Hi racers,

This is the first of several discussion threads that I'm starting so we at iCON can gather your opinions about what works and what doesn't in iTCC. These threads will help us to improve the experience for you the racer and for the viewers of the iTCC.

I should add this point

• The intention when creating iTCC was (and still is) for it to be based as closely as possible on real-world touring-car race series.
  

The first of these threads concerns the ballast system.

Current Ballast System

The ballast system that has been used is based on the 2007 WTCC success ballast system. This system has worked well as a whole for most of the field, however towards the end of the season the difference in ballasting between the most successful drivers was far more pronounced than earlier in the season.

The current rules are: (in blue)

Success Ballast

The imposition of success ballast is based on 2 criteria: championship points and race results.

a) according to the Championship points: 1 kg per every 3 points scored

b) according to the sum of points obtained in the three races of the last event, according to the following scale:

1st = 30 kg
2nd = 25 kg
3rd = 20 kg
4th = 15 kg
5th = 10 kg
6th = 5 kg

These ballasts will be scrapped and recalculated after each championship round.

Handicap weights a) and b) are cumulative up to a maximum of 70 kg

At the first round of the championship, nobody carries ballast (Because no-one has won a race or has any points)

At the second and each subsequent round of the championship, any driver entering the championship for the first time that season will have a 'new-entrant' ballast of 30 Kgs for that round. (The WTCC 2008 ballast rules had the same clause)

Future Ballast System

I am inviting your ideas and opinions on possible ballasting systems for the 2010 iTCC season. Please base any solution on a real-life touring-car race series if at all possible. It's not that the current solution is bad, it's actually very very good (IMO:razz, it's just that we'd like to hear your opinions, and we'd like to see if there's a better way of doing things.

Be in no doubt - ballasting is an integral part of iTCC - it is here to stay.

Thanks and I look forward to your replies,

Joe Keaveney - ITCC Admin

Isn't current balast system are too harsh for simracing? IMHO we should use half of current balast now.
Just my 2 cc.

Quote from Joe_Keaveney :

The ballast system that has been used is based on the 2007 WTCC success ballast system. This system has worked well as a whole for most of the field, however towards the end of the season the difference in ballasting between the most successful drivers was far more pronounced than earlier in the season.

This is exactly the reason of why I used to not like WTCC on the 2007-08 era. Because of this system, you can see people who were on the middle of the grid on the beginning of the season winning races afterwards mainly because the championship leaders had ballast, but then diving on the back again because their win(s) brought them ballast.(ie : Thomson on 2008 on WTCC) This is an endless cycle, and for me that's the explanation of why we had 10 different winners this season on iTCC.

Anyway I don't like ballast in general, as for me motorsport is not wrestling, and for example when I see Mercedes doing the one-two at Oschersleben on DTM although they only earned three points(IIRC) two weeks before at Hockenheim, well, I'm obliged to shoot "FAKE" in front of the TV, even if maybe it's not. So I won't be able to make a decent suggestion as ballast is really something I'm against, but I'd only say that WTCC's system is two heavy in general(even the current one, which is still beter than before), so I'd just say that you should reduce the maximum amount of weight someone can get during the season, maybe to 30-40kg or so.

I will combine the two. Using half of the ballast as it was, and have a max weight at 40 kg.

I'm ok to keep actual system, maybe a bit less ballast for the champ leaders.

OK guys after a very long break (I needed it) I've been thinking over the ballast rules and am considering reducing all ballast weights by either 25% or 35% , with a maximum ballast of either 50 Kgs or 45 Kgs.

Please can I have your opinions and suggestions, they will be considered (although not necessarily acted on) and we will then make a decision and amend the rules.

Thanks

Joe Keaveney

I personally believe the ballast system made the iTCC what it was. The fact that no-one could predict who would win a round. The racing was awesome because the faster drivers were pegged back, and any one of the 30 could have won. I'd keep it the same personally.

Yeah leave it as it is. If it isn't broken dont fix it.

Quote from Wilko868 :

I personally believe the ballast system made the iTCC what it was. The fact that no-one could predict who would win a round. The racing was awesome because the faster drivers were pegged back, and any one of the 30 could have won. I'd keep it the same personally.

I agree +1

Just give all the Core/Renesis/Serbian guys 100kg. That makes it more fair

Personally I think it was ok as it was. Maybe a tad too much, but not far off

The huge end of season ballast is the problem with the WTCC system, but if you reduce the ballast amount, at the start of the season the ballast handed out wont be enough for it to work properly. Personally I would like to see ballast on a race-by-race basis, for the top 5 or 6 (say, 30,25,20,15,10,5) which would slow the quick drivers down straight away at each circuit, add more setup strategy, and make race 2 into how it's supposed to be like in the BTCC - the polesitter is the guy who's just won race 1, and thus gets maximum ballast and has to contend with the lighter cars behind.

