Quote from majod :

I hope you can see what you did there. This is going heavily offtopic but you say the bandwagon is the reality. How do you know it is the reality? How do you know what I believe in is NOT the reality? Just because you believe something else, it must be the reality? Or because it was on TV it must be the reality? You just said that the official version is absolute truth. Why is the official version more valuable than the unofficial?

Typically because it's based on recorded evidence rather than unfounded suppositions by people who were nowhere near the actual event.

Quote :

You called me idiot because I don't believe what you believe but you're the one here saying that your version is the reality and it's the 100% truth. Just because you chose to believe something else. Tolerancy is almost shining from your words and I can see the glare on the western horizon...

I called you an idiot because I can see no logical grounds to assume that there's anything more to this incident than a crazy person mowing down innocents. It's not like this is the firs ... has happened or anything. The US has a serious problem with mass shootings, for reasons that are an endless subject of debate. (I have my own ideas as to why, as I'm sure does everyone else here.)

Quote :

You can be wrong as much as I can be. The difference is I'm not attacking anyone, my parents raised me well. I don't like arguing with anyone but I don't like when someone's attacking me on something very, very subjective. Mind your words next time. I'm an atheist and I'm not telling every Christian they're idiots because they chose to believe in God; also I'm not claiming this is the reality and it's the right way.

You can say that everything (truth, evidence, etc) is subjective, but that's not a very useful way to view the world unless your only goal is to muddy the waters and propagate theories that lack rational grounding. It's the same tactic that Christian conservatives and such use to argue that the earth is 4000 years old. I understand the urge—I come from a liberal arts background where I was strongly encouraged to doubt the truth of accepted facts and consider alternative viewpoints, but skepticism can be a tool for disinformation as well as truth-seeking.

Quote :

Now back on another offtopic. What made me think there's some "conspiracy" is the video I posted above, the police officer giving speech to the press. Now I can imagine response of others arguing how can I claim there's a conspiracy based on this single speech.

Because I think that arresting people for saying their opinions on social media has no place in fair liberal democratic country as USA says it is. That was the first hint something is not right. Then I began to investigate and every other article I read on this story just told me I'm thinking the good way. So I chosed to believe the other story. You can google all the information by yourself.

Let's take an alternative, Occam's razor approach to this cop's statements: He's emotionally shaken by the shooting, he (and others who live in the immediate area of the shooting) see people on the internet propagating falsehoods regarding to what happened there, and in his emotional state he makes a foolish threat that he can't legally back up.

One guy's emotional response to a couple dozen schoolkids getting gunned down in his community, or a national/worldwide conspiracy to limit first amendment rights to free speech? Yeah, must be the latter.

Quote :

You can also call me an idiot because I don't believe in 9/11 and you say the reality is that muslims crashed the planes and there are terrorists everywhere and USA must kill them all cos they're the bad guys. But you neither I can say that our story is the right one, until we have all the evidence on the surface. And we don't. We just have news reports and expert analysis and 4 frames from video showing tiny black object hitting the Pentagon. You can choose to believe a plane crashed there, I chose not to because I never saw a plane there.

You're right, I can call you an idiot for this. And I do. There's plenty of evidence that it was in fact a passenger jet that hit the pentagon if you'd like to open your eyes to it, but you won't. Sure, there are just as many resources that you can find arguing that it was a missile, or an alien ship, or a bomb. OMG, who can you trust?! Obviously no one, right?



If you disbelieve everything you don't witness with your own eyes, you must live in a very different world than most of us. You think you're enlightened because you choose to believe something different than the majority, but that's an error. You're unenlightened for ignoring evidence and logic in favor of conspiracy and paranoia.

Sincerely,
The Sheeple

1: there is police audio at the time supporting more than one shooter, that is actual audio at the time of the shooting, check the audio regarding the woods.

2: there are numerous witness reports saying police had a handcuffed person on the ground.

3: police stated that .223 shells were everywhere, yet the sole shooters .223 rifle was still in the car boot.

4: why are police threatening to arrest anyone disagreeing with their now official story ?

Yes, America is full of drugged up loonies who want to gun down anyone who upsets them, but most of them are in the police or military !

