Kind of a strange question and I am not sure where to put this or whether there is such a demand for a topic but it got me thinking.

The hypothetical is this (based upon the advancement of sims i.e AC) - let's say we could create a photo-realistic environment with audio realism too for a sim. On TV it would be very hard to distinguish between the that and reality. I don't think we are that far away, the physics are already pretty close.

So pick any era of F1, let's just mid 90s with the Ferrari V12s but whatever is your favourite, as a punter what would you rather watch on TV - Formula E or that?

The reason I sight Formula E is because from a spectator point of view the lack of noise and vibration and excitement could be a turning point for the future of motorsport from a fan's perspective.

Bit left-field I know

The real thing - because the physics are not anywhere near yet in terms of what the drivers actually have to cope with (track surface nuaces and changes, forces), how little testing you can do in real life (even with unlimited budgets), how long it takes to make changes to the cars, and of course the safety aspect - without ANY danger then motorsport is actually very boring to watch. Of course we don't want to see injuries, but it's the RISK of injuries that adds a certain element of excitement.

Sims are too safe, too easy (you can do a billion miles of testing a day if you don't go into work), and too simple (they can't record the influence of every blade of grass or dust on the track).

As much as I don't like Formula E (there are more interesting ways of creating that amount of pollution and environmental harm), it'd thrash the excitement of any sim series.

Formula Virtual could be attractive if the simulation is accessible for everybody because then you can compare yourself to the drivers.
There might also be drivers that you know (either real life or internet friends or people you have raced against) so that could make it more "personal" interessting, too.
The same reasons why people might watch streamings of LFS races, easier to relate to if you have done it yourself.
No amount of background coverage, interviews etc can make the viewer really understand what is going on in an F1 race.

I am talking more about indulging people's desire to see the old cars being driven. The noise etc...

If a sim ever was able to emulate the look of reality and sound then a casual viewer wouldn't be able to distinguish between the two. If someone is told that it's real... they wouldn't know any difference.

Tristan is right you don't have all the nuances, but really very few people even recognise they exist. A nuance of F1 is that it isn't the best 24 drivers in the world, yet most people don't recognise this.

But I am talking about visual satisfaction. I like to go on Youtube and watch videos of amazing cars an safety isn't a factor. I don't go on youtube and watch electric cars... they don't have the same visceral experience. I suspect if Formula E was on AC and we also had 80s/90s F1 cars it's obvious which one most would choose.

I am just thinking in the future when everyone is racing electric cars and it won't translate well to TV is Paris Bercy is anything to go by. That's where I have a gut feeling sim racing can possible come in and provide a visual experience that's appealing... It's hard to articulate what I am trying to say here haha

I guess it's like digital music. It's better to watch a band live. The depth, the nuances etc... but we still put on a song on Spotify to satisfy a desire to hear and experience something.

I like this question, it's quite deep. When I sim-race I don't "pretend to be a racing driver", I am just a sim-racer, and that is what I enjoy. If I were watching seventies F1 cars at the Nordschleife in glorious HD with incredible camera angles, and you told me it was not real I would not be as fascinated. In fact the tech and graphics that make it possible would be at least as interesting as the actual race. I might still enjoy watching the race, but not as a "pretend real race".

I don't subscribe to the idea that danger makes something fun, but the consequences are what can make something engaging in a way a digital version never could be, no matter the sound they make. I'd rather watch nobodies on electric bikes lap the IOM at 100mph average than some perfect recreation of an insane glorious sounding 350bhp turbo GP bike class featuring real legendary riders as "pilots"- although the latter would be bloody good too .

c) time machine and actual 90s F1

I don't believe virtual will ever be a substitute for the real thing.

A good comparison is the films Rush and Senna, Rush used the real cars and a big budget and the driving scenes were still the worst part of the film. In contrast some grainy old footage that we've all seen many times before is just captivating, mainly because of the level of concentration due to fear in the driver.

Virtual racing will never convey driver's body language and the lack of restraint due to the lack of fear means nothing stands out when a driver pushes beyond the normal limits.

Rush used some real cars, but not THE real cars. But I get your point

Quote from deggis :

c) time machine and actual 90s F1

but then wouldn't you already know who wins?

