Driving Simulator
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(44 posts, started )
Driving Simulator
Wouldn't it be cool for the developers of LFS to make a similar game to LFS (using the LFS code) with the same road cars but the settings are motorways and the rules are those what apply for driving on the road than driving on a track. The setups on the cars are therefore suited for road driving than track driving.

I would pay for that anyday, just gotta save money for LFS first :P
#2 - Jakg
If you mean to use it for learning to drive - then no, it'd be utterly useless. It's just not the same - you can't learn to fish on a computer and the same applies for LFS.
#3 - VoiD
I have to disagree.

With a proper Wheel/3-pedal-setup, manual clutch and H-shifter on a narrow autocross-layout it should be possible to learn the simple basics.

Like manoeuvre cars, reversing, (reverse) parking, overtaking, not to crash when looking arround, do some phonecalls whilst driving, fiddle with the radio etc...
here in the Netherlands are driving schools who use a simulator for the basic skills so you don't have to take that much road lessons
Quote from VoiD :I have to disagree.

With a proper Wheel/3-pedal-setup, manual clutch and H-shifter on a narrow autocross-layout it should be possible to learn the simple basics.

Like manoeuvre cars, reversing, (reverse) parking, overtaking, not to crash when looking arround, do some phonecalls whilst driving, fiddle with the radio etc...

Not at all. LfS can't teach you how to drive a real car. What simulations can do though, and what theay actually do already, is teach the basics about what to beserve, what to watch and how the rules and regulations work.

But for driving a car, I think it's best to learn with the real thing.
I think it's a very good simulator for this, BUT only for learning how to control car and basics with g25, so I agree with Void. Anyway, you need more cars and MANY crossways to teach/learn properly.. and more sensitive clutch and gas.
Anyway, I use it to refresh the basics to my GF and she likes it too. Feels natural, but not natural enough to be the simulation which driving schools should use..
*cough* cruise server *cough*
Quote from swingkid :here in the Netherlands are driving schools who use a simulator for the basic skills so you don't have to take that much road lessons

I've driven in one of those and your waaaaay better of with lfs and a g25 or simular to get any sort of "feeling" for the car. The driving simulator has like 10 positions in its steering wheel so it isn't smooth and more bs like that, just very low quality.

And maybe cruise servers are a answer to your search, LTC has a demo cruise server but there aren't any added object in the map, you'll have to get s2 for that.
#9 - JJ72
Quote from VoiD :I have to disagree.

With a proper Wheel/3-pedal-setup, manual clutch and H-shifter on a narrow autocross-layout it should be possible to learn the simple basics.

Like manoeuvre cars, reversing, (reverse) parking, overtaking, not to crash when looking arround, do some phonecalls whilst driving, fiddle with the radio etc...

Unless you have a 360 degree projector screen.

How you look in real life, in a real car is just so much different, the perception of 3 dimension space as well.

Manoeuvring cars isn't the main thing about real world driving anyway, it's much more about situational awareness and proper road manners.
Quote from JJ72 :Unless you have a 360 degree projector screen.
Quote from VoiD :I have to disagree.

With a proper Wheel/3-pedal-setup, manual clutch and H-shifter on a narrow autocross-layout it should be possible to learn the simple basics.

Like manoeuvre cars, reversing, (reverse) parking, overtaking, not to crash when looking arround,


That can somehow also display 3D depth, and can sense the position of your head and adjust accordingly. And a full-motion frame to sit in.

Or...... you could buy, say, a car. And drive it around. For a fraction of the cost.
#11 - Woz
Slap LFS on a 6DOF motion platform and use head tracker VR goggles and you might be getting closer imho.

As others have said though, LFS can teach the basics such as how to spot dangerous situations and basic control techniques.

For anything more and you have the trouble that won't understand the forces that act on your body and what they are telling you, vital queues in driving. When you have driven in real life you know what you should feel and can overlay them on LFS.

When I drive LFS I constantly evaluate in my head the circle of grip for each tyre and the weight shifts I believe I have instigated with my control inputs. That coupled with FF (G25) allow me to get a feel of what the car is up to.

All this is not something a non-driver can do and why it would be hard to translate into real world when they get behind the wheel.

Sims can teach you but motion is the key. I did 10 years working on flight sims (The type used to train commercial and military pilots) to know a good sim with good "feedback" can teach you a great deal
#12 - CSU1
Quote from Jakg :If you mean to use it for learning to drive - then no, it'd be utterly useless. It's just not the same - you can't learn to fish on a computer and the same applies for LFS.

...what a ruddy knob like statement to make

I'd love to try to explain to the eurofighter trainee pilots = "Okay lads, the training curriculum we provide is fairly hands-on. Take this £66.7 million Eurofighter for your first spin - and remember! If you don't know what the buttons or levers do, don't press it"

Fresh fish are no different to simulated ones. The fun is in the game/catch

Realism is a nonesential factor in sport.
Quote from JJ72 :...
Manoeuvring cars isn't the main thing about real world driving anyway, it's much more about situational awareness and proper road manners.

