Hi guys,

I have an Act Labs Force RS setup with the performance pedals (with clutch) and the RS shifter. One thing that I always felt the wheel lacked was a realistic rotation but back in 2000 when I bought it such wheels did not exist.

Now I see the DFP and Momo wheels are very popular and I'm thinking maybe its time to jump ship. The thing is my Act Labs setup works great and I really like the feel of it, IMO Act Labs made an awesome, hefty, wheel with the Force RS.

So in your opinion is the enhanced rotation worth it? :lovies3d: I should add that Im a huge rally fan game and the 270 rotation of the Act Labs doesnt simulate the low level FWD cars that I like to drive very well.

Having used a DFP it is indeed a higher quality wheel than the Momo Force, but frankly the 900 degrees of turning is too much for racing (although you can turn it down of course) and the shifter is stuck on the wrong side (well, for me).

I suspect the Act Labs gear is higher quality than either. I do find the 270 degrees a bit limiting on my Momo, but limiting the steering lock in the setup can make the best of that.

I don't have a DFP myself (MS FF Wheel here) but let you be warned: drifting, and therefore rallying, gets much much harder with a increased wheel rotation. I really doubt you'd get any quicker with it, but if you want to simulate RL as accurately as possible, then I'd say go for it.

Using the "crazy flying arms and hands" technique thisnameistaken?

I remember that post, Kev .

The Momo is only a 270 (or 240?) degree wheel. DFP is the only one with the increased rotation.

And Bob, I wouldn't say the Momo is lacking in quality. Mine is a hefty, nice quality feeling wheel. (I've never used DFP, but I'd guess they were about the same quality wise). **AH, I see you said Momo Force. I have the Momo Racing.

Quote from mrodgers :

And Bob, I wouldn't say the Momo is lacking in quality. Mine is a hefty, nice quality feeling wheel. (I've never used DFP, but I'd guess they were about the same quality wise). **AH, I see you said Momo Force. I have the Momo Racing.

Logitech should have named the MOMOs "MOMO Red" and "MOMO Black". Childish names but at least not confusing.

TheRealEddie, and DON'T get rid of your RS Shifter. It's a very rare controller nowadays. It doesn't matter if you change your wheel, it should work no matter what the wheel is (afaik?).

The shifter works independently if you have the USB adapter box made for universal shifter and performance pedals. They won't be that "rare" soon either, since Act-Labs are bringing out the updated model to the market.

*Edit, oh and yes TheRealEddie, I think you should get rid of that hunk'o'junk Act-Labs wheel, I have one and it's utter crap compared to DFP imo.

Hehe, yeah I have the RS model of the shifter which means I need to have my wheel connected to use the shifter. As long as a game accepts 3 different controllers then I can use my AL performance pedals, shifter (connected through the Force RS cable) and a DFP together.

For me, the increased rotation would really add to the realism of my sims.

Time to order from Amazon.com . PS..Hush Hush..dont tell my wife!

I've been using the DFP for almost a year now. The first week took some getting used to, but after that i havent looked back.

I have left the rotation on 900 and to be honest, it doesnt matter what car your in, when you are at racing speeds you dont need to turn the wheel as much as everyone says. In hairpins and slow speed corners you will need to turn it more (only turning it enough to cross your arms normally, no need to take your hands off), and overall it is more precise, which probably helps a lot with the single seaters.

Catching slides will seem harder at first, but once you get the hang of it you just do it without realising. Rally X is a lot of fun, and you will need to throw on lots of opposite lock sometimes but again, you get used to it and when you get the hang of it you'll end up faster ... and having more fun :boing:

I bought a dfp for the better quality. I have the rotation set to 300, the wheel is just too small for proper swinging off it, 2.5 turns lock to lock around corners...

Quote from TheRealEddie :

Time to order from Amazon.com . PS..Hush Hush..dont tell my wife!

LOL, that's what my wife does, orders stuff from Amazon.com without telling me. She always forgets that I get the confirmation email right at work the next day . Hmm, what's this email? Ah, gee, and what was the wifey doing last night on the internet .

i bought a DFP last week.

