So... I've just recently started working at my first proper job, am looking for a place to live to finally move out (yay) and obviously its about time to buy me own car.

The problem is my requirements are rather hard to meet and I'm not at all interested in the badge, as long as it doesn't mean the car will spend most of its life in the workshop (that's that for the Integrale I always wanted then), so I 'm confused what to look for.

Anyway what I'd want in a car is:
- quick
- RWD (or at least not FWD)
- petrol
- useable on the Autobahn
- cheap (less than 10k)
- reliable
- good or at least bearable mileage
- shouldn't be completely useless for a trip to the supermarket
- Euro 2+

So far I've mostly been looking at early 90s japanese coupes but I hope you guys can come up with a few cars I haven't considered yet.

E36 325 Touring
E34 535 Touring


I really don't see why you think it's hard to meet your requirements...


Edit : you can go for sedans if you don't do TOO much shopping....

Because so far the only cars that fit the bill are boring german saloons like the 190E the 3-Series and the A4.
Additionally both with the Mercedes and especially with the BMW it is incredibly hard to find one that wasnt owned and "tuned" by a complete idiot.

Japanese stuff probably is the best way to go... MAZDA MX6.... (<--my favorite lol) nissan 300 mitsubishi 3000gt mitsubishi GTO... volvo 850!!

edited:
ops forgot the "not FWD" part ...

Ford Sierra Cosworth, can be a good reliable every day car if in good condition. I know even ones with 600hp in daily use.

Tho I dunno about with what money you can get one in your country.

If you don't want a BMW but want something that will be reasonably reliable and fun to drive then I'd seriously consider a lightish finely balanced front wheel drive car, if you want something fun and RWD (and don't want a sports car) then you probably want something older and shoddily built in the good old days of the British car industry.

I'd have said that a Mk2 Golf GTI, Mk1 Focus, Clio 172 or Williams (a bit small) would all fit those criteria pretty well.

Ford Mondeo, RWD and it isn't German.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Ford Mondeo, RWD and it isn't German.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Ford Mondeo, RWD and it isn't German.

Sure...

If you do want something RWD and a good laugh what about getting a Lada (doesn't fill any other criteria though ).

< 10k?

Quote from Electric Eye :

Japanese stuff probably is the best way to go... MAZDA MX6.... (<--my favorite lol) nissan 300 mitsubishi 3000gt mitsubishi GTO... volvo 850!!

Some of these are interesting but the problem is they are very rare round here and most of the cheap ones have the steering wheel on the wrong side (especially with an RX-7 FD that I fancy a lot).

Quote from BigPeBe :

Ford Sierra Cosworth, can be a good reliable every day car if in good condition. I know even ones with 600hp in daily use.

Tho I dunno about with what money you can get one in your country.

Seems as if they are fairly cheap very rare and not the most exciting thing there is. It doesn't really jump out from the pictures and makes me want it.

Quote from ajp71 :

if you want something fun and RWD (and don't want a sports car) then you probably want something older and shoddily built in the good old days of the British car industry.

Maybe I didn't make myself perfectly clear on this; it can be a sports car in fact I'd like a coupe. However I'd also like a car that has a boot of some sort that you can get a beer crate into without having to ask a passenger to sit on the rear wing for the trip, so that probably rules out some of the more interesting ones like the MR2.

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I'd have said that a Mk2 Golf GTI, Mk1 Focus, Clio 172 or Williams (a bit small) would all fit those criteria pretty well.

The Forcus has been on my list of interesting but less desirable ones since the start; at the moment I consider it a fallback option if I can't find anything better. The Golf has all the problems the BMW has and it is by far the most common car on german roads making it doubly unappealing. The Clio is well... french and I've never even heard of the Williams before.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Ford Mondeo, RWD and it isn't German.

And a lot like the Sierra and the Focus, not that I don't like the idea but I don't fancy it either.
I'd just like something a little less sensible.

Quote from ajp71 :

If you do want something RWD and a good laugh what about getting a Lada (doesn't fill any other criteria though ).

Believe it or not I have considered (without seriousness) a Lada Niva 4x4 for a bit. It is a very cool car and it stands out to the sort of people who get good humour.
But I just rememberd I forgot one important thing in my requirements:
It has to be useable on the Autobahn without keeping you in a constant state of mortal terror

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Ford Mondeo, RWD and it isn't German.

Funny, Mondeos are FWD?

A RWD transit van (or equivalent - are Sprinters available with RWD?)
Lots of room for beer. Good (ish) at autobahns. Room for 2 passengers (more if converted).
Handling is 'interesting', but good fun on a frozen roundabout

Lots of downsides though

Quote from tristancliffe :

A RWD transit van (or equivalent - are Sprinters available with RWD?)
Lots of room for beer. Good (ish) at autobahns. Room for 2 passengers (more if converted).
Handling is 'interesting', but good fun on a frozen roundabout

Lots of downsides though

......Yeah
Come on Tristan I was counting on you to come up with something. After all the car you drive ticks almost all boxes; except maybe the 'shouldn't make me look like a hairdresser' one.

How about a Nissan 300ZX? It's rear wheel drive, and it has a 230bhp turbocharged V6.

I suspected you might want to look masculine, so I didn't suggest one! I like the RX-8, but I'd be constantly worried about the engine breaking (as well as the lack of torque where you want/need it). I wouldn't dream of suggesting anything German for the reasons already stated. The English have never been good at making good road cars, and the Americans have yet to actually make a decent car for road, sport or race.

