Hi there ! Well if Scawen,Eric and Victor read this please,pretty please have a couple new tracks that are interesting.I just saw real footage of the Rockingham track and through it looks very well modeled it is nothing more than an oval speedway with various internal configurations.

http://www.rockingham.co.uk/about/rockingham-circuits.php

Basically its a simplier version of daytona and indianapolis as it misses the crazy banking those ovals have....

I know i am very negative on many things and i often speak about the same thing....make contests for car models as there are amazing talented users in lfsmods...but after actually seeing the infamous new track i realised that after a couple of weeks when novelty wears off nobody will play this track.Its nice having it for god's shake but it's not something special.For example having norchliefe,rouen,spa,isle of man,valencia,pau,macau,circue de la sarthe(le mans),monaco,monde carlo,singapure,monza etc...those are legendary tracks....If you cannot get a license you could change their names -still everybody knows them like the back of their hand....

Lfs in my book still is the best feeling sim out there but...eventually it will be surpassed as grand prix legends eventually did no matter how good the handling was.Lfs needs a graphical improvement and more high quality interesting content...Even 3-4 (run of the mill )tracks in the long term would do nothing to increase lfs life..The game needs either some of the best real tracks or some astonishing fictional tracks.I mean who does not remember the fantastic road segments in the original nfs,or ridge city in ridge racer or grand valley in gt....

but better tracks costs money


and Rockingham is already very good choice!

I'm a roval hater too, and I totally agree on the fact that Rockingham, as a track, is worthless. Now I'm just happy that LFS is going to get more content overall - one day. Sure most of us probably would've prefered a more interresting track, but what can we do? Not to mention that we do not even totally know the details of the deal and the devs' situation, so we are we to judge?

Now on the modding part, I belive the devs' position has been extremely clear on the matter over the years. No?

We have people in the iRacing forum asking them to create some fantasy tracks, for the sake of variety. You'll never please everyone :rolleyes:

Also, shallow banking doesn't always mean simpler, crazy banking makes it easy to take flat out most of the time, so the unique Rockingham oval should be more of a challenge that Kyoto for example.

But what is Indy, if nothing more than a oval speedway with a infield road course? Same with Daytona, and other tracks. You wouldn't say no to those though.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Sure most of us probably would've prefered a more interresting track, but what can we do?

We can stop supporting this "never-ending-development" game... and try to support other games...

Quote from justasimfan :

Hi there ! Well if Scawen,Eric and Victor read this please,pretty please have a couple new tracks that are interesting.I just saw real footage of the Rockingham track and through it looks very well modeled it is nothing more than an oval speedway with various internal configurations.

http://www.rockingham.co.uk/about/rockingham-circuits.php

Basically its a simplier version of daytona and indianapolis as it misses the crazy banking those ovals have....

I know i am very negative on many things and i often speak about the same thing....make contests for car models as there are amazing talented users in lfsmods...but after actually seeing the infamous new track i realised that after a couple of weeks when novelty wears off nobody will play this track.Its nice having it for god's shake but it's not something special.For example having norchliefe,rouen,spa,isle of man,valencia,pau,macau,circue de la sarthe(le mans),monaco,monde carlo,singapure,monza etc...those are legendary tracks....If you cannot get a license you could change their names -still everybody knows them like the back of their hand....

Lfs in my book still is the best feeling sim out there but...eventually it will be surpassed as grand prix legends eventually did no matter how good the handling was.Lfs needs a graphical improvement and more high quality interesting content...Even 3-4 (run of the mill )tracks in the long term would do nothing to increase lfs life..The game needs either some of the best real tracks or some astonishing fictional tracks.I mean who does not remember the fantastic road segments in the original nfs,or ridge city in ridge racer or grand valley in gt....

I'm not disagreeing with you that in the future LFS needs to have better tracks.
However, just give scavier a break. They are already working hard to get S3 out, so obviously this will not happen anytime in the future.

Also, do you realize how hard it is to just put in all these tracks you suggest? Well, first they need to travel there, laser-scan the whole track, which takes a very long time, then make it LFS-ready. AND it's not cheap, by any stretch of the imagination.

Long story short:
None of the tracks you suggest are coming anytime soon, so just give the devs a break, and enjoy LFS the way it is right now.

Didn't we just get about 100+ More new tracks just recently? Hmm okay then...

Quote from boothy :

We have people in the iRacing forum asking them to create some fantasy tracks, for the sake of variety. You'll never please everyone :rolleyes:

I agree with them quite frankly. Today's international tracks are really dull as a whole, except the few that didn't get Tilke-ised too much.

I would personally prefer a new fictional track for LFS to most of today's international tracks. Westhill, Fern Bay or Kyoto GP already beat most of them hands down, in terms of overall challenge, the devs did a great job with them, nevermind of the few silly things(high kerbs, etc) still present on them.

