair disadvantage (not a racing incident etc) Its shouldn't have as much speculation as is now.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

seems like an S3R vs Admin battle here, both of you (admins and S3R) are just going round in circles mentioning things that have been said and explained countless times throughtout this thread, it puts a dampner on what looked like a very good race (for the majority) Not everyone is going to be happy, but you have to live with it, after all this is the admins league, they decide the rules, some of them are imput from personel on this forum, if they decide to make a fair judgement call, that benefits either most of the runners or a team given an unfair disadvantage (not a racing incident etc) Its shouldn't have as much speculation as is now.

+1
This should be left alone now, imo.

I dunno about you but in other sports I seem to see that the ref's decision is final and someone trying to contest it usually gets into some kind of trouble.

I think, personally, that MAYBE the admins made a wrong decision (not really sure wether or not it was) but making it into such a huge deal isn't really worth it. Imo, you should have simply PM'd the admins telling them that you feel that this was a bad call and it gave you an unfair advantage and ask that the rules are reviewed so that this doesn't happen again. They would probably answer wether or not they think it was a good call and tell you if they reviewed the rules and that's all there is to it. You can't keep on going and ''fighting'' the race admins about this when they clearly gave they're opinion. Imo, once again.

I honestly don't get where this question of consistency is coming from. Consistency in what? Comparing my3id's stop & go, tdrt getting screwed by the safety car, your getting hit under the SC at fern bay, us getting hit by TDRT at fern bay, they're all apples and oranges when put together in one big basket. On the other hand, if you look at it this way, the admins making decisions based on making up for their mistakes, and the admins making decisions for the safety of the field, it becomes very consistent. Admins making up for their mistakes, my3id, us & tdrt adjusting the rules post-incident so the penalty's not so outrageous. Admins making decisions for the safety of the field, banning weaving, letting the field go a lap early at ASH. And as you add most incidents and rule changes/clarifications to this they fit neatly into these brackets.

On the other hand, S3R's incident has nothing to do with any of this. You cannot let a car that got knocked out in an accident back in. Simply because there is no viable cutoff point for this. I got spun around at fern bay in a LOTA fo8 season within a split second because I clipped a curb and was then thrown into a wall backwards at 120 mph while leading by 30 seconds, a probable LFS bug. Should I have gotten my lead back? I obviously made a slight mistake but I shouldn't have had to pay for it that harshly. I got thrown over a wall and off the course by clipping a tire at fern bay in the lx6 in a BOTT race in one of the chicanes. I made a small mistake, but an obvious LFS bug made me pay for it dearly, should I have been put back in the race? The truth is, no. There's no saying what would've happened without the help from LFS bugs, and what happened, happened, and at that point it's time to look on to the next race. These cases may be a bit worse than yours in terms of my responsibility, but can you really say that you would've come out well from getting t-boned at 50 mph without the aid of an LFS bug?

Quote from rcpilot :

I'm sorry that the incident last race must've sucked for you, but there's no realistic way to fix it. Some drivers didn't have their game faces on and messed up, and you got caught out in it in the worst possible way. But people get caught out in messes through no fault of their own in racing all the time, all you can really do is hand out a penalty if there's a clear offender and go on. During the penalty discussions someone from S3R cited our incident with TDRT as an example to apply to their incident, ignoring the fact that we got a 5 minute penalty through someone else's actions which speaks highly against what's being discussed here. Although, in this case a rule change was made decreasing the 'stuck penalty' length although the new penalty will still hurt just as much as it originally hurt us in a normal race considering we had a 2nd SC under our penalty. But, in your case no viable rule changes are available. Giving someone back position from an incident on track just never happens outside of minor bumps where the two drivers can easily just swap back, and in this case you got hurt by that more than most.

Mainly, this talk of bias has got to go. DWB isn't the only one who makes decisions, and these admins volunteer 5 hours of their weekend to help run this thing giving up their ability to have fun driving for their respective teams. At some point, a decision has to be made and feel free to argue with the decision, but don't outright harass admins that are just here to help. Hell, if you want to just spy on us during the race, come on the vent server and watch as dwb comes out of the admin channel and says hello for a few seconds 2-3 times a race (and we transmit secret messages to eachother via mic switching morse code).

Very well said Corey. If everyone here presented there positions in the same well thought out and respectful manner this would be a better place.

Sure I feel victimized sometimes, but 24 hours after a race it is behind me and and I look the the next race. Who is up for a little bonding over pizza and beer?

::raises hand::

Anyone bringing root beer for the minors?