So, that leaves the Japs. Mazda are pretty good (shame about the Ford money, but at least Mazda have stuck to their guns with their design ideas). Nissan and Mitsubishi made some okay cars (though not the sporty, RWD stuff which was pretty ropey [edit: see above - power and RWD, but can barely do corners or slow down for them]). Honda tried with the S2000, but bootspace and price put it out of your market probably.

Sadly I think you'll have to compromise somewhere. Where exactly is up to you!

Skoda and Lada made some pretty fun, cheap cars, but instead of looking like a hairdresser you'd look like a tramp. Maybe that's not so bad?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Skoda and Lada made some pretty fun, cheap cars, but instead of looking like a hairdresser you'd look like a tramp. Maybe that's not so bad?

And you can buy ten for the price of one normal car! So instead of having space for just one crate of beer, you can now carry ten!

Also, because it's cheap, it's easy to repair. Just get another one

Ford Puma! Yes, it's FWD but it's a quick, fun, reliable, good looking "driver's car".

And yes, I own one so I'm biased.

EDIT: And you get air-con And the 1.6 model does 35MPG, not sure about the 1.7.

Quote from hrtburnout :

How about a Nissan 300ZX? It's rear wheel drive, and it has a 230bhp turbocharged V6.

Isn't that what nissan came up with when they tried to make an american car, i.e. one that won't go round corners no matter what?

Quote from tristancliffe :

I like the RX-8, but I'd be constantly worried about the engine breaking (as well as the lack of torque where you want/need it).

Is it really that bad? I thought a Wankel had basically 1 moving part and 3 parts which get worn a lot but otherwise is about as simple as can be.
Either way it starts at around 11k so id guess for a devent one you'd have to strech the budget to ~15k which is a bit more than what I'd be willing to spend on a first car. I'd like one (although with Mazda and Wankel the RX-7 FD is a lot more sexy) but its a bit much.

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The English have never been good at making good road cars

There are a few english ones that I fancy but you absolutely can't use them as daily drivers and they'll be a lot over budget.

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So, that leaves the Japs. Mazda are pretty good (shame about the Ford money, but at least Mazda have stuck to their guns with their design ideas). Nissan and Mitsubishi made some okay cars (though not the sporty, RWD stuff which was pretty ropey [edit: see above - power and RWD, but can barely do corners or slow down for them]).

Back to where I started basically.
That doesnt answer which one of the many japanese 90ish coupes is the best choice though.

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Honda tried with the S2000, but bootspace and price put it out of your market probably.

With a car like the S2000 I'd be more than willing to forgive a few failings in terms of boot and such, but the price, which starts at around 15k and probably a good bit more for one that hasn't been ragged by some idiot, is too steep.

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Sadly I think you'll have to compromise somewhere. Where exactly is up to you!

I obviously realise that the question is though which car would be a sensible compromise without being a particularly sensible car itself.

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Skoda and Lada made some pretty fun, cheap cars, but instead of looking like a hairdresser you'd look like a tramp. Maybe that's not so bad?

Like I said earlier I really like Ladas and wouldn't mind to look like a plonker to most people as long as some get the joke. However I highly suspect they will be terrifying on the Autobahn and probably have a hard time meeting the Euro 1 specs (nevermind Euro 2 with a Lada's displacement it won't matter much anyway) which mean that you aren't allowed to drive them into town anymore.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Funny, Mondeos are FWD?

You are right, I need to lay off the crack pipe. I was thinking about a different car altogether. >.<

No, don't be worried about rotaries dying.

Do your research, service it, wait for it to warm up and cool down, and it'll live a long and happy life.

However, you can't mis-treat them like your typical piston cars, by all means, abuse the **** out of it. But allow it to warm up, and cool down.

As for lack of torque, thats what kicking it back a gear is for


To be honest, i'de be more worried about fuel usage with a rotary...
funny story...


was on a performance car cruise a few months ago
90 kilometres, in the middle of no-where

Series 1 Rx-7 13bt bridge port runs out of fuel, feel so sorry for the guy...
though i think some other fellow rotor owners helped him out with fuel, still hilarious though..

Quote from Klutch :

To be honest, i'de be more worried about fuel usage with a rotary...

Yeah thats another issue with them that puts me off buying one.

Did the Italians still make anything interesting and RWD in the last ~10 years?

Quote from Shotglass :

Yeah thats another issue with them that puts me off buying one.

Did the Italians still make anything interesting and RWD in the last ~10 years?

Ferrari 355? lululul.

I think anything affordable and Italian is FWD. If you go back a decade you could get a Alfa Romeo 75.

Toyota Supra

Quote from Shotglass :

The Clio is well... french and I've never even heard of the Williams before.

It was a hot version of the original Clio, with a very long stroke 2 litre, very light and capable cars, rather a love hate kind of thing though. They only made a limited run so expect to pay quite a lot for an old hot hatch certainly something a little different.

Quote :

Believe it or not I have considered (without seriousness) a Lada Niva 4x4 for a bit. It is a very cool car and it stands out to the sort of people who get good humour.
But I just rememberd I forgot one important thing in my requirements:
It has to be useable on the Autobahn without keeping you in a constant state of mortal terror

What about a Talbot Sunbeam Lotus? A well sorted one will fly and you're bound to embarrass some smug Porsche drivers with it. A well sorted example should be reachable within your budget, though I'm not sure what the availability of left hand drive one is like (or if they even made them).

Quote from tristancliffe :

The English have never been good at making good road cars, and the Americans have yet to actually make a decent car for road, sport or race.

There are at least two Americans who have built two of the best racing cars of all time, this one is the prettiest and this one wouldn't look out of place at Le Mans 20 years after it was built.