Quote from Snooops :

We can stop supporting this "never-ending-development" game... and try to support other games...

Exactly, what are we waiting for then? Let's close LFSF right now, find another game, pretend we are "supporting" them just because we bought the one-time 30€ license, then moan on their forums because we didn't receive our free updates in time.

Quote from Zay :

I'm not disagreeing with you that in the future LFS needs to have better tracks.
However, just give scavier a break. They are already working hard to get S3 out, so obviously this will not happen anytime in the future.

Also, do you realize how hard it is to just put in all these tracks you suggest? Well, first they need to travel there, laser-scan the whole track, which takes a very long time, then make it LFS-ready. AND it's not cheap, by any stretch of the imagination.

Long story short:
None of the tracks you suggest are coming anytime soon, so just give the devs a break, and enjoy LFS the way it is right now.

I am really happy that lfs development is not dead as many people were afraid including me as shown in the recent updates.But i want to be honest about some things because lying or padding someone in the back does not always help them in the end if you get what i mean.I really hope Scawen,Eric and Victor read this thread because it is as important as a graphical update or weather effects are...or maybe even more....

For god's shake nobody asks ALL those tracks to be implemented in lfs..Those tracks took a lot of time to perfect in the rfactor community,and many months/years to finish in gt5 which almost has them all...

But it is not impossible to add a couple of them,because even if licensing is expensive you can bypass it by changing the names..You can have each real track by its country it is located,for example have monza as italian precision,norchlife as german challenge etc.. And through i would love those tracks to be laser scanned the truth is that there is SO much wealth of information on those tracks that they can be faithfully reproduced without laser scanning(As there are photos of every single bump/hole).Just play f1 2010 and believe it or not no track is laser scanned(ofcourse f1 is not lfs or rfactor or iracing but still it still has the most amazing tracks ever).

And i would be more than happy having a few fictional tracks as long as they are quality ones.I mean fern bay black/long is my favorite track.Making something fictional like a coastal road segment or a hill climb or a longer and bigger city track would bring some refreshing and rejuvinating air to lfs.
Sorry for the long post but i truly feel that something special is needed to keep people interested in the game.

Quote from justasimfan :

I mean fern bay black/long is my favorite track.

I don't want to start another witch hunt, but how can you use it exactly?

He plays it at his brothers house. Even if he is a cracker, He makes a good point about the tracks.

*Prays for no flame*

Quote from justasimfan :

(...) And through i would love those tracks to be laser scanned the truth is that there is SO much wealth of information on those tracks that they can be faithfully reproduced without laser scanning(As there are photos of every single bump/hole).Just play f1 2010 and believe it or not no track is laser scanned(ofcourse f1 is not lfs or rfactor or iracing but still it still has the most amazing tracks ever).

With laser scanning you receive a point cloud that can be automatically converted to in-game track surface after some pre-production. You don't have to create the surface manually, so the process is accurate and fast. When recreating the track from photos it is possible to create a track with fair accuracy of the road camber and height differences but you wont be able to recreate the small bumps, slight camber changes or the fine details. If you try, it would take vast amount of time to reach the moment when you wont have enough data to verify whether the bump should be one meter to the left or right.

Some tracks in F1 2010 are a joke. Compare Silverstone corners from old layout and iRacing recreation - some corners barely resembles the laser scanned ones.

I certainly wouldn't mind if LFS added one or two real tracks some day, though I don't feel the need to have legends aka Monza or Monaco in LFS. There are tons of other interesting and challenging tracks all over the world, so why go with the "defaults" you've driven on in fifty other sims?
Also if the devs decide to give us another real track, it should be done properly with laser scanning, licencing, etc. There is nothing worse than a half-baked imitation that screams "hey, I'm Norschleife, but don't tell anyone 'cause I'm not exaclty licensed". If nothing else it looks very unprofessional. A fictional track that doesn't try to look and feel like something else and lets loose author's creativity and fantasy sound to me like a much better solution.

Quote from justasimfan :

it is nothing more than an oval speedway with various internal configurations.

Very good! You have gained 100 xp in your superpower of observing the obvious!

For every 10 tracks, there should be one real track. That real track, as MadCat said, should be scanned, licensed, etc. It should be done right. However don't overdo the fact that "we want a real track". It takes time, money, and other things in the end we don't really want. That's why limiting it to 1 for every 8-10 tracks is a better option.

Plus fictional tracks can be much more exciting IMO if done correctly. You learn something about the track each time you run it. Different lines and braking points for different cars that you didn't know until you spoke with someone else. Real tracks have too much criticism that comes along with it. As much as you see "we want a real track" you will see "The real track is not 100% accurate".

justasimfan: You have expressed your opinions about various sims on various forums, however I have never seen you with the purchased content. When you express your opinions, they sound pretty silly as if you don't know the true sim.