+1 for this.

I believe what the OP wanna see is technically possible. But that's A LOT of work, not only a city mod and road going physics. You have to simulate other drivers/riders/pedestrians' road behaviors, which is not as easy as many may imagine.
#14 - VoiD
I was fully aware of the limitations. Nothing is better to get teached on the real thing...

But to learn the basic motion sequences it should be enough. There´s a wheel for the hands, some pedals for the feets and a fancy stick (for what?). And don´t forget all the switches and knobs.

Lets say for the up- and down-shifts. What pedal to lift, what pedal to press and when, or is it to enough to fiddle with the gearstick...?
"R"..? ...hey that´s cool, must be the "Race"-gear... or was it "Rally", "Reverse"..?
Braking: without or without clutch (and when)...?

Speed: driving in what gear for what speed in what situation/turns...

I guess you know what I mean...
#15 - Jakg
Quote from CSU1 :...what a ruddy knob like statement to make

I'd love to try to explain to the eurofighter trainee pilots = "Okay lads, the training curriculum we provide is fairly hands-on. Take this £66.7 million Eurofighter for your first spin - and remember! If you don't know what the buttons or levers do, don't press it"

Fresh fish are no different to simulated ones. The fun is in the game/catch

Realism is a nonesential factor in sport.

Flying is not the same as driving, though - driving a car isn't hard, it's the way you drive on the road, around other cars, looking, using road signs and techinque thats important.
Quote from CSU1 :...what a ruddy knob like statement to make

I'd love to try to explain to the eurofighter trainee pilots = "Okay lads, the training curriculum we provide is fairly hands-on. Take this £66.7 million Eurofighter for your first spin - and remember! If you don't know what the buttons or levers do, don't press it"

Fresh fish are no different to simulated ones. The fun is in the game/catch

Realism is a nonesential factor in sport.

You do know that these simulators are primarily used to teach people how to operate the systems of a plane, and NOT to teach them how to fly, do you?

JakGs point is perfectly valid.
Quote from Jakg :Flying is not the same as driving, though - driving a car isn't hard

Comparedto driving, flying a plane isn't hard either - a small plane like a Cessna (about the same size and 'equivalence' to a car) is lot easier to fly than it is to drive a car (yes I have done both).
#18 - dev
Quote from Crashgate3 :Comparedto driving, flying a plane isn't hard either - a small plane like a Cessna (about the same size and 'equivalence' to a car) is lot easier to fly than it is to drive a car (yes I have done both).

Confirmed...
#19 - Jakg
Quote from Crashgate3 :Comparedto driving, flying a plane isn't hard either - a small plane like a Cessna (about the same size and 'equivalence' to a car) is lot easier to fly than it is to drive a car (yes I have done both).

A cessna is not a Eurofighter though...
actually the typhoon is supposed to be easy to fly as the computer does most of the work
The fly-by-wire does the flying for you, there's like no fatigue involved...
#22 - Woz
Quote from ColeusRattus :You do know that these simulators are primarily used to teach people how to operate the systems of a plane, and NOT to teach them how to fly, do you?

I must point out something here.

A pilot can pass certification in a Level D (Zero hour grade) simulator for say a 737 without ever setting foot in a 737 then go directly to a real plane and legally fly it in a commercial setting!

So while they are not used to primarily teach flying they are used to bring a pilot up to speed on what it feels like to fly these things and how they react in the air etc.

This pic for example is of a Harrier GR7 sim the company I worked for produced. The ball on the legs contained a harrier cockpit in the middle. The visuals were projected to the inside of the ball to give 360deg visuals, mostly peripheral vison but sharp visual where the pilot looked. Head tracking in the pilot helmet. The entire thing could move with serious G forces.

I clocked up 100s of hours in 737 and 747 sims in my time there so I could "test my software" Never got to fly the military stuff as was in the commercial devision.

Even 20 years ago when I worked on this stuff the tech was right up there. Don't confuse instrument and procedural trainers with the real big boy toys simulators 20 years ago 10million UKP would buy you a very nice toy indeed

Trying to take off in a 737 in one of these things where an engine that fails as you rotate while the cockpit fills with smoke because of a simulated electrical fire with motion running is flipping scary to say the least
Quote from Woz : This pic for example is of a Harrier GR7 sim

I wouldn't mind seeing that picture, but there's something wrong with the link.
Quote from Luke.S :any luck with this?



just look here it is the big ball

http://www.link-miles.co.uk/PicLib.asp#

Ahh thanks for that.

Odd thing though, the first link came up blank at first, but opening the second link (which was fine) made the first link (including the one in Woz's post) work.
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Driving Simulator
(44 posts, started )
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