So Moscow Raceway has began its constructions. Due to finish somewhere in 2010. Hermann Tilke the designer of famous tracks like Shanghai and Turkey is on this one. He is hoping to get the track on Fomula 1 and MotoGP calendars.

First plans of the track

http://www.motorsport-total.com/news/images_big/39737.jpg

Looks quite interesting, might proove well in the future, and if ti does host F1, it might be quite good actually

What do you think?

Pic:

http://www.motorsport-total.co ... l-1-Strecke_08100109.html

Stupid video, 3D lap starts after 00:25

http://rutube.ru/tracks/106222 ... 3d4d73214cec8cc4a82ec27d2

Looks as crap-tacular as everything else that tit has designed.

[EDIT]

Quote from deggis :

Stupid video, 3D lap starts after 00:25

http://rutube.ru/tracks/106222 ... 3d4d73214cec8cc4a82ec27d2

OOOooo, Apocalyptica. Nice choice. Great song, shite track and video, still, though.

WTF is this long straight for? Ran out of ideas halfway through or what?

Don't worry, it'll have a chicane or two in it within half a decade.

I hope the construction will never begin!

OK so he's got a limitless convas (afterall he can just rehome any comrade who complains about noise in Siberia jk), he's got interesting local terrain and incorporates none of it, preffering instead to clear it all away so there is no sign of local character or charm.

Then as i'm watching the video i'm thinking, "then if it swooshes away up there..." and it didn't.... "oh this corner would be cool if it then dipped down and..." and it didn't... "now this would be a good passing place if..." and it wasnt "this corner would take some bottle if..." and it wont.

I really do not understand what is so special about Tilke that he gets to design all these tracks, he clearly does a good job of the facilities and infrastructure, but race circuits are about the track too and I dont think he understands that.

Now he's involved with so many circuits that the next generation are going to have to put up with racing on this crap for years, some may never even know what a great race track is.

Hehe.

Becky, I'm opposed to F1 in Russia, because I know it will be payed from my wallet directly (from state budget by Vova Pu's decree, like in case of Olympics) or indirectly (from Gazprom's cash; I own some shares). If I were to decide, I'd build a couple of bridges and highways around my city - this is what's really necessary, we're suffocating in traffic jams.

As for Tilke, I think the problem is that F1 is like a big enterprise now and is powerful enough to force new track owners to hire him.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the new tracks since 1999 are his work. Earlier and even now out of F1, tracks are built locally, and the constructors chose whoever they wanted to design the tracks and could build whatever configuration they wanted. Now F1 as an organization wants convenient tracks (which is also pits, parkings, stands, press centres - a lot of things), for which they can't use Goodwood, Zandvoort or Bathrust - they're too narrow or a parking is too small for Dennis' mobile business centre. So, when an organization that wants to have their home GP (Petronas, China, Arab sheikhs, Gazprom) comes up to Bernie, they have to agree to hire Tilke.

aye, and nobody can fault Tilke on the job he does with facilities. He plans every minute detail. I just wish he understand racing a little better because some of his circuit layouts where guaranteed fail right from the drawing board stage.

This is NOT the worse track he's produced, but just from that video I can see how it could have been so much more.

As a racer I tend to think only about the layout of the track, if I had to consider all the facilities too maybe i'd be as crap as Tilke - but as a race fan i'm not interested in those other details, i'll moan about them when i'm stuck in traffic on my way out of Donnington because the only exit road is blocked by a rolled Mercedese... Or when the weather turns a bit nippy at Silverstone so the carpark barbeque doesnt come off and i'm forced to endure the mad crush to get out.

Yes, the racing value of his tracks is low. I didn't mean that facilities are so important. I mean FOA and teams want circuits convenient first of all for team trucks, press, spectators, etc. For that, as I understand, they hired an architect and then started enforcing his service to all the new projects. Those who don't agree, won't get a GP. Zhuhai was built by somebody else, and despite there was some agreement, it didn't get a GP (not sure if the story was exactly like this).

BTW, in a normal world if someone made a championship, there'd be a lot of tracks to chose the most interesting. But when it's F1, it works differently: Tilke gets a task to make yet another great-great circuit, and... This reminded me this piece of Paul Graham:

Quote :

Imagine, for example, what would happen if the government decided to commission someone to write an official Great American Novel. First there'd be a huge ideological squabble over who to choose. Most of the best writers would be excluded for having offended one side or the other. Of the remainder, the smart ones would refuse such a job, leaving only a few with the wrong sort of ambition. The committee would choose one at the height of his career—that is, someone whose best work was behind him—and hand over the project with copious free advice about how the book should show in positive terms the strength and diversity of the American people, etc, etc.

The unfortunate writer would then sit down to work with a huge weight of expectation on his shoulders. Not wanting to blow such a public commission, he'd play it safe. This book had better command respect, and the way to ensure that would be to make it a tragedy. Audiences have to be enticed to laugh, but if you kill people they feel obliged to take you seriously. As everyone knows, America plus tragedy equals the Civil War, so that's what it would have to be about. Better stick to the standard cartoon version that the Civil War was about slavery; people would be confused otherwise; plus you can show a lot of strength and diversity. When finally completed twelve years later, the book would be a 900-page pastiche of existing popular novels—roughly Gone with the Wind plus Roots. But its bulk and celebrity would make it a bestseller for a few months, until blown out of the water by a talk-show host's autobiography. The book would be made into a movie and thereupon forgotten, except by the more waspish sort of reviewers, among whom it would be a byword for bogusness like Milli Vanilli or Battlefield Earth.