In any case, we all know the fictional tracks need work. They need more proper elevation changes, more defining corners (Eau Rouge), and more overall road feel (bumps/dips/cambers).

Oh and I think we can all agree that we need some new proper chicanes.

Rfaktor shows clearly, its never enough Tracks or Cars for the Community.
Better keep the Balance as hundreds moded Tracks & Cars.

Justasimfan... Please edit the title of this thread, left as it is it just screams bad english.

As for real tracks LFS doesn’t need real tracks as this would just bring up the old arguments that "X car can lap faster at Y track in this sim so it must be better physics" ect.
I think that more fictional content for lfs would be a greater advantage, and should be easier to make and cheaper too, unless track
owners are giving away laser data?

I'm sure by now the US probably has a satellite or 2 that could scan the track from space by now anyway

SD.

SparkyDave is spot-on right on this one.

LFS has been a huge success because of it's inherent driving feel.

From the start (when it was simply the best piece of software to run with an attached ffb-wheel) it attracted the real driving enthusiasts by the bucket load. It wasn't at all harder to drive than other good sims of the same era - it just felt down-right better to drive than most of the other stuff!

Plus - the user interface is of a so much more "straight-forward" design than in most of the other successful titles that are still around and being played, today. A huge plus imho. I like that special focus on the workings that lie deep within the sim and the apparent lack of optical sophistication regarding the "set-up-my-car&race" experience. No fancy animated sequences when I press ONE button inside the menu-system. When the nfs-hobby-modder (i.e. "player") is done repainting his wing I've already adjusted my suspension travel, changed my steering settings and picked the right brake-bias based on feel -- and I'm ready to go racing. No penis-enlarging self-promotion through autistic pixel- and sound rituals. Just plain racing!

I immediately got sucked into driving fictional car-models that actually felt more real than anything licensed that I had had the joy of piloting on my PC-monitor - period.

Therefore: more tracks, please. They are absolutely needed. Fern Bay gets old driving round-and-round there. There are definitely some good tracks out there in the real world - that just don't get the credit they deserve. Because they are not suitable for F1 races to be held on them. Think about it Fern Bay and F1? Wouldn't mix!

However each and every RL-track was first created in the mind of their creators, then ran through some tough search for money and only at the end, after they were sculpted into the dirt by some bad-ass sweaty hands and sleepless hours/days/months of hard work - only then could some rich bitches (professional racing drivers, at the time of dawn of the sport) get on with their task and finally race on them. Finding some good lines and fighting for position clearly came AFTER all that.

My point is: every good and/or historic track started out as fiction. In the real world there are only few that really learn to drive ONE hard and long track perfectly. But racecraft was never about perfection of the monotonous same piece of tarmac/dirt/whatever. The real passion is found in variety. Only one track in the world would be pretty damn boring. Even if it was the Nordschleife. I mean, yes, satisfaction can be achieved running one track for every single day of my life. But very certainly the fun would fade eventually. When perfecting the already better than everyone else's lap-time and line becomes repetetive, running that track over and over again, widening the gap when no one else is able to really compete anymore, isn't this the opposite of fun? Hard and honest work, yes - but fun?

Get a grip! If you want real-world tracks that badly: go "I-racing". Lots of ovals to chose from :P

I'm more or less on the lookout for tracks that are fun in an every-day car. Like the xrg/xfg/mini to "lrf-class" and so on. Different kinds of road-tyres, car-like handling with minimum artificial down-force. Maybe with a chunk more power than today's car models, even. And please give me more elevation-changes, switch-backs, hill-climbs and longer, more twisty and challenging, winding _narrow_(!) tracks to make me work my car more and more! Oh and don't forget to feed some other good stuff to the open wheeler guys, they (your customers) deserve that, as well!

I'm all for fictional. Make it brilliant - no excuses for not giving us "Spa" or other lame high-speed, too-wide-for-our-own-good historic tracks. Just tracks - and more of them, with that excellent blend of variety that the current ones have introduced to us - Tracks are all that we really need! Some new and fresh pieces of tarmac/dirt/gravel to race on.

Quote from SparkyDave :

Justasimfan... Please edit the title of this thread, left as it is it just screams bad english.

As for real tracks LFS doesn’t need real tracks as this would just bring up the old arguments that "X car can lap faster at Y track in this sim so it must be better physics" ect.
I think that more fictional content for lfs would be a greater advantage, and should be easier to make and cheaper too, unless track
owners are giving away laser data?

I'm sure by now the US probably has a satellite or 2 that could scan the track from space by now anyway

SD.