Guns, knives, curling tongs, whatever can all kill, why the big gun control issue now? Perhaps the fact Homeland Security have ordered 450 million rounds of hollow point ammo, Perhaps the fact that a major financial collapse is currently underway in the US, Perhaps the fact that the net is educating people in the US about the Federal Reserve scam, and the LIBOR scam, and the Federal Tax scam, and the FDA drug scam, and the list goes on.

Foundamentally, it's all about money and power.

And remember, the US officially kills children everyday, only their called collateral damage...........

Quote from Racer X NZ :

1: there is police audio at the time supporting more than one shooter, that is actual audio at the time of the shooting, check the audio regarding the woods.

What the hell does that prove?

Quote from Racer X NZ :

2: there are numerous witness reports saying police had a handcuffed person on the ground.

What the hell does that prove?

Quote from Racer X NZ :

3: police stated that .223 shells were everywhere, yet the sole shooters .223 rifle was still in the car boot.

Look my first answer.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

4: why are police threatening to arrest anyone disagreeing with their now official story ?

I think it was about people posting misinformation with the purpose of causing unrest, creating panic and causing damage to the innocent parties?

What's the difference in seeing the violence in video games compared to movies? I could understand if the gripe was over something like GTA where you can just be a civilian hunting down other civilians for the "fun of it", but I've heard the arguments for games like CoD etc that those video games also shouldn't have the violence they entail.

In the end, it's just a war game, so if people are affected by those, shouldn't they also be affected by war movies? Or any movie that portrays violence?

---

There's a million reasons that could flow through someone's head before they go insane and wipeout people in a violent way, and video games should be far from the top of the list. Things that happen to the person throughout there life affects them directly and has more impact on their behavior.

Sorry if I repeated anyone, didn't read the thread indepth.

Ahh, the flat earth society must be meeting.

Police audio stating they arrested a second person suggests just that

Eyewitness seeing someone else handcuffed on the ground suggests just that

Sorry, forgot that any evidence that suggests anything different wasn't permitted.

At least look at the evidence before stating it doesn't exist, that's what the cops are for........

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Ahh, the flat earth society must be meeting.

Police audio stating they arrested a second person suggests just that

Eyewitness seeing someone else handcuffed on the ground suggests just that

Sorry, forgot that any evidence that suggests anything different wasn't permitted.

At least look at the evidence before stating it doesn't exist, that's what the cops are for........

Witnesses report all kinds of things immediately after the fact, when adrenaline is pumping and things are in a confusion. How many of those same witnesses are continuing to support those claims, a week later? I guess they were probably silenced by the masterminds behind the grand conspiracy, right?

And on another note, got any sources for these eyewitness claims?

Too tired to quote. The pic of tiny piece of plane near Pentagon is totally worthless for me. That's all from the entire aircraft?

You made some valid points but I will not change my opinion about these things and any further debate is pointless. You think I'm an idiot, I don't think you're an idiot. I think there are things in the world we have no idea about and they (whoever you imagine as they) don't want us to know it.

Have a nice Christmass mate.

Quote from majod :

Too tired to quote. The pic of tiny piece of plane near Pentagon is totally worthless for me. That's all from the entire aircraft?

You made some valid points but I will not change my opinion about these things and any further debate is pointless. You think I'm an idiot, I don't think you're an idiot. I think there are things in the world we have no idea about and they (whoever you imagine as they) don't want us to know it.

Have a nice Christmass mate.

Thanks, dude. Same to you. And I should clarify. I don't think you're an idiot, but I think believing that 9/11 was a huge inside job-style conspiracy is idiotic. Maybe a distinction without meaning to you, but maybe not.

Racer X, I know you want to believe in conspiracies and all that, but does everything have to be a conspiracy? As DeadWolfBones said, witnesses report all kinds of crazy shit when they are right in the moment, then their words have to be misinterpreted and misreported before we can even hear them.

Now, my rant...