Quote from J@tko :

Just give all the Core/Renesis/Serbian guys 100kg. That makes it more fair

Personally I think it was ok as it was. Maybe a tad too much, but not far off

My3id Dream would start then :P

I like how all the mid-back of the pack drivers think its good. Definately reduce by atleast 25%.

:doh:

Come on Ken, what made iTCC exciting? The fact that you, me, Jack Atkinson, The Pope, anyone could win a race. The fact that everyone was almost as quick as each other (especially with the shootout) made the action close, the overtaking fierce and exciting. It may have been a touch excessive, but nowhere near 25%.

I'm rambling

25% is too little, if anything..Sure, make the ballast enough so that the normal mid packers can keep up with the leaders, but don't make it so they can drive away from the drivers that should be in the front.

I agree with Kenneth here, tbh. It was a tad too much last year. 50 kg should do

Quote from J@tko :

Just give all the Core/Renesis/Serbian guys 100kg. That makes it more fair
Personally I think it was ok as it was. Maybe a tad too much, but not far off

Lucky me

Quote from Wilko868 :

I personally believe the ballast system made the iTCC what it was. The fact that no-one could predict who would win a round. The racing was awesome because the faster drivers were pegged back, and any one of the 30 could have won. I'd keep it the same personally.

Quote from EliteAti :

I agree +1

Quote from Wilko868 :

:doh:

Come on Ken, what made iTCC exciting? The fact that you, me, Jack Atkinson, The Pope, anyone could win a race. The fact that everyone was almost as quick as each other (especially with the shootout) made the action close, the overtaking fierce and exciting. It may have been a touch excessive, but nowhere near 25%.

I'm rambling

I agree to anything said in the textes I quoted

I was one of the "slow" pilots last season, i only got to race in 2 or 3 races. So i never had to carry extra weight. But, i think you guys should max the total weight to 50 kg . Using ballast is fair till some point. 70 kg is maybe a bit over the top.

Whatever you guys decide to do, it will be fine. In my opinion, ITCC was the best event in 2009, and im sure it will be in 2010, even with 70 kg.

Sure, decrease the weights and let the championship be decided before the season ends.

Just thought you guys might like to know that we're going to trial race-by-race ballasting at tomorrow's Pre-Season meeting. Remember, it's just a trial, so nothing is definite - we're trying it out to see the effects.

Quote :

Success ballast
Late-entry ballast for drivers who did not compete in pre-qualifying after round 1, at the series admins discretion.
Ballast shall be given for the following positions:
1st - 42kg
2nd - 35kg
3rd - 28kg
4th - 21kg
5th - 14kg
6th - 7kg
After each race the ballast weights will be scrapped and recalculated; ballast will not be accumulated
Before each round, the top 6 in the championship will be given ballast, and shall carry the ballast for qualifying and race 1 at the next round
For races 2 and 3 at each round, the top 6 in the previous race shall carry ballast

That should make the 2nd and 3rd heats more interesting, but at the same time it's a little unfair because the ones with weight never got the chance to practice with it... Guess we'll have to see how it turns out.

Quote from 666MePhIsTo666 :

That should make the 2nd and 3rd heats more interesting, but at the same time it's a little unfair because the ones with weight never got the chance to practice with it... Guess we'll have to see how it turns out.

There won't be any weights for the 1st race, just the 2nd and 3rd ones at this pre-season race.

Quote from Joe_Keaveney :

There won't be any weights for the 1st race, just the 2nd and 3rd ones at this pre-season race.

Yes, but still no one can practise with the new weight added ...

Do you get rid of any weight in case you are placed from 7th and down?
Do you get rid of any weight after some races without points?
.... or do you keep the weight added for the rest of the season?

Quote from Cawwa :

Yes, but still no one can practise with the new weight added ...

Do you get rid of any weight in case you are placed from 7th and down?
Do you get rid of any weight after some races without points?
.... or do you keep the weight added for the rest of the season?

The answers to those questions can be found in this post

Top 6 are ballasted

Ballast is recalculated after every race

No you don't keep the weight.

Like I say, read the post again

Cheers

Joe Keaveney

Ok, I read but don't fully understand. It's clear how it works now in the preseason race today ( I think... )

But during the season ... see if I got it right here.

Let's say Round 3.

Qualify and Race 1 you get weight acording to your place in the champioship:
1st - 42kg
2nd - 35kg
3rd - 28kg
4th - 21kg
5th - 14kg
6th - 7kg

Race 2: All weights are taken away. But the racers get ballast after their place in Race 1
1st - 42kg
2nd - 35kg
3rd - 28kg
4th - 21kg
5th - 14kg
6th - 7kg

Race 3: All weights are taken away. But the racers get ballast after their place in Race 2
1st - 42kg
2nd - 35kg
3rd - 28kg
4th - 21kg
5th - 14kg
6th - 7kg

On top of this you have ballast acording how many championship point you have. They are not taken away at any time?