You're right. Everyone is different! Still doesn't justify why students should be paid for by everyone else. I say everyone else, i mean paid for by people who haven't even been born yet, let alone voted.
You're right. Everyone is different! Still doesn't justify why students should be paid for by everyone else. I say everyone else, i mean paid for by people who haven't even been born yet, let alone voted.
'Investing in the country's future'. AKA bribing the public, with the public's own money
That's the kinda talk Mr Brown used to use. A man, who, sold most of Britain's gold at record low prices, and then bought EUROS with it. Smart guy.... investing in the future'....
Let investors INVEST! They are better at it because their investing their own money at their own risk.
Just to finish - Becky you're opinion isn't outspoken, it's entirely rational.
night night!
Because selling Gold for Euros is completely relevant to ensuring we have enough professionals to sustain something approaching modern standards of living. Yet another sweeping generalisation.
You still haven't grasped the concept that tax payers are expected to help fund higher education because we all need educated professionals, just because they aren't obvious and always in the picture dosen't mean they aren't necessary, something which short sighted and self centred people can't understand. You seem completely oblivious to most of the ways in which the tax you pay benefits you, epsecially in the long run.
You still haven't grasped the concept that tax payers are expected to help fund higher education because we all need educated professionals, just because they aren't obvious and always in the picture dosen't mean they aren't necessary, something which short sighted and self centred people can't understand. You seem completely oblivious to most of the ways in which the tax you pay benefits you, epsecially in the long run.
There is one other point in favour of increasing student loans.
If a students education is paid by the government, then that education funding is a liability on the Govt books. If it is paid by the govt, then students have a debit (loan) on their account, and this shows on the govt books as a credit.
This can be a convenient way to help get the books cooked without having to cut pensions.
This approach is fine when your study is actually likely to bring in the $, it's more concerning if you feel that education has a social aspect which may not be easily quantified in $ terms.
And of course, it has no impact on the wealthy who can easily pay, or even better, deduct from tax. It's only really a problem for the poor ...............
If a students education is paid by the government, then that education funding is a liability on the Govt books. If it is paid by the govt, then students have a debit (loan) on their account, and this shows on the govt books as a credit.
This can be a convenient way to help get the books cooked without having to cut pensions.
This approach is fine when your study is actually likely to bring in the $, it's more concerning if you feel that education has a social aspect which may not be easily quantified in $ terms.
And of course, it has no impact on the wealthy who can easily pay, or even better, deduct from tax. It's only really a problem for the poor ...............
Are you really?
What's your salary? What high-profile positions have you held? Toward which notable achievements has your input been intrinsic?
You seem to be to be a serial fantasist.
I'm happy to report that from being the smartest kid in my year of 1200 students I ultimately acheived very little. But I'm fairly happy with that because I've never starved to death. I've also never arranged a pension so I think one day I will string myself up. At some point after my mother dies I suppose.
@OP Well marches only insight violence, violence is the only way you will get your point across so the authorities review it properly, but I don't agree with the students behaviour, or their cause.
But I'm actually suprised alot of people are on my wavelegnth here.
But I'm actually suprised alot of people are on my wavelegnth here.
Well to a degree, it's true, put it this way, most people who come out of UNI with qualifications don't end up using them. Everyone ends up in a dead end job of sort, there's not a stable job in the world that isn't a dead end job.
Then don't have a dead end job !!!!
Who wants tenure, it just breeds mediocraty ( but better spelling )
Work for yourself and define your own job.
Who wants tenure, it just breeds mediocraty ( but better spelling )
Work for yourself and define your own job.
So in conclusion
Because Becky is a "serial over-achiever" who made it at a non-academic subject (programming) without any real qualifications, nobody needs to go to University ever?
There are some things that you can't just "absorb" and learn - for example how to nVidia design chips? How do we end up with machines such as CERN? There is no way you can do this wthout a LOT of knowledge.
Of course, it's not like Universities actually do any research that makes money... oh wait.
