Hi, I'm experimenting with different cars on several autocross layouts and it seems to me that some of them are just unrealistically-temperamental. The FZ50, for example, clearly modelled on a 911, will throw the back out at 20 mph on a mild turn with very little throttle!! I've driven a 911 on an autocross course and it doesn't go into oversteer anything like the FZ50. What gives, are the default setups that bad, or am I just hopeless?

Quote from johnw3d :

Hi, I'm experimenting with different cars on several autocross layouts and it seems to me that some of them are just unrealistically-temperamental. The FZ50, for example, clearly modelled on a 911, will throw the back out at 20 mph on a mild turn with very little throttle!! I've driven a 911 on an autocross course and it doesn't go into oversteer anything like the FZ50. What gives, are the default setups that bad, or am I just hopeless?

Ok, first thing you should realize is that even if it seems modeled after a certain car, it isn't... They don't exist in real life, so nothing in real life handles exactly like them. Second, the setups on the cars in LFS are a lot more tuned for racing than any streetcar (including top end sportscars) will ever be, so they handle differently anyway. 3rd, there's still some debate on what's wrong with the physics, but we all agree there's something wrong, still.

Personally I think the FZ50 is a mix between a Nissan 350Z (hence the Z50 in its name) and a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti (hence the F in the name). Just look at images of the front of the Nissan and the behind of the Ferrari.

Isn't the 911 the car Porchse wont change the name of for fear of lost sales even though the car itself has had more revisions and major updates than a Microsoft software release?

That could explain half of it.

I've no experience of the FZ50, or a Porsche 911, but that strikes me as a possibility.

I hear the latest 911 model does actually handle, which was a suprise.

Look at the g-meter just before the back end breaks out. There's a good chance that, without realising it, you were pushing the FZ50 MUCH harder that when you did a similar thing in real life. It's so easy to go 20mph and steer lots, but in real life common sense and (a bit of) fear will stop you doing that. Finally, if you've lifted off, perhaps it's a combination of lift off oversteer too?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's just you, I'm just saying it's not ALL LFS. I wonder if we can ever copy steering, throttle and brake input exactly, and apply them the same in a real car to see how it would react in reality. Not an easy test to setup, with tyre sizes, mass distribution, inertia, power, braking, steering lock etc all being different to any car ever made (probably).

Anyone fancy making a real life FZ50 and seeing how it drives if you drive it EXACTLY like an LFS car?

Sure, i'll do it

@Johnw3d : You might think that you're going slow in LFS, but as you can't really 'feel' the speed, you might just be going a lot faster!

Change the front tyres to 'normal' ones.. That helps a lot. In fact, just try the one attatched..

Its a lot different and might make you initially go 'euuww understeer'.. but I'd say its a lot more realistic than with super front tyres.

Johnw3d, are you sure you are using the latest patch? The latest is version is patch U. With previous version, what you describe is exactly the problem that patch U has fixed (to an extent).

Quote from TagForce :

Personally I think the FZ50 is a mix between a Nissan 350Z (hence the Z50 in its name) and a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti (hence the F in the name). Just look at images of the front of the Nissan and the behind of the Ferrari.

The drive train is similar to Porsche, ie, RWD, rear engine, inline 6 (right? it is an inline 6 I think). Hence, this is where the comparion to a Porsche 911 always comes into play, as well as the body style. Bodies aren't exact, and I rather think the 350Z is lamely copied from the 911 IRL.

Maybe this helps you

Porsche 911s are flat 6s.

Conspicuously enough, many of them 3.6 litres lately too. (slightly bigger now IIRC)

AND (Becky..) They are awesome cars that handle well (at least for the last decade and a half)

Well... it may look like a Porsche but it has actually got the interior from an Audi!

Quote from tristancliffe :

Anyone fancy making a real life FZ50 and seeing how it drives if you drive it EXACTLY like an LFS car?

one of my dreams ... if i ever come up with the money needed im going to build blackwood and a few of the lfs cars :P

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Porsche 911s are flat 6s.

Conspicuously enough, many of them 3.6 litres lately too. (slightly bigger now IIRC)

Yes, my mistake, I knew that. Little brain fart there. As is the FZ50 is also a 3.6 L flat 6, just like the Porsche.

Quote from spsamsp :

Well... it may look like a Porsche but it has actually got the interior from an Audi!

Really? I'm not that familiar with Audi, so I never took notice. And the body is a combination of things, shaped like a Porsche, rear tail of a Ferarri 550, and the front could be again the Ferarri 550 or Nissan 350Z or combo of the two. But the arguement of what the LFS cars are derived from has been beaten to death, so let's not get into that again .

Now that you mention it, the interior does look quite a bit like from Audi 100 > http://image2.nettiauto.com/ex ... 06_b_e82a0aad43ac701a.jpg

Thanks for all the responses chaps. I'm new to LFS and the support on this forum seems amazing.

I have to agree with the opinion that FZ50 is a thinly-disguised 911, the flat-6 3.6 with 360HP, the 38F/62R weight distribution. The 911 was an oversteering nightmare with that engine hanging way out the back, but recently is much more controlled. Anyway, I'll try the setups posted and will analyse a run or two to make sure I'm not being fooled by lack of butt-feedback.

I've just got a Cayman S, hoping that one or other of the existing cars could be made to simulate a sharp, mid-engined coupe, but the FZ50 is to heavy and tail-weighted and the RAC certainly doesn't feel right.

Anyway, thanks again to all, very much enjoying my learning experience here.
John.

Glad to see you here John. Indeed, butt-feedback is a key factor as you know. Noone claims LFS is perfect, but many issues are too often blamed on the sim when it's not always the sims fault. (sometimes it is, sometimes it's partial...) I think you'll enjoy your LFS though!

And your Cayman LOL

You live close to Canada? Why not take a holiday in Banff and take me for a spin? hehe

See you out there.

Quote from ORION :

Maybe this helps you

Thanks ORION, I love that setup! I used to dislike the FZ50 due to the way it handled but with your setup I can throw it around the track with confidence, all with a big grin on my face. Feels great!