Ah but there is room for two cars in both places. Look up Schumacher vs Hamilton - Loews, Schumacher vs Rosberg - Loews, Hamilton vs Schumacher - Ste devote.
All of them show that two cars can get through. Even a race start means there a several cars side by side at Ste Devote.
Its worth noting that Schumacher drove an exemplary race. He defended where possible, took chances where they presented themselves, but conceded the corner where he left a gap. Even against Barrichello he didn't try to close the door. Maybe its because he's being scrutinised by everyone right now, but he certainly drove fairly.
All of them show that two cars can get through. Even a race start means there a several cars side by side at Ste Devote.
Its worth noting that Schumacher drove an exemplary race. He defended where possible, took chances where they presented themselves, but conceded the corner where he left a gap. Even against Barrichello he didn't try to close the door. Maybe its because he's being scrutinised by everyone right now, but he certainly drove fairly.
That's why you concede a corner before you get to the apex which PM should have done after leaving such a gaping hole.. you know like Schumi did... **sigh**
Why couldn't Hamilton concede the corner?
... physics.
Brakes...
Eyesight...
Brain...
Eyesight...
Brain...
I wonder what people would be saying if it was the other way around... I'm sure in the past when Hamilton has had contact, it's never his fault; he had the right to turn in or to brake, and the other guy should have backed out of the move that wasn't going to work.
At least Hamilton's escapades, whether right or wrong, good or bad, silly or racy, provide entertainment. I'd be quite happy if he never learns to relax behind the wheel and keeps causing (or being involved in) drama because it generates interest.
At least Hamilton's escapades, whether right or wrong, good or bad, silly or racy, provide entertainment. I'd be quite happy if he never learns to relax behind the wheel and keeps causing (or being involved in) drama because it generates interest.
In fairness to Hamilton he did actually prove that you could be overtaken cleanly at Monaco when Schumacher passed him at the hairpin. Hamilton does concede corners when someone is clearly on his inside, unlike other drivers, so it's not often that the shoe is on the other foot.
For me this is the worst of all this situation. I don´t agree with you saying that Kobayashi incident was similar. He just lost it under braking and hit the rear tyre of Sutil´s car gaining a place that way. That was not an overtake going wrong, but a driver´s mistake that caused an incident. And later Sutil with a puncture, instead of letting the other drivers pass him, decides to keep on the racing line, causing the incident that led to the race being stopped. Regardless of the way one feels about Hamilton´s penalties, those two events above are far worse, in my opinion, and none of them, as far as I know, was even looked into.
Koby was given a reprimand I believe.
It's quite common for stewards to target certain drivers over others. It happens all the time in all forms of motorsport.
It's quite common for stewards to target certain drivers over others. It happens all the time in all forms of motorsport.
You missed my previous post? I think it rather proved that he would act exactly like Massa or Maldonado if he was in their place. Clearly is such a wrong term to use since he wasn't clearly inside. He was barely inside and went for closing gaps. How many times have you seen Hamilton push someone to grass? I've seen him do that few times. Do you think that's fair since the other driver is clearly there and Hamilton just turns in and pushes them away from the track?
Didn't wanna hav to say this coz I'll get slated so I know what's coming
but Juzaa ... I've raced Hamilton and I never had a problem with him. Never put me on the grass because I knew when to concede a corner. He raced the same then as he does now. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt. So being on the recieving end of an aggressive Hamilton pass myself, I can safely say you're talking baloney unless you've experienced a Hamilton pass yourself (I suspect you haven't) Even Brundle has come out and said he thought the penalties were harsh.
I think the most important part is the intent. I've seen many good drivers feign a chop across someone's nose to scare them off the track, but when it actually involves contact, then it is most definitely wrong. Take for example the move Schumacher made on Barrichello. He not only feigned a chop, but kept pushing. This was wrong and he was brought to account.
Because a driver takes to the grass by being frightened, is different to actually being pushed.
Because a driver takes to the grass by being frightened, is different to actually being pushed.
what the frig could he had done to concede?
As soon as he's commited for trying to pass down the inside, he wouldn't exactly be braking not hard enough so he could brake harder to concede.
Eyesight, it looks like it's PM that's lacking that.
Brain, I wouldn't say either was at fault, just a racing incident. But PM should have and could have conceeded the corner. As soon as he turned in on Lewis an accident was always going to happen. And I guess losing 2 points for losing a position from 6th to 7th is much better than losing 7th place which is worth a much needed 6 points for Williams?
For the Massa incident, of cos he wasn't completely inside because Massa was trying so desperately to defend he ran into the back of Webber. If he didn't do that he would had to be slower, and thus Lewis would've been completely inside him.
How about the massive run off area on the inside?
It isn't a race when walking to the burger van!
