Being able to upload and download skins with bigger dimensions has been a recurring topic for a while. We have now begun preparation for this and have made it possible to upload car skins with a maximum dimension of 2048 * 2048 pixels and 1024 * 1024 pixels for helmet skins. So, double the previous maximum size.

At the same time I have renewed the skins upload page. It is now located on this website at www.lfs.net/account/skins . The icon on lfsworld now opens this page as well.

Though skin downloads inside LFS will remain the same for while still, we thought it'd be good to enable people to upload skins with bigger dimensions now, so that when LFS supports it, there will already be skins available for download.

As said, we have doubled the maximum dimension, but that does not mean you have to actually use it. You can still upload skins at 1024px as well. So the higher dimensions are optional.

One thing we have been considering is allowing the upload of even bigger dimensions.
We could allow people to upload 4096px skins although these would not become available in LFS, but they would then already be available in case LFS ever would.

So we'd like to ask you what you think : do you think it should be possible to upload 4096px skins as well (even though LFS will not support downloading them any time soon), or would you be opposed to that, as it will be overkill, at least for a while to come? Because even if you have a 4K monitor, 4096px skins would still be twice as high at your monitor's resolution. The increased quality would only be visible on close close-ups. For racing itself it would be pointless, even on a 4K monitor.
Filesizes increase as well - you'd have to download more, and as JPG skin files will be converted to DDS format, it would take around 7MB per skin, storage wise.
Finally, a bigger skin doesn't necessarily make a better skin.

If you have an opinion on this, vote in the poll and / or leave your opinion behind.

If you experience any trouble with the new skins page, please let me know as well.

www.lfs.net/account/skins

In my opinion 4096px skins are not worth the space they take on hard drives (wether it is mine or at LFS' HQ) compared to the visual improvement. At least not in 2015.

I guess that the current plan is to have 1024px free and 2048px as paid service? Or is that option going to be revoked?

We've not yet made up our minds about that. Though it's likely that there will be 3 options in LFS. 512, 1024 and 2048 skin downloads.

Whether 1024 will be a free option, or even the new default, has not yet been decided.

Having 1024 as the new default setting sounds like a good compromise.


I think this gif made by GT4_PL is quite relevant in order to cast a vote in this poll.

The difference between 4096 and 2048 is so slight in LFS at the moment that I don't see the point. 2048 is a good compromise.

4096 brings very diminishing returns, 2048 is the best compromise of size and quality.

I concur that 2048 seems to be the most suitable.


I've noticed one bug - previously uploaded VWS skins are showing in the XFG list.

2048 is good, but we need to get rid of 512, they look terrible.
By the way, why can't I upload skins with # symbol in it's name? I deleted low res skin and now I cant upload high res again because of that.

Quote from Degats :

I've noticed one bug - previously uploaded VWS skins are showing in the XFG list.

Ah, fixed.

Quote from Zaabis :

2048 is good, but we need to get rid of 512, they look terrible.
By the way, why can't I upload skins with # symbol in it's name? I deleted low res skin and now I cant upload high res again because of that.

I'm now allowing that character again.
The full set of allowed skin file name characters has been limited though. There were some annoying characters being used previously.
Currently accepted characters are a-z A-Z 0-9 ._-# SPACE

Thanks for the opportunity for this change. 4096 is indeed useless for both the eye and the file size over the quality it will provide. 1024 as for the new default and 2048 for paid(unless this goes for free as well), would be the ideal i believe.

Quote from Zaabis :

...but we need to get rid of 512, they look terrible.

TBH, the biggest problem with the 512 skins is the horrible jpeg compression, which is more noticeable at a lower resolution.

The 512 skins either need a higher base jpeg quality or (the better option IMO) store them on LFSW and download as a gzip'd dds.

it only saves time after creating a skin with 2048x2048. I did an upload to 2048, I downloaded the skin trough a replay and the quality is the same (exactly the same as upload to 1024). it would be nice free upload in game 512, 1024 for S1 / S2 and 2048 to pay .we dont need 4096 in my opinion.

Of course it's the same.. Because LFS itself doesn't support 2048 yet. If you didn't pay for higher skin quality it sticks @512 anyway.

Unless you already have the 1024 skin(s) locally.

Nice
How would uploaded 2048 be converted to 1024?
I sometimes wonder if 512 look blury only because of lower resolution. It seems a bit like compression artifacts too. (Not so noticable on Whiskey's gif, in general)

Victor, the new skins page looks fabulous. Thank you and keep up the awesome work!

Thanks Victor, so much time I was waiting for it !

Bug report, with high-res skin uploaded, skin preview in cars section is bugged, see screenshot :

In my opinion it isn't needed to have 4096px skins, as the difference in the quality isn't that much add to that the duration it's gonna take to download them.

Quote from Gutholz :

How would uploaded 2048 be converted to 1024?
I sometimes wonder if 512 look blury only because of lower resolution. It seems a bit like compression artifacts too. (Not so noticable on Whiskey's gif, in general)

Degats' suggestion to store everything as gzipped dds actually would work very well. Even for 2048 skins. So I'm discussing this with Scawen to see what we can do. Then there wouldn't be any lossy compression at all and you could upload skins even as png for example.

Quote from nacim :

Thanks Victor, so much time I was waiting for it !

Bug report, with high-res skin uploaded, skin preview in cars section is bugged, see screenshot :

Ah, that's because the thumbnails are now stored with double dimensions. Will fix tonight.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Of course it's the same.. Because LFS itself doesn't support 2048 yet. If you didn't pay for higher skin quality it sticks @512 anyway.

Unless you already have the 1024 skin(s) locally.

I know. I try say with 1 conversion is the same quality. before with 2 conversions , 2048 to 1024 and 1024 to 512 (in game) quality is the same, because many conversions damage the quality. 2048 is good thing anyway

Not sure if I should post a new thread with this but while reuploading some skins in 2048 I've noticed an error when you upload a skin that is already uploaded by a different person.

Quote from Victor :

Ah, that's because the thumbnails are now stored with double dimensions. Will fix tonight.

Done.

Quote from troy :

Not sure if I should post a new thread with this but while reuploading some skins in 2048 I've noticed an error when you upload a skin that is already uploaded by a different person.

XFR_BonsaifighterS.jpg : A skin with the same filename as your skin already exists.
Please rename your skin.<div id="skinPrev725570" class="z100 lyr_shadow1 w_128 h_128"
style="background: transparent url('/dynamic/skinthumb/XFR/725570-0.png') no-repeat
top left;"></div>

Thanks, fixed.

I would just like to pitch in this idea. (if you where to go over to .dds)

Wich would be to map the windows on to the cars skin aswell (or as an extra texture "XRT_W_skinName", and that window texture would load in with the matching skin name "XRT_skinName") so windows stickers would be possible.
If you where to add windows to and extra skin maybe alpha grayscale could be mapped to shine for the cars, to get flat or chrome effect on the skins.


:Extra:
Burn me on a witch stand, but i did a mod with that platform before you updated the alpha textures (map the windows to the carskin). Wich worked well exept it was either 0% or 100% as in black and white, no grayscale. So the lines got verry choppy.
Now with the new alpha it can't load the skin texture properly so the windows get completly black on track.
(I would provide screenshots but thats against the rules.)

Now that the uploaded skin dimensions can be different for each skin, it would be useful to have the skin dimensions written somewhere to see what skins need to be possibly reuploaded in higher quality. Like this maybe?

Good one, added.

Need 4096 for 4K resolution!