The pedals. I just used them about one night.... and i putted them away.
Too soft, with no effort you go to almost full braking just like that. The course is also small.

So i installed my old wheel pedals, the Thrustmaster FF GT




Thrust FF GT is a great great wheel, and i still noticed a very positive jump from going to the DFP

DFP wheel + FF GT pedals = i'm in heaven..... and the wheel is good! FF is great on the FDP

If you want a realistic rotation, just get the DFP, but I've tried to use the DFP in LFS and other simulations, and I just cannot be as quick as I normally am.

Because the sad thing is... there is a very high percentage of users that use 270 +/- degree wheels, and mostly the fast drivers in simulations. Because catching slides, and having quick responsive steering is what you need to control most simulations these days. So most people that want to have the realistic experience in LFS will find themselves to be a bit slower when using 900 degrees of rotation.

But the good thing is, you can switch between the two modes of rotations, full 900 and 270 (or whatever it is). I believe you need special drivers for that or something... might have to ask the DFP users around here. You'd probably find yourself using the low-rotation for fast serious driving (like in formula cars), but if you want to have the most enjoyable experience, 900 degrees is very fun... and you've already got the clutch and shifter setup, so the DFP would be a nice addition .

No special drivers needed, you can select 900DEG, 270DEG and everything in between, I use 540-720 for LFS and 360-400 for GTL/GTR.

Dan,

mrodgers - so is it the red or black wheel you have? mine is the black. I don't think the momo is great quality, but better than cheapo wheels. The DFP is somewhat better but still not as good as I would like (the PlayStation buttons don't help either).

And yeah a special key combination will change the DFP into hard 200 degree mode instead of 900. However you've then got less precision than any other wheel, I couldn't use the DFP in 200 degree mode when driving the FO8, just spins too easily and you need the smoothness. If it locked to say 540 degrees instead of 200, that would be great, and you could leave the 900 degrees to have truly accurate parallel parking.

Quote from Bob Smith :

mrodgers - so is it the red or black wheel you have? mine is the black. I don't think the momo is great quality, ...

I have the black which is Momo Racing. The red one is the old Momo Force. What don't you like about it? I love mine! Had it for around a year now. It has the typical Logitech pedal problem, but I fixed that (per Moszo's site) and haven't had a problem since. The wheel though, I find very nice quality and precise. If only my driving quality could match it, LOL. Wish it did have the buttons of the DFP though.

Quote from danowat :

No special drivers needed, you can select 900DEG, 270DEG and everything in between, I use 540-720 for LFS and 360-400 for GTL/GTR.

Dan,

Yea, no special drivers but of course "usual" drivers needs to be installed.

You probably know this but I said this to Tweaker.

I have a DFP, and first of all I would say it's great.
But I have a question too, when you put the number of degrees on, let's say, 300°, does it really lock up there, or do you guys get a "soft" stop, like on 200°? Because I can just turn further with just a little nudge where it should stop, is this normal? I heard people saying it makes a soft stop, or very hard FF

If you set the rotation in wingman, it'll be the soft stop, which is basically just strong FFB. If you set the wheel to 200 degrees (select+R3+L1) it will have a hard stop, but only 200 degrees.

I also want to point out that with my wheel set at 900, i am turning it exactly the same amount as "me" in the game. Even if i jump straight to a single seater with 900 degrees i only turn it as much as in game, but i dont have anything stopping me turn more (which does nothing).

Why do people often say this amount of rotation is too much, when thats how much "you" turn the wheel in game

Quote from VALE 46 :

Why do people often say this amount of rotation is too much, when thats how much "you" turn the wheel in game

I don't turn the wheel in the game, I turn the wheel mounted on my desk. I don't even see a wheel in the game, just dashboard gauges and out the front windshield. There isn't even room for a wheel on my screen .

