I think that too much information about setups is available. Fact is that all the setup information is freely available in any raf file anyway, so the Hotlap Analyzer does nothing new in that aspect, just makes the information more accessible.

In my opinion setups should be encrypted in the future.

If you never post a hotlap using the setup you want to protect or give it to someone else who might post a hotlap with it then that setup is safe

Hotlap uploads should be more about the driving rather than the setups imo, setup strategy should be more for league racing. So if you are a league racer and upload hotlaps, only upload a HL with existing and freely available setups and keep your "top secret" setups for your league races. Problem solved

I'm sure some teams would already be doing this

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In my opinion setups should be encrypted in the future.

+100

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Hotlap uploads should be more about the driving rather than the setups imo,

Well it sure isnt like that in the real world. On a level playing field, the understanding and effort to make a pole winning or race winning setup is massive and it is not information shared freely. Set up's for Hotlaps are made by drivers putting in massive effort to create them. If they want to share them, that is really cool. If they don't they should not have their own hard work given away. Set up, is just as big a part of racing, virtual or real almost as driving.

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So if you are a league racer and upload hotlaps, only upload a HL with existing and freely available setups and keep your "top secret" setups for your league races. Problem solved

I'm sure some teams would already be doing this

Yes they are. Also deleting hotlaps to not share setup information..

Best, Maz

Secrecy is bad. One of the main reasons tyres are (generally) not well modelled in computer games is that nobody wants to give out information on their tyres for fear of the competition gaining advantage from it.

Although it doesn't help that tyre testing is ridiculously expensive, so that also makes the data very valuable, and thus people aren't keen on sharing it.

Quote from Mazar :

Well it sure isnt like that in the real world.

Well in the real world there is a hell of alot more variables to doing a hotlap also. No two qualifying sessions will be the same, from year to year the track will have changed the wheather would be different, no two tyres are ever the same let alone 4 tyres the same, bla bla bla

LFS is a very clinical environment in comparison. The tracks have very little bumps no temperature variation, no oil/water/sand contamination, the tyres in LFS are all perfect replicas of each other no variation between sets of tyres or even between tyres in the one set, they behave quite predictible from season to season, etc, etc

So LFS setup development has quite different goals than real world setup development, that's why I think the Hotlap charts should be more about the driving than the set. But then I don't take LFS so serrious it's a tool for learning about racing and having fun racing, I don't race for sheep stations I keep the serrious stuff for real life

Quote from Mazar :

Set up's for Hotlaps are made by drivers putting in massive effort to create them. If they want to share them, that is really cool. If they don't they should not have their own hard work given away.

I agree, and all I was saying is that they have a choice not to upload a hl with that set, they can upload a hl with another set. If that means they can't get the glory of being seen as the WR holder so what

as i am often considered a hotlapper here's my point of view:

i for do not care what information about my setups are available to the public. often my setups are uploaded to setupfield and/or setupgrid, so you could just download and use them anyway.
i mean - the worst thing that could happen is to lose one of those meaningless world records after all.
But Glenn pointed out the main problem of the public setup information - the league racers. As he summed it up quite well, i do not need to add anything.

end of post.

world records are nothing in these days.

I've had world records in the past and have given my set to a driver who I know is capable of beating my WR with it. The reason I have done this is because I know it is possible to go faster and then when the new WR is set I can look at the guys lap and see where he was quicker than me, thus learning how to be quicker myself.

I have always given my sets out to anyone who wants them, most of them are even posted on my website.

At the same time I understand why people want to keep their sets to themselves and so for this reason I don't think setup information should be available with hotlaps (other than what you can find out by using F1PerfView and AFS which isn't conclusive).

Quote from Herbz :

With the new Hotlap Analyzer available on lfsworld, setup info of Hotlap replays is freely given.

No, it's not all provided.

Only brakes, final drive and gear ratios, tyre compounds, and suspension info is available.

That leaves traction control, engine brake reduction, brake balance, torque split, steering lock, parallel steer, caster, toe angles, diff type and locking, differential preload, tyre pressure and camber, and wing angles.

As far as I'm concerned any hotlap that isn't on LFSW isn't official. End of. You set a WR and delete it from LFSW, you lost that WR.

Quote from duke_toaster :

As far as I'm concerned any hotlap that isn't on LFSW isn't official. End of. You set a WR and delete it from LFSW, you lost that WR.

And in three years time who's gonna care anyway I remember guys [and girls] far more from seeing and meeting them online than I ever will remember a guy who held the WR for a particular combo back in 2005

I respect guys who are able to post WR's as having skill but I remember people for their character not how many WR's they hold.

Well i've got no problem sharing sets at all, in game or inferno. Of course, sometimes im working on setups and i hate to hand out rubbish/ trims which i have not yet tested enough myself in order to say its "ok it worth sharing it". What i do hate is when people use my setups that i have published and then upload/ send them away as their own setups without giving any credits.

About that hotlap analyzer thing which is infact nothing new, just more integrated and easier to use, i tend to agree with the idea of it up to a certain point. If its been used to learn from this data, fair enough but if people just copy and paste those available settings then this is simple down to a lack of imagination or self limitation. Truth is, the available settings are offering vital parts of a setup and a skilful "tweaker" knows how to make use of it and its just a matter of time to get the rest together. But some people tend to forget that there is no wonder setup (not even on the oval...) and many approaches can lead to the same/ simular result. The only question is if its worth for each and everyone to invest enough time into tweaking/ "maximal track usage" in order to get there.

So if you prefer the shortcut then go use available data but if you want to be proud about the result in the end, go start from scratch.

It's a difficult question!

On one hand, public availability of setups is a very good thing for the community and can be a serious advantage for a (potential or not) simmer to pick a sim over another to spend his time on. On the other hand from a league's pov, sharing setups is not a very wise thing to do

I don't really have an answer. But I do know that public availability of setups played an important role in my decision to stick with lfs. However, in our team we don't give setups away when there's a league race pending. After the race, we happily share any setup we might have with everyone asking for it.

EDIT: forgot to point out, that a good setup is solid base to start with, but even if you don't change a tiny bit of it, it takes time and effort to achieve top laptimes.

In LFS I freely give my setup to my competitors, except in the week or so before a league race when I think twice and then still give my setup to my competitors anyway because I just cant help but be nice, really i'm very sweet deep down .

I dont feel that attached to my setups, 99.9 times in 100 i'm not going to be making the difference between someone beating me or not. A setup is a perceived advantage, but it isnt the be all and end all.

If I can help somebody improve their driving by showing them a car that handles a different way, then great - i'm really happy that i've helped somebody.

If I receive a setup i'm still the same driver, I still have to find the extra time myself, if a car that responds a different way helps me do that then thank you! If I then beat you, I still beat you with my own skill, but I hope you enjoyed the race.