migf1, button (manual) clutch, axis clutch and autoclutch is options LFS. Why you "prohibit" use option? In other side axis input clutch also way for macro. Prohibit axis clutch?
Now I see only one way to stop battle "macro problem". Decrease time interval autoclutch on ~50ms if it possible.
Or if the way the autoclutch behaves is corrected so it behaves as you would expect a clutch to behave then the autoclutch will be much more like the button clutch is now and it will all be a somewhat muted discussion as all the AC hotlapers will be able to go faster than they currently can... and using a macro clutch will give only a miniscule advantage while having more risk of bad shifts than the autoclutch so simply want be worth using.
@aIM BLR:
No, no I don't "prohibit" anything (I couldn't even if i wanted to :tilt. What I was trying to say is that now when both CL and AC flags are off, then automatically one becomes supsicious whether the hotlapper has used the macro or not.
@Glenn67:
I agree! I was just referring to the situation as it is right now
That's good too hear I'm kinda hoping this is something that can be fixed quickly, this is pure speculation on my behalf but maybe this is a bug that has krept in when Scawen was working on the sequential gear boxes because I'd be shocked if it was intended behaviour. The pluse side is that for people that use the AC will see improvements in handling and performance
Back in the early days of the internet I used to play an online shooter. The goal was to shoot the other players by left-clicking rapidly with the mouse. Once the fancier mice starting coming out, some people found out they can setup a macro to fire 4-5 shots with a single click. It's not humanly possible to left click as fast as the macro can programatically click. Try it now, see how fast you can click 4 to 5 times. So it's basically a very similar issue to LFS's button clutch. The developers of that game basically modified the software to only allow a click every X milliseconds.
If the LFS devs were to take action on this issue, I would imagine they would do something similar - restricting button clutch so that it can only shift as fast as a human can shift.
i mostly read here about the autoclutch vs macro ...
but is with that cars that not uses autoclutch to shift ?
FBM for exampel , there u need to lift trottel ore press clutch to shift at the upper gears ...
but if i see they can switch from 5th to 6th gear without trottellift . ore it was faster 0,01sec ?
they do alot of things with the macros , so its not to discust the differences betwen macro or autoclutch ,
even by the FBM makes it very big different by shifting .
for that we need a statment from the defs
Just to let you know, now that i have stopped using it and have modified my pedal for shorter travel, i have beat pb's on the two different types of track i have run on since (AS North, FE Green), so as i thought on the fbm it makes you slower, argument for H shifters is still valid though.
This is kinda a case of th proverbial band wagon jumping. Not saying that that was what you where doing Fred when using the macro. My point being that people see this macro/exploit usage as an advantage and immediately start using it. As Fred has just demonstrated, not using the exploit is actually faster . . . .
Now I'm sure fred is actually a very good driver with or without the Exploit, but this does go to show that just because the cheat is there in the community does not necessarily mean that you should use it. So a lesson for those of you who are easily swayed, cheating isn't always the fastest way . . . . .
Now I don't really know enough about all this. I get the impression that I can set my G25 and the FZR to shift faster on the paddles than I can with the H shifter. But, the Spec for the FZR say's it operates a H Shifter. In my mind, that is all part of the balancing act of the GTR class so I wouldn't dream of using my paddles whilst driving the FZR. But were i (heaven forbid) to switch to the FXO with it's sequential box, then I would use that because that is the spec of the car . . .
I Don't really mind people using these 'advantages' so long as it has full disclosure. If you feel the need to hide your advantage (particularly in this area) then you know what you are doing is morally dubious. Like doping in the olympics there are many grey areas, many methods that might look like cheating but on closer inspection arn't actually 'wrong' if only pushing boundaries. Which is what competition is all about.
But at the end of the days any sport is governed by rules, and in effect racing and hotlapping are sports. And as such need a level playing field to allow a fair competition. I know that I will never be the fastest out there but I like to think I'm one of the best of the rest. But any accomplishment I feel is completely negated by the fact that people use exploits . . . .
In fact, on the flip side I think the use of such things should also be allowed in a controlled mannner. Like I have mentioned, full disclosure is key. Any sport needs the 'F1' side of it. The skunk works, The Black Ops that push limits and envelopes and get faster, higher, quicker than anything else. The Devs nees such things to highlight holes in their systems. We all know there are plenty of people out there that really really get of on finding exploits and the like. Let them. But let the community know who they are and have times flagged as such. Don't call it cheating, but don't let the processes into the general racing community unless thoughally vetted by said community.
But at the end of the day. The only person who can really hold you accountable is yourself. If you can't come on here and say what you use then you most probable should not be using it . . . .
Nice post funnybear, i must admit than when the fbm first came out, i made that macro within days, so im maybe the first to use it, but i never acually told anyone about it as i didnt think it was important, so i might of actually been doing it before anyone else
I must point out again, when i go in the small gti etc i just use auto clutch and occationally try full manual clutch, usually with comical consequences
erm... no . Too lazy. My method is much more efficient to finding out the information I'd like to know, without having to waste about 3 minutes of my life, by receiving an instant response
Well if you'd waste 30 seconds of your life by reading the first god damn post then then check the next few informative posts you wouldn't have to look so stupid.
Of course the macro is a blatant cheat, you're using an external program to trick the software into thinking you've done something which you actually haven't done at all, all for a slight (but significant) advantage in acceleration and with no added difficulty and certainly no added realism. There should be some kind of detection in LFS.
Button clutch should have been removed or fixed so it can't be used for quick gear changing a long time ago. If you want to use a clutch use a pedal, if not use autoclutch. It really is that simple and if they'd paid the slightest attention years ago we wouldn't be having this discussion.
PS, when did this LFS forum take over from RSC? Searches only go back to 2005, but I'm sure the move was made before then no?
Forget the macro for a minute, how do you change gears with buttons?
You can hold down the gear up button (doesn't count towards the time it takes to change gear as you can press it well before you need too) then when you are ready you give the clutch button a quick stab.
Walla a gear change faster than a macro can do but it still isn't any faster than using a clutch pedal...
Although the macro is a small part of the problem (being the easiest thing for people to focus on) the main problem is not the macro it is the differences in how the clutch behaves with different methods of changing gears. The clutch pedal and clutch button are far faster because there is a problem with how the autoclutch behaves - no other reason I've proven that as mutch as anyone can without being Scawen imo, if anyone takes the time to read and understand my rather long posts they will see for themselves
Unless an official fix occurs, I beleive all hotlaps with both CL and AC flags being off will not get any respect from the guys who's opinions matter the most in a hotlap competition such as the LFSW Hotlaps.
thanks duck, for all of uze that dont beleive me, think what you like. but i dont use macro clutch, whenever i want to change gears i press the red right hand button on my wheel for the clutch then click the right/left hand paddle. ffs that the last time im saying it
I actually think he is telling the truth. From the graph you posted it is clearly seen that your (AC) clutch operations are all the same, while his differ in times, as far as I know you can't make a macro that varies the time of buttons being pressed randonly on the fly
as all the AC hotlapers will be able to go faster than they currently can... and using a macro clutch will give only a miniscule advantage while having more risk of bad shifts than the autoclutch so simply want be worth using.
. What I was trying to say is that now when both CL and AC flags are off, then automatically one becomes supsicious whether the hotlapper has used the macro or not.
because I'd be shocked if it was intended behaviour. The pluse side is that for people that use the AC will see improvements in handling and performance 
. Too lazy. My method is much more efficient to finding out the information I'd like to know, without having to waste about 3 minutes of my life, by receiving an instant response 