Quote from VALE 46 :

I also want to point out that with my wheel set at 900, i am turning it exactly the same amount as "me" in the game. Even if i jump straight to a single seater with 900 degrees i only turn it as much as in game, but i dont have anything stopping me turn more (which does nothing).

Why do people often say this amount of rotation is too much, when thats how much "you" turn the wheel in game

That's because you can use whatever amount of rotation you want. The obvious reason for this is to allow people with a steering wheel that has only 200° of rotation to play the game. Otherwise these people wouldn't be able to take hair pins and such because their wheel doesn't let them turn far enough. The other way it's the same story of course. If a 1500° wheel existed, you would be able to use the full amount of rotation too. But is that realistic? No.

If you want the optimal realism, you should set your wheel and game to the amount of rotation the car really has. The streetcars have all 720°, the race cars 540° and the open wheel racers 270° (I'm not sure about the last - I don't drive open wheel racers).

And yes, some people do find 720° and even 540° way too much. It's easier to catch a slide with a limited amount of rotation. I think most drifters will use way lower settings, but racers can benefit from the extra precision you get with the high amounts of rotation. If you're used to driving a 200°-270° wheel it's not easy to pick up the 720/540° modes. When I got my DFP to replace my totally worn out Trustmaster T2, I found it rather impossible to catch slides. But instead of setting the amount of rotation to something like 270°, I sticked with the higher amounts and learned to handle it. It took a while, but now I catch a slide just as easily as I did with the Trustmaster.

The 720°/540° modes probably won't improve your lap times (usually the opposite), but it makes close pack racing a lot more precise and most important it's more realistic.

What i'm trying to say is, if you have a DFP, and LFS you obviously like sims, which means you want it to be realistic. In the game these [road] cars have 720 degrees, so if these exact cars exicted in real life you would be able to turn the wheel 720 degrees, so why not use that when playing the game 'cos thats how it would be in RL.

I stuck with the higher rotation, and find catching slides in the LX4/6, RAC etc "normal", its not difficult. I also find that i dont get into big slides as often because its easier to adjust the car slightly mid corner, if you are letting the slides get too big, and out of control then your doing something "wrong" to let it get like that, its almost always faster to keep the thing pointing forward. I would definently say im faster now than i was when i was using my old wheel (the ferrari one in this thread).


"If you want the optimal realism, you should set your wheel and game to the amount of rotation the car really has. The streetcars have all 720°, the race cars 540° and the open wheel racers 270° (I'm not sure about the last - I don't drive open wheel racers)."

Even though my wheel is at 900, i still only turn it 720 [road] 540[race car] 270 [single seaters], its just that i dont have a stop to stop me turning the wheel more, which doesnt really matter, and saves loading it up again when you change cars.

all of that would be fine, if the dfp wheel was as suited to huge swinging arm steering wheel movements as a 'normal' steering wheel. I can go lock to lock on my rx7, and correct from this state, far easier than on my dfp... maybe my hands are too big or something, but I just get lost with where the wheel is at.

Quote from Blowtus :

all of that would be fine, if the dfp wheel was as suited to huge swinging arm steering wheel movements as a 'normal' steering wheel. I can go lock to lock on my rx7, and correct from this state, far easier than on my dfp... maybe my hands are too big or something, but I just get lost with where the wheel is at.

So I got my DFP, the rotation is nice although I do agree with Blowtus here that the wheel feels small. Soooo..my next project will be to mount my spare Sparco wheel somehow. I'm slightly conscerned about the weight on the FF motor...

Anyone have any info on projects where a normal wheel was mounted on a gaming wheel?

Quote from TheRealEddie :

So I got my DFP, the rotation is nice although I do agree with Blowtus here that the wheel feels small. Soooo..my next project will be to mount my spare Sparco wheel somehow. I'm slightly conscerned about the weight on the FF motor...

Anyone have any info on projects where a normal wheel was mounted on a gaming wheel?

That is why I got one of these > http://www.frex.com/gp/wheeladapter/index.htm and a RL Momo racing wheel

Dan,