The whole event is bad enough that even someone as pro-gun as myself will agree that the United States needs to better regulate firearms. I'm eager to hear what the NRA has to say about this because, so far, I feel like they've only skirted around the whole incident so far. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the federal government ends up doing nothing. It's going to take forever to get Congress to approve some legislation. I wouldn't be surprised if something else comes up (fiscal cliff) and ends up taking priority over the weapon legislation. Best case scenario, I see a ban on assault weapons for 10, maybe 20 years. Then it'll be right back to today's laws.

As for the video games, they can try to censor virtual violence, but the Supreme Court will not allow it. We're very protective of our 1st amendment rights (rightfully, unlike our greedy over entitlement to the 2nd). If you can watch people get shot up and brutalized in movies, you'll be able to do it in video games.

Now, the media. It's horrible, but I can't really feel sympathy or compassion for the victims of the incident because the mainstream news sources (CNN, NBC, FOX) are so infuriatingly bad at covering it. They are so desperate to get anything out of anyone that they turn the whole event into a circus. You know, 'experts' are brought on air, then they make a few statements that are pure conjecture (because there's very little to actually report or its already been covered, thanks 24h news cycle), then the news stations eat up that bullshit and run it for the next 6 hours straight. Thinking they are doing some great justice to us by harassing relatives of the victims and those close to the tragedy, then providing a misguided spin on the situation and throwing it at us. Yesterday, I even heard themselves patting themselves on the back, saying they were backing away from the story to pay respect to the families, when really they are just taking off to go rape and pillage whatever their next big story is.

The only good coverage I've seen so far came from ESPN of all places. They did a short, respectful bit on Victor Cruz's trip to Newtown. One of the families wanted a signed jersey to bury their son (a diehard fan) in. He went to the funeral and spent a few hours with some of the other kids who survived, just to get their minds off what happened. Really heart-wrenching stuff, the only time I've felt bad about what happened.

Bleat, bleat, bleat, if it isn't on Fox it's a conspiracy theory.

20 minutes of work comes up with the following, strangely no journalist has followed this one.

On Friday police were "questioning a handcuffed suspect in connection with the Newtown school shooting" after they found a man wearing camouflage pants and a black jacket in the woods near the school.
CBS reported that "a potential second shooter is in custody and that SWAT is now investigating the home of the suspect."
Connecticut State Police Lt. J. Paul Vance later told reporters that there was only one shooter, but there officials haven't given any more information on the man in the woods.
http://www.newshour24.com/2012 ... e-Sandy-Hook-Shooting.htm

And here's where it does get interesting, the guy's name is allegedly Chris Manfredonia, now, dressed in camo's and a dark top he was allegedly going to see his child, sex unstated, who was allegedly at the school.
Also allegedly, he heard 'popping and smelt sulpher' so naturally, according to some sources, instead of going directly into the school, where his child was, and he was allegedly expected, he chose to run off into the woods.
As indeed any parent would, no doubt to do a Rambo like transformation and storm the school from the rear, or something.

According to some reports, he was held in custody while police searched his house, according to other reports he was released almost immediately where he found his child, sex still unstated, being consolled by a teacher.

Whatever the story, this one's being buried really quickly, who knows why ?

Edit, also strangely the CBS link is now not found, let's see how long this one lasts......
http://connecticut.cbslocal.co ... -leaves-multiple-injured/

Ok because everyone has balls of steal like racerx!

ROFL
My secret is out.



But he was the one in camos, and doesn't have a facebook page, and is listed as living with his 'wife' and brother, no mention of a kid, or employment history. For any of them in fact.
Isn't it wonderful what can be found on the web about Americans with very little effort.
And it's a great name to get instant recognition when called over police radio, which it was very clearly.
The only one's in Conneticut.
And while everyone else is queing up to be interviewed, I had to dig deeply to find this and most people didn't believe me till I got that far.
I'd have thought the media would have been chasing him, his wife, his brother, his kid, camped outside his house, to get his story, but it just disappeared and nothing.
What will be interesting is to see who the people are who claim this is just another anti american/ anti israel conspiracy theory from me.

I must adjust my avitar to be wearing camo........., and bigger balls !

