And Hamilton still went for it, even though what little gap there was had pretty much disappeared before the braking zone. No wonder the world and his horse are against him at the moment because he appears to have lost the ability to think whilst driving.
He can't be that stupid, he still finished 6th and Massa finished in the wall. And if Lewis is stupid then what does that say about all the drivers behind him in the championship standings.
And no doubt you'll be the only guy in the Senna movie moaning about how thoughtless and stupid Senna was trying to pass Prost at Suzuka (the first time)
Was that Schumacher retaking Barrichello at 0:20? He passed under waved yellows and let him back through. Fair shout. Somehow I missed that on the Beeb.
Hamilton's penalty was right imo, but Massa and his complaints to Autosport afterwards about more penalties simply don't wash. That camera angle shows he really was likely to have hit Webber anyway.
Edit: Ironically it was Alonso who was the only driver to hit the nose debris too.
Sutil was very lucky in the fact that his puncture didn't cost him anything thanks to the red flag. And what caused the red flag was because the cars immediately behind him, who was about to pass him anyway, crashed into the walls in the swimming pool chicanes.
And when did he repeated cheating and lying? My memories are fading so please illustrate some example.
As for rule bending, this is what F1 is all about isn't it?
I simply don't buy what he said about being pushed into Webber.
May be I havn't watched the replay enough, or that I need better glasses, but to me Massa was desperately not letting Lewis through. So he turned in on him, didn't scrub off as much speed as he should while trying to not let Lewis get completely alongside him, which resulted in him running into the back of Webber.
To be fair, Lewis is an agreesive drivers, what he attempted to put on Massa and Maldonado wasn't much different to the passes he pulled on Button and Vettel in China. He wasn't alongside them in those scenario, but because they were obviously the smarter drivers, they realise there were no point in risking wrecking their race and gave Lewis room. Unfortunately to Lewis, Massa and Maldonado weren't exactly the brightest drivers out there. So his overtake didn't pull off and resulted in him being penalised.
And come to think of it, if Lewis turned in on Michael on the first lap in the hairpin, would Michael then get a penalty too?
You don't need intelligence to be fast driver. Basically all you need to be fast is instinct, training and some natural talent. Driver's speed doesn't tell about his intelligence. The amount of crashes might have something to do with lack of intelligence but most likely just bad decisions that have to be made in extremely short time. What tells of Hamilton's idiocy is his comments about how he's the best, all others are stupid and it's never his fault. Also throwing the black card even as a joke tells me that we're talking about a real idiot. He miraculously survives because Mclaren seems to have some control over him and they make him apologize about the worst comments.
Don't start telling me that driver's need to understand their cars etc. since they don't, only few do and understanding what part does what isn't intelligence. The most idiotic person I ever met was a car mechanic (can also be translated to maniac) who had absolutely no grasp of reality and could only understand cars.
With Massa you can't just look at where he turned since you're taking him out of the situation that he was in. Tell me Intrepid - since you're a ''racer'' -what do you do when you're in the middle clearly way ahead the one behind you (who's inside) and the one outside is turning in where is the ''normal racing line'' do you do as Hamilton would've done and crashed, blaming the the other guy turned in on you as a purpose (never thinking about that maybe the one in front was allowed to turn and had to turn because of the turn) or do you turn in trying not to hit the driver who's outside since the driver behind you can clearly see the situation, both of your cars and knows that there's no way 3 drivers can fit in that corner.
Or if you were in Hamilton's place and you knew that the corner has barely enough room for 2 people would you still push for a closing gap instead of braking and changing your driving line to make sure that if the other 2 hit each others' you'll get a better chance to pass them in the next few corners?
All you are doing is throwing wild accusations in attempt to defend Hamilton but I fail to see your point in that. Also when arguing about a subject trying to (instead of talking about the subject and defending your point of view) undermine your opposers usually means that you know you're wrong and try to destroy your opposers' credibility. I wonder what that tells about you and your view of the situation.
And JCTK; does ending up to talk with the stewards 5 times out of 6 races classify as repeated? It means he's done something wrong when he ends up there. He also was weaving in order to defend his position in Malaysia 2010 and 2011 which is quite repeated too in my books.
You can see that there was room from Massa's point of view. Webber had also passed the apex and was thus accelerating. Without Hamilton Massa could've turned much more inside and would've not been pushed into Webber. Their driving lines would've collided later if they had driven at the exact same speed through the corner. With Webber accelerating at the later point Webber could've already gotten away enough. You also have brakes in F1 cars that the drivers use frequently to slow themselves to avoid collisions. (apart from Hamilton) The faster you go the more a same time difference between drivers is in meters.