Because Becky is a "serial over-achiever" who made it at a non-academic subject (programming) without any real qualifications, nobody needs to go to University ever?
There are some things that you can't just "absorb" and learn - for example how to nVidia design chips? How do we end up with machines such as CERN? There is no way you can do this wthout a LOT of knowledge.
Of course, it's not like Universities actually do any research that makes money... oh wait.
I left school with qualifications way lower than I should have (mostly GCSE C grades), although I was in the top set at everything, and should have really got A's and went into further education, but I didn't I hated school.
Since then, I've gone from fairly meanial manual jobs, to a quite technical manual job, to a quite technical engineering job, to a very technical CAD job, to a technical architectural job, all without "external" training.
Sure, my wage isn't high (£32K) , but I got there on my own, to be perfectly honest, I really don't think there is anything that anyone can teach you, that you can't learn yourself.
Since then, I've gone from fairly meanial manual jobs, to a quite technical manual job, to a quite technical engineering job, to a very technical CAD job, to a technical architectural job, all without "external" training.
Sure, my wage isn't high (£32K) , but I got there on my own, to be perfectly honest, I really don't think there is anything that anyone can teach you, that you can't learn yourself.
The country would be fine with a thousand students a year, why do some idiots think that just coz that includes a thick no hoper from Eton that they are entitled to the same thing?
And now my tax pound is funding over half of them. Making the whole thing pointless.
When average kids have degrees there is a problem.
As for my personal finances I do ok. My income isn't bad. In short, I have everything I want out of my career. I don't really see how it's any of your business but basically I'm on a professional salary, I'm a Lead Developer.
I don't care that you under achieved with your degree, or that me - a non degree student - out performs you. Frankly, its your problem and has not helped your argument so why you bought it up I'll never know, Shaz.
And now my tax pound is funding over half of them. Making the whole thing pointless.
When average kids have degrees there is a problem.
As for my personal finances I do ok. My income isn't bad. In short, I have everything I want out of my career. I don't really see how it's any of your business but basically I'm on a professional salary, I'm a Lead Developer.
I don't care that you under achieved with your degree, or that me - a non degree student - out performs you. Frankly, its your problem and has not helped your argument so why you bought it up I'll never know, Shaz.
That's true, but you'd succeded much quicker if you'd taken the academic approach. Of course there's a huge difference between theoratical teachings and learning by doing, but that doesn't mean that theoretical knowledge is futile. Quite on the contrary: if you can learn something by imitation, it doesn't neccessarily make you understand the principles behind it, thus it denies any further progress, or slows it down considerably.
And just as a sidenote: I dropped out of two different universities, still found a great job in my field. But it was a real struggle and I was quite desperate at times. So yes, there are drop-outs and autodidacts without formal education who have success, but they are the exception, NOT the rule!
There are plenty of privately funded universities that are leading the scientific research field. The idea that there needs to be a massive state-subsidy is wrong, it always has been wrong.
Fact is there is no money, there never was any money to pay for this. This idea you can go around just taxing the rich because 'they can afford it' is remarkable. On one hand people say we need to reward aspiration and freedom, and then on the other you taketh with punishment for success via confiscation of wealth and goods. Which does have massive detrimental effects to the real economy of the people.
The debate isn't about the value of universities, it's their funding. No one will deny ther value of some, not all, courses and degrees.
However this tired old argument of "but students give back to society more than what they cost" is just untrue. Look, socialism works really well when you get in bed with the bankers, create a fake boom, print a load of fiat currency, and you have a lot of funny money paying for this illusion, but when it all comes crashing down please don't use the same disproven arguments that caused this mess in the first place.
No one has once yet given a valid argument as to why someone who works a minimum wage of around £12k or so a year has 50% of their earned income taken away from them so a history student can have a subsidised degree. It makes no moral sense, or even economic sense.
How many of you lot were in the protests BTW? Chris758 was, and know many others were, too.
You're wasting your breath intrepid, they'll figure it out how hyperinflation starts about, say, 3 hours after we do here in the US.