Quote from DrBen :

SparkyDave is spot-on right on this one.

LFS has been a huge success because of it's inherent driving feel.

From the start (when it was simply the best piece of software to run with an attached ffb-wheel) it attracted the real driving enthusiasts by the bucket load. It wasn't at all harder to drive than other good sims of the same era - it just felt down-right better to drive than most of the other stuff!

Plus - the user interface is of a so much more "straight-forward" design than in most of the other successful titles that are still around and being played, today. A huge plus imho. I like that special focus on the workings that lie deep within the sim and the apparent lack of optical sophistication regarding the "set-up-my-car&race" experience. No fancy animated sequences when I press ONE button inside the menu-system. When the nfs-hobby-modder (i.e. "player") is done repainting his wing I've already adjusted my suspension travel, changed my steering settings and picked the right brake-bias based on feel -- and I'm ready to go racing. No penis-enlarging self-promotion through autistic pixel- and sound rituals. Just plain racing!

I immediately got sucked into driving fictional car-models that actually felt more real than anything licensed that I had had the joy of piloting on my PC-monitor - period.

Therefore: more tracks, please. They are absolutely needed. Fern Bay gets old driving round-and-round there. There are definitely some good tracks out there in the real world - that just don't get the credit they deserve. Because they are not suitable for F1 races to be held on them. Think about it Fern Bay and F1? Wouldn't mix!

However each and every RL-track was first created in the mind of their creators, then ran through some tough search for money and only at the end, after they were sculpted into the dirt by some bad-ass sweaty hands and sleepless hours/days/months of hard work - only then could some rich bitches (professional racing drivers, at the time of dawn of the sport) get on with their task and finally race on them. Finding some good lines and fighting for position clearly came AFTER all that.

My point is: every good and/or historic track started out as fiction. In the real world there are only few that really learn to drive ONE hard and long track perfectly. But racecraft was never about perfection of the monotonous same piece of tarmac/dirt/whatever. The real passion is found in variety. Only one track in the world would be pretty damn boring. Even if it was the Nordschleife. I mean, yes, satisfaction can be achieved running one track for every single day of my life. But very certainly the fun would fade eventually. When perfecting the already better than everyone else's lap-time and line becomes repetetive, running that track over and over again, widening the gap when no one else is able to really compete anymore, isn't this the opposite of fun? Hard and honest work, yes - but fun?

Get a grip! If you want real-world tracks that badly: go "I-racing". Lots of ovals to chose from :P

I'm more or less on the lookout for tracks that are fun in an every-day car. Like the xrg/xfg/mini to "lrf-class" and so on. Different kinds of road-tyres, car-like handling with minimum artificial down-force. Maybe with a chunk more power than today's car models, even. And please give me more elevation-changes, switch-backs, hill-climbs and longer, more twisty and challenging, winding _narrow_(!) tracks to make me work my car more and more! Oh and don't forget to feed some other good stuff to the open wheeler guys, they (your customers) deserve that, as well!

I'm all for fictional. Make it brilliant - no excuses for not giving us "Spa" or other lame high-speed, too-wide-for-our-own-good historic tracks. Just tracks - and more of them, with that excellent blend of variety that the current ones have introduced to us - Tracks are all that we really need! Some new and fresh pieces of tarmac/dirt/gravel to race on.

Great post, agreed totally. Fictionnal tracks don't seem to get the respect they deserve

Fictional tracks have the potential to be far superior to real tracks. They are not subject to financial, safety or geographical restrictions, don't need to worry about spectators and viewability, and don't have to cater to any particular series, with it's rules and regulations.

LFS has good variety in cars already, though this could easily be expanded greatly. Tracks have been the weak point since pretty much day one. Not in terms of quality, just quantity. LFS need more artists. Since cloning Eric is out of the question, more people need to get involved for LFS to reach it's potential. There are several routes the devs could take to achieve this, but will they take any of them?

fictional > real. we need a scavier made Nordschleife that would be seriously fantastic. lots of elevation changes, long long laps and then people will shut up for maybe a few days

We don't even have the Rockingham yet and you already started to whine..

DrBen, I fully agree with you

Quote from Takumi_lfs :

We don't even have the Rockingham yet and you already started to whine..

It's nice to see that you completely missed the point, especially one DrBen wrote.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Since cloning Eric is out of the question, more people need to get involved for LFS to reach it's potential. There are several routes the devs could take to achieve this, but will they take any of them?

Never me guess. When I look back to those opportunities from the last years (Palatov DP1, straight from its manufacturer (who now advertises RFactor, oh the irony), those deals with Ford, that one race truck and at least one offer for a whole race track without any licensing fee etc), I see that Scavier takes its band of three mentality a bit too serious. Can't you moderators bring them to reason ?