I think the strength of sim racing as a tv show is also its biggest weakness. Everybody can do it. Why would I watch sim racing when I can go do it myself?

In the end though the type of real racing doesn't really matter as much as it being real racing does. Formula E sounds pretty dull concept but it is still real racing. By real I mean not virtual. While the cars will sound exactly like the cars in gran turismo it doesn't really matter that much in the end. Of course the purist in me wants to see those v12 screamers but it is not really what tips the scales.

I don't think it is the danger aspect either. If there was a similarly high end racing series in both virtual and in real life the consequences for crashing for the driver are pretty similar. Your race is ruined and you score no points. I don't think the death and injury is what makes real motorsports exciting as some say. Sure some people want to see big crashes and cars doing cartwheels and barrel rolls 29 times before coming to rest only to be driven over by a monster truck in a fiery spectacle of fire and lasers but for the driver the main pressure when you are on the track comes from finishing the race and not about dying.

Where the line does get more blurry is when we have real cars going around the track and the drivers sitting in sim pods driving the cars using radio signals. But if the comparison is between sim racing and real racing I really don't see sim racing as equal competitor.

There are lots of reasons other than the differences in the actual sports that are important as well. Sim racing has still long ways to go to get to the same professional level as the top level motorsports tv shows. Sim racing also needs to do a lot of work to get people to get excited about and emotionally connected to sim racing like they are connected to and excited about real sports. Atm only people who watch sim racing are sim racers.

not to mention iRacing WC's are already streamed in decent quality. I mean LFS commentators (CSF, Dom and co.) are very much so better than iRacing commentators when they stay on task.

Quote from Gutholz :

but then wouldn't you already know who wins?

Maybe it comes with this device

Quote from Hyperactive :

Sim racing also needs to do a lot of work to get people to get excited about and emotionally connected to sim racing like they are connected to and excited about real sports. Atm only people who watch sim racing are sim racers.

A bit same in that sense with any pro-gaming/e-sports, people who watch it live are already gamers and most likely familiar with the exact game they're watching. I don't think these are easy to "sell" to non-gamers either. FPS games have no real life equivalent, but actual sports games do, so those would be a good comparison.

I find Formula E actually pretty interesting, will there be TV coverage? (on Eurosport for example)

Cheers

Quote from TurboBlaster :

I find Formula E actually pretty interesting, will there be TV coverage? (on Eurosport for example)

Cheers

yes, in 52 country's I've heard. it will be on fox sports in the nethelands.

Err think I might rethink what I'd rather watch :doh:

http://jalopnik.com/the-ces-de ... amp;utm_medium=socialflow

Seriously this thing is pants compared to the Formula Student electric cars, both in terms of spectacle and out right performance!

Quote from ajp71 :

Err think I might rethink what I'd rather watch :doh:

http://jalopnik.com/the-ces-de ... amp;utm_medium=socialflow

Seriously this thing is pants compared to the Formula Student electric cars, both in terms of spectacle and out right performance!

It hasnt even started yet, give it a chance atleast, it surely is a milestone in a certain way. :eclipsee_

If the people behind it think that demo was a good idea, then the series is never going to get anywhere.

See, now your getting it It's a bit like going to watch your favourite band and they forget to plug their instruments in.

But if you have absolutely no preconceptions of what a race car is or sounds like, and you live in a major city where Formula E is visiting I suspect you could extract some excitement out of it. We are dinosaurs after all.

The drivers lined up look promising though, im not a fan fully tho and its a race series that at best will be fully dominated by Tv veiwership with no one wanting to see it in person for obvious reasons.

would of worked a million times better if they where Hybrids using real tech, or electric cars with petrol generators, people crave some sound and fully electric just has a giant R/C look to it.

If you look at the calender - London, Berlin, Beijing, Rio, Miami, LA, Monte Carlo, Buenos Aires etc.. - that's why it has to be fully electric. Without that I doubt they would be able to convince the cities to join. They are reaching places F1 can only dream of.

Quote from Intrepid :

If you look at the calender - London, Berlin, Beijing, Rio, Miami, LA, Monte Carlo, Buenos Aires etc.. - that's why it has to be fully electric. Without that I doubt they would be able to convince the cities to join. They are reaching places F1 can only dream of.

Yeah i guess that helps its appeal.