I can see why the Government would want to educate its people, but on that same accord, I don't see this as the envirnment to do it in, nor is it comming about in the right way. I firmly beleive in the open market, so I think the government should offer incentives to become educated rather than handing out money (forgive me if I have taken this incorrectly).
Of course my ideas are a little diffeerent than most. I've always said that the US should raise teriffs against China and other low income nations (and opting out of NAFTA) to protect our workers. I'd see the same as a good idea in France, England, ect. I don't see rasing teriffs against other equaly developed nations such as these to be good so that there is some fair competition that would improve product qualifty, but hey, who am I?
On a side note: Isn't UK supposedly trying to catch up to the US in education or something? Well, the US isn't the best educated nation around either.
Of course my ideas are a little diffeerent than most. I've always said that the US should raise teriffs against China and other low income nations (and opting out of NAFTA) to protect our workers. I'd see the same as a good idea in France, England, ect. I don't see rasing teriffs against other equaly developed nations such as these to be good so that there is some fair competition that would improve product qualifty, but hey, who am I?
On a side note: Isn't UK supposedly trying to catch up to the US in education or something? Well, the US isn't the best educated nation around either.
Makes me wonder if its all so easy to teach yourself, why hardly any of you have much to show for your wonderful self teaching exploits?
Essentially you're dictating to me about a system of education and a way of life that you have no first hand experience of.
Essentially you're dictating to me about a system of education and a way of life that you have no first hand experience of.
So what's it to be?
What i do I know is that a poor acedemic record and leaving education at 16 can get you if you just work hard
this
What Becky is saying is she doesn't want to PAY FOR YOU ANY MORE! Whether you like it or not, via the threat of jail, it's Becky's hard work that pays for your so-called 'free' education. The economic and social benefits of socialised higher education are from a certainty, in fact they can have the opposite effect. Time for students to grow up a little bit.
Lets see what you've achieved then? In nearly every thread you post in you make some vague claim about 'having worked in the industry', but I've yet to see you actually back up anything.
Sorry but I don't see how a free education can leave me several tens of thousands of pounds in the red, but lets not let the facts get in the way!
Also again you completely fail to understand why state money is put into education, because it benefits the nation, but I guess thats to be expected from a mind as closed as yours.
I am not going to sit here and list my 'achievements' to prove you don't need higher education to be successful. It's pointless.
Put it this way - I don't care how successful someone is or isn't if they get a degree. That's their personal responsibility. What the objection is that VIA THE THREAT OF JAIL we have to pay for you!
If the state knew what was good for the nation please explain to me why we have 4.1 Trillion of national debt?
Where were all these educated economists when we were digging ourselves in the shit? great job guys, really GREAT job!
And then it's our hard work that pays Becky's pension
Again you fail to understand that educated professionals benefit everyone.
Haha, as if education is the single cause of the national debt, there were other causes too, like some not paying billions of tax and MPs taking public money for themselves. Out of all the things public money is spent and wasted on, education is one of the most worthwhile investments, regardless of if you think you can become a rocket scientist by reading wikipedia.
Exactly, the amount of hypocrisy in this thread is shocking, how would you feel when you got old enough to need some assistance that I didn't want to support you out of nothing but selfish greed?
No, because you can't, its pretty clear that you're all talk and no action.
either you honestly don't believe that someone else is being forced to help pay for your education or are you just being difficult for the sake of it. I suspect the latter.
Also the answer to the virgin atlantic puzzle was "Richard Branson" who dropped out of formal schooling at 16 adn hsa dysxalie
edit; you guys are quick that was for 5haz
Also the answer to the virgin atlantic puzzle was "Richard Branson" who dropped out of formal schooling at 16 adn hsa dysxalie
edit; you guys are quick that was for 5haz
You wouldn't have to if people could keep more of their own wealth they create through real productive work (which benefits us all), and save. A minimum wage worker will pay over a £250,000 in tax over a lifetime. Kinda says it all really.
Is This Lawful?
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