And, in support of majob
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... =UUD7c_jiXT6U9XTXJqf0fgjA

Quote from Rappa Z :

We're very protective of our 1st amendment rights (rightfully, unlike our greedy over entitlement to the 2nd). If you can watch people get shot up and brutalized in movies, you'll be able to do it in video games.

I'd argue that we might be a little over protective of the freedom of the press. A lot of times I'd wish that they'd be forced to stay at home (like in this case), and I don't think that members of the press should get anything special like they do sometimes in courtrooms just because they are reporters or journalists

Quote from Racer X NZ :

And, in support of majob
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... =UUD7c_jiXT6U9XTXJqf0fgjA

Thanks, Racer Y. In public view an expert who is not shown on major media is not legit enough.

Off topic,

Building 7 is the smoking gun, if people question why that magically fell down, then they may look a bit closer at the rest of it.
And there are a huge number of highly qualified specialist who have questioned it in their field of expertes.

On topic,

Apparently Chris Manfredonia has a 6 year old daughter at the school, he was on his way to make ginger bread houses, and he was 'running around the school to get in the back'

It didn't look like that on the arrest video but......

And can anyone name the 6 year old who survived ?
That's being kept quiet for 'privacy reasons'

So what do you think is being covered up in the Sandy shootings case?
It's a highly sensitive topic, so we can expect a certain degree of reluctance to come out with any and every piece of information until it's certain, and necessary.
Sorry if I've missed that, but I'm at a loss to come up with anything plausible.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

And can anyone name the 6 year old who survived ?
That's being kept quiet for 'privacy reasons'

maybe because the parents don't want their family to be harassed?

Pretty good reaction to today's NRA press conference:

Quote from Racer X NZ :

1: there is police audio at the time supporting more than one shooter, that is actual audio at the time of the shooting, check the audio regarding the woods.

2: there are numerous witness reports saying police had a handcuffed person on the ground.

3: police stated that .223 shells were everywhere, yet the sole shooters .223 rifle was still in the car boot.

4: why are police threatening to arrest anyone disagreeing with their now official story ?

Yes, America is full of drugged up loonies who want to gun down anyone who upsets them, but most of them are in the police or military !

Guns, knives, curling tongs, whatever can all kill, why the big gun control issue now? Perhaps the fact Homeland Security have ordered 450 million rounds of hollow point ammo, Perhaps the fact that a major financial collapse is currently underway in the US, Perhaps the fact that the net is educating people in the US about the Federal Reserve scam, and the LIBOR scam, and the Federal Tax scam, and the FDA drug scam, and the list goes on.

Foundamentally, it's all about money and power.

And remember, the US officially kills children everyday, only their called collateral damage...........

Hi, i would appreciate it i you had some respect for those who were killed and stopped with this bs. I have class mates who lost aunts, neighbors that lost nephews. And i know from a cop that has details on the investigation that you are in fact wrong.

Having proof doesn't mean telling someone about evidence, it means showing the evidence. I am not talking to anyone in specific, just anyone who seems to think that telling someone about evidence is the same thing as showing it to them. I am certain several people will think that I am attacking them, or are not on their side of some argument or something. But I am assuredly not on anyone's side in this thread.

i think we all agree that racer x has about no credibility.

trying to attribute one cause for gun violence and then making knee-jerk legislation to try and eliminate that one cause is ridiculous, but typical. Some people say its the guns, some people say its the SSRIs or lack of access to mental treatment, some people say violent video games.

The peak of mass murders using guns in the US was in 1929. Most guns were small-calibur revolvers or carbines (semi-automatic rifles that shoot pistol rounds) and were unaffordable to most people. There were no violent video games or...radio dramas. There were no mind-warping shoot 'em up pills. There was no government mind-control experiment. There were bad people. Just like there will always be.

Quote from flymike91 :

There were no violent video games or...radio dramas. There were no mind-warping shoot 'em up pills. There was no government mind-control experiment.

so clearly the problem is guns

Automatic rifles in Wallmart... yeah i don't see where's the problem here.

Quote from flymike91 :

The peak of mass murders using guns in the US was in 1929.

Well, let's see what was going on in 1929. Oh yeah, that's right: prohibition. And pretty much the peak of organized crime, particularly in Chicago.