(sourse: The Power of the Marginal)

Tilke is up there with Bush.

It's a Tilke Track and you know it by simply just looking at it: uber long straight, followed by conery, difficult section (or other way around). He's designing this kind of track for years now with parking lots next to the actual track.

If they really think this kind of layout is the only one to produce a entertaining f1 race than they should really think about what the hell went so much wrong over the last years.

This is just another boring track.

Most great tracks follow the terrain (Nurburgring/ Brands hatch/ Bathurst etc), its depressing to see motorsport getting so watered down and dull.

Quote from 5haz :

Most great tracks follow the terrain (Nurburgring/ Brands hatch/ Bathurst etc), its depressing to see motorsport getting so watered down and dull.

thats the core of the problem its not so much the corners as the lack of elevation change that makes so many modern tracks dull, if you took almost any of tilkes tracks and draped them over spa's topography you'd probably end up with a challenging circuit, when cars have to cope with bottoming out in dips and going light over crests, it introduces compramise into setups and then you get errors and oportunities, padock bend at brands wouldn't be special if it was at silverstone, neither would the corkscrew from laguna, conversly if you placed the infield section of hockenheim on the side of a welsh mountain you'd end up with cars at all sorts of angles ( and a lot of startled sheep )

Looks ALOT like zolder to me.

For me the track doesn't look too bad. One loong straight coming into the slowest corner of the track looks like a nice passing opportunity with the next shorter straight making it possible for the passed car to attempt to recover his position. The corners on the other parts of the track look nicely technical requiring very late apexes on some point. That horse shoe shaped corner looks great, tightening towards the end with the possible elevation differences making it a abit similar like that one corner on Interlagos. Sure, it is a very quick track but F1 on slow, narrow and twisty tracks is = boredom.

Most of you seem to hate Tilke tracks just because there are lots of people on this forum who always use the opportunity to say how bad track designer Tilke is. Borrocks. Drive some of the Tilke tracks with some fast cars in rf or other sims and tell me you still don't like them. There are some great corners and other technical sections on those corners.

I kind agree with detail, the people on that area would most likely benefit a lot more if they used that money building roads etc.

Quote from Hyperactive :

One loong straight coming into the slowest corner of the track looks like a nice passing opportunity

That horse shoe shaped corner looks great, tightening towards the end with the possible elevation differences making it a abit similar like that one corner on Interlagos.

but thats what each and everyone of his tracks looks like... every single one has a very long straight with a hairpin at the end and every one has a tightening radius corner
its just more of the same boring flat rubbish

I dont think there should be "feelings" for tracks anyway. A track is a track, its like another form and experience/way to win a race. If its not a repeated track, then its a track, and as long as it can actually be raced on (ie, no holes or sharp bumps that will rip up the car), then why should people car if it looks good or bad.

I donno, i too have track priorities. That is, i do like tracks more then others. But the way i see a track, is just a bunch of walls and corners that are required to..hmm... go around and complete. And the more variation, the better.

I think it makes a better driver shine more. The more the tracks are more alike or made for "Formula 1" the less interesting it gets, for me that is. How can i explain it, i see it like a driver being, "ok, this track is tight, fast etc etc, i need to drive it like this this this." .. next race.. "Ok, this track is wide, flowing and very fast, i need to drive smooth,fast etc etc" That Moscow track above is nothing like any track on the calender today in F1. And to me that's just a +1.

IMO.

There are 3 kinds of track though Aoun.

There are tracks that have interesting technical challenges and are fun to race as a driver, like Donington, Snetterton etc.

There are tracks which have character, charm, and produce good racing like Spa Francochamps, Brand Hatch etc.

Then there are tracks designed by Herman Tilke, which result in processional throughfares designed so that TV viewers can clearly see sponsor logo's.

HAHAHA i know what you mean Becky.

I don't disagree at all. Its just to me, i don't care, as long as i can see some racing and new "obstacles" (turns, etc.), I'm happy.

Valencia was dull and quiet. But its a good configuration.

Quote from Becky Rose :

There are 3 kinds of track though Aoun.

There are tracks that have interesting technical challenges and are fun to race as a driver, like Donington, Snetterton etc.

There are tracks which have character, charm, and produce good racing like Spa Francochamps, Brand Hatch etc.

Then there are tracks designed by Herman Tilke, which result in processional throughfares designed so that TV viewers can clearly see sponsor logo's.

It's only processional throughfares in F1 though, maybe that will change next year, but i doubt it will.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Most of you seem to hate Tilke tracks just because there are lots of people on this forum who always use the opportunity to say how bad track designer Tilke is. Borrocks. Drive some of the Tilke tracks with some fast cars in rf or other sims and tell me you still don't like them. There are some great corners and other technical sections on those corners.

No, I hate Tilke because his tracks are shite. I have driven all the F1 circuits in rF, in fast cars, and they're still shite.

Could they really not do anything better with the gigantic straightaway? The first and last turns seem so out of place with the rest of the track.

Not to mention, they'll probably get rid of Spa in F1 because Tilke wasn't allowed to modify it and put this in instead.

If Bernie had ever seen Aston GP or Kyoto GP Long then he would have given Eric the job. Imagine what Eric could do if he did have to make the track work in a reverse config!

Kyoto GP Long isnt bad, though its a tad long for my personal taste, but Aston GP?

Apart from Aston Cadet the whole circuit feels like Herman Tilke has been at it already! It's true, LFS has had to simulate Tilke, and it's called Aston!