"Even" Brundle? You mean, as if your opinion wasn't enough, EVEN Brundle, who's opinion you'd normally ignore, has said it. Funny, at the time (when the call had to be made on whether it was a penalty or not) he felt Lewis was at fault.
If we're all considering this from a hindsight perspective then a lot of opinions might be different. You HAVE to consider it from the point of view of the stewards at that moment in time. They might have had more videos to look at than on the world feed, but they still had to make a call within minutes.
Having a week to consider what happened means it isn't fair to compare that to the feeling at the time. Besides, they obviously knew it wasn't entirely the right call with Maldonado because they gave him a time penalty that didn't change the results.
I'm not saying he's a total maniac all the time or anything like that. I'm saying that he does mistakes more often that most other professional drivers and refuses to take blame because of his ego. He has not made a mistake against you. So what? If he had treated everyone poorly and caused crashes all the time he wouldn't be in F1 right now. And why should I have raced against him when I can see errors he has done from my couch. If he had come and said even 50% of the time he does mistakes that ''My fault, sorry'' I wouldn't have cared less if he had crashed Massa and Maldonado. Since everyone makes mistakes. It's human. He causes dangerous positions too much and doesn't learn from them. 5 warnings in last 6 races. The warnings don't come without reason. 99% of the time.
I used to respect Hamilton as a fast driver but all his comments, the way he acts, how he blames others and doesn't respect other drivers just pisses me off. He needs to grow up.
Of course you'd concede the corner. Blue flagged cars should never compete with lead lap cars/karts.
And to be honest, Brundle has the most right to make a statement like this, because he was in a midfield car most of his career, he knows what avoiding-contact and overtaking is all about.
Yes he does make more mistakes than most drivers because of his driving style. but i can't say i've seen him doing anything dangerous, schuey pushing barichello into the pitwall was dangerous, he races close but also fair imo and thats not to say he hasn't made mistakes but if it's clear cut he usually admits it's his fault and tbh most of the drivers on the grid won't admit they're in the wrong on a 50/50 incident, look at massa, he was blaming hamilton for him crashing out of the tunnel when hamilton wasn't anywhere near him, don't see you bringing that up though.
Whatever you think, his driving style obviously works and it's exciting to watch. You think hammy would have started cruising behind alonso and vettel 10 laps till the end waiting for a miracle and the race to fall at his feet like button did? He doesn't need a sudden downpour or a different stratergy to overtake people, with him its purely speed and skill.
If The FIA wants any consistency they should of gave hamilton a 20 second penalty for '' creating a possible scenario of avoidable contact'' as it was basically the exact same move but Maldonado turned in on him instead of making room or yielding.
have a look at this(from racedepartment forums): http://www.racedepartment.com/ ... 2011-a-10.html#post835750
The funny thing was Hamilton was actually more in front of Maldonado then Schumacher.
have a look at this(from racedepartment forums): http://www.racedepartment.com/ ... 2011-a-10.html#post835750
The funny thing was Hamilton was actually more in front of Maldonado then Schumacher.
Every time you cause a collision it's dangerous. Look at what happened to Petrov in last race. He hurt his leg in a collision that didn't look bad at all. When you're racing 200 km/h and hit other driver there's always a chance that something goes wrong. I admit that Schumi's incident with barrichello was dangerous and shouldn't have been done but we're not talking about Schumacher here.
You also seemed to forget that in order to overtake you must be a lot faster than the other one when racing in Monaco. They all had new tires and were about as fast with them. How can you overtake if you can't get close enough? You're right that Hamilton probably would've tried something very stupid and risked his points if he was in Buttons shoes but he wasn't. Why? because Button drove better this weekend. Don't forget that Hamilton's passes succeeded against way slower opponents than himself. Comparing Schumacher with Mercedes against Vettel or Alonso is just insane.
About his driving style. Of course he's fast. It's not his driving style that puts him into trouble it's his mind. He does mistakes, pushes himself into corners, waves around the straight trying to prevent other passing. Those aren't things that make him faster. They are things keeping Hamilton from gaining the necessary points to win more championships. He needs to learn how to control his temper like Schumacher did when he was at his best. Winning one race isn't that important. Getting good points from all races to win the championship is.
I haven't seen Massa's comments about the tunnel so can't say anything about that. Maybe you could provide me a link?
You really gotta love Hamilton. He managed to get more 2 and a half more posts here on his behaviour than the whole Barcelona thread - still up and counting:rolleyes:
A good way to boost the fans' interrest: replace all Tilkedromes by tricky street courses, put a few random DRS areas, always oblige Hamilton to start from the very back. Then throw some competition cautions if you don't get enough controversial incidents.
A good way to boost the fans' interrest: replace all Tilkedromes by tricky street courses, put a few random DRS areas, always oblige Hamilton to start from the very back. Then throw some competition cautions if you don't get enough controversial incidents.
Formula 1 Grand Prix De Monaco 2011
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