I admit that part of Massa's turn may have been due to Hamilton's pressure but he did start to turn in when Hamilton's front wing was at the same level as Massa's rear tires which is completely acceptable. Hamilton pushed himself into a position that could only result in collision with Massa. Hamilton was lucky that he didn't destroy his front wing.
Could someone who's on Hamilton's side please explain how Hamilton would've not collided with Massa if Massa had driven behind Webber since Hamilton would've turned in pretty much like Massa did now. If you are correct that Massa would've hit Webber that also means that Hamilton would've hit Massa or Webber which makes his move a fail no matter what happens. (unless Massa just turns away and gives up which Hamilton naturally assumes he's going to do. Right?)
You wanted an answer and I gave you footage with the best angle that had the information you wanted. I'm not saying I didn't see any other footage I just decided to give you that one because of the angle.
Any explanation? Of course not. You don't even try to prove me wrong just state something you've already decided and stick to it. I'm always open for debate but you guys really need to do something else than post a footage and then say ''it happened exactly as I say''. It clearly didn't since Hamilton's move was ruled worthy of a penalty.
I've read back and don't see anyone defending Hamilton over that incident. He took a chance that Massa was going to stay wide, and could have backed out of it. I'll repeat my conclusion for fear of being tarred with the "all you Hamilton guys" brush.
Hamilton deserved that penalty - "having an avoidable accident"
However. It does seem unanimous that Massa did take a strange line, did turn in much earlier. If any defence can be offered to Hamilton is this.
Any driver seeing the situation unfold as it it did in front of them, could have been mistaken that Massa was going to stay wide. Webber took a late apex, and that gap was always going to close. What driver in their right mind would enter the corner at that angle, that speed, and with limited steering lock to attempt a pass on someone making a late apex? If Massa had been alongside Webber, Webber would have been obliged to stay wide - as many other drivers did throughout the race - but he was quite some way back. It simply boils down to this. Massa either made a very stupid move to overtake Webber and would probably have hit him anyway, or he ran into Hamilton while Lewis had got alongside.
Massa was the cause of that whole incident, and Hamilton could have avoided it, but decided to try and take advantage of it, and got the penalty where Massa got off scot free.
Now that's something written with thought. I agree with you about 90% of that. I still disagree with you about Massa's probability to hit Webber but that's only a minor detail in this whole mess and since we don't have any numbers about their speeds we can't calculate whether Massa would've hit Webber or not and thus find an answer that's absolutely correct.
Well, this is the reason I don´t agree with Hamilton´s penalty. One thing is you taking a defensive line to a corner to avoid the car behind you trying to overtake. Another is to turn in early and take an unusual line after you left a gap open and the other driver has started to overtake. If an incident happens it´s also your fault, and should be considered a racing incident.
Lol. Now I see why sticking in this thread is pointless. Because most of people supporting Hamilton are like you.
My posts are about explaining my point of view and telling you why I'm right. You on the other hand can't even say why you think you're right. That proves that you haven't even considered the fact that you might be wrong or that you haven't even analyzed the whole situation without having already decided where you stand. And here you are saying that arguing is pointless crap? You my friend never got to the point and apparently don't even recognize that.
I have not had a favourite driver since Kimi Räikkönen, so there goes your guess. I only watch F1 for the racing. As much as Hamilton causes excitement he is dangerous and doesn't obey the rules. I do not wish anyone to get penalties for nothing since I couldn't care less who wins the championship. You on the other hand seem quite agressive which I assume is caused by your lack of evidence to support your side of the story.
You've never raced Hamilton so where's YOUR evidence of him being dangerous. He's one of the cleanest drivers I've ever raced against, and his style is no different now than it was 10 years ago. His style of racing rarely causes accidents... it's Massa's and Pastor's that cause the most trouble. What's dangerous is drivers who think their mirrors are there for decoration and don't understand that racing occasionally includes out-braking manoeuvres into corners.
Smart drivers concede a lost corner (Hamilton, Schumacher 8x wdc championships between them). How many WDC have PM and FM won?
That is such a moot point as Hamilton could still be a 0x World Champion if it wasn't for a bit more rain at Brazil 2008. I don't believe Hamilton is dangerous, and I don't believe he did much wrong against Massa at Monaco, but what would your argument be if Glock hadn't suddenly struggled for grip and Massa was a World Champion and Hamilton not?
Pity he broke down just a little bit later in that lap.