Yeah. Probably just as important is the ability to have the image also rendered onto the monitor so you can see what your friend is doing in the rift!

Looks like the new SDK 0.4.2 has improved chromatic aberration correction and people are reporting a clearer image so I think I will update my sdk this time and give it a try when I get home. Not sure what they have done but it seems in the oculus config utility it takes note now of your eye relief.

Edit - There is also an updated runtime which you need to update the rifts firmware at the same time.

Last edited by Alric, Fri 5 Sep 2014, 13:45.

I spent a couple of hours testing last night with my motion rig and 100% it doesn't pitch from what the in game slope is. (My camera is on a wall facing me) As I go on the banking it stays totally flat and level, only the accelerometer effects make the chair move which is specifically, acceleration, braking, cornering, engine vibration and road texture up & down. So that is why I don't get the issue with the camera thinking I'm pitched higher than I am.

I know my setup isn't correct but it works really well in lfs. It gives very quick movement & works hand in hand with the rift. It has 4 powerful actuators with about 65mm of travel and in the MRT5 round South City really pushes my head to one side which you can see in the rift and gives the impression of some g-force. I've tried with and without motion, without motion I can last fairly long until I feel a bit ill but get ill instantly when coming to a complete stop. (I now close my eyes until I've stopped). With the motion I can last a bit longer still and when coming to a stop I don't get ill so it is doing something to trick my brain or inner ear. The only problem with the motion is it seems to vibrate the rift a little on my nose (even with the strap tight) which gives a jittery image over high frequency bumps if the motion is turned right up. Maybe less weight of the consumer rift will help with this small issue.

I wish I could let everyone have a go, someone with more brains than me would get better results out of my setup I'm sure. I've been racing cars for 7 years now and so far motion + dk2 + lfs is the most realistic racing experience I've ever had. Feel very lucky lfs has supported the rift so well.

Quote from PeterN :

I find that highly unlikely. More likely is that a bend that seems tight to you at 100mph is very much not tight at 10mph, that is all.

I found one of example of BMW having a variable steering ratio, but this is designed to do the opposite of what you say (it reduces steering lock when parking) and has an manual override to fixed ratio for track use.

I didn't explain myself very well, what I was trying to say is if I set my wheel to 1080 degrees in a sim then when I go round a corner which in real life would require 90 degrees of turning I seem to have to put on about 270 degrees of turning in game. I maybe have a setting wrong or something but that's just what I've personally found. It's probably me doing something wrong but I have to use 540 degrees or less to get anything like a realistic sim racing experience.

Matrixi, I know real cars have a large degree of turning but if your racing round a track they reduce the faster you go (don't ask me how it works but they do). So at 100mph going round a corner you only need to turn the wheel a small amount, yet at 2mph you need to turn the wheel 2 and a half times to park.

I found if you set a racing sim to 1080 for example you just end up having to turn the wheel like a madman at 100mph which isn't realistic!

Thanks for that Scawen, that does now make sense. It's more complicated than I first thought. I will do some testing with my rig because I'm not sure mine tilts back if you go up a slope. I think it only takes movement from the car which I know is a contradiction but I believe it moves relevant to the cars cornering, braking, acceleration, engine vibration and any road bumps (chair up & down) only. They are the only options for turning forces up or down.

I'm going to try keeping a constant speed and picking a track which has a nice upslope (south city upramp?) and have a friend watch the chair & see if it leans back. I guess if it doesn't lean back then it will match the rift but wouldn't be as realistic and maybe cause motion sickness? If it does lean back then I must be counteracting the pitch discrepancy myself which as you say is wrong.

I am interested in what mounting the rift camera with the chair would do... Although I think people have already had problems with the camera if it is banged about from their steering wheel on the same desk which makes it lose tracking.

Last edited by Alric, Tue 2 Sep 2014, 10:13.

As a user of a motion chair I maybe missing something here but lfs works really well with it. As long as the in game head movements are set to zero and the chair is toned down a bit it seems to work as good as it could. Why would you need to tell the rift to subtract movement data?

As in real life when I'm using the chair and I go over a bump the chair jerks my body which in turn moves my head (like it would in real life) which then makes the view in the rift move but as long as I keep focusing forward with my eyes then that is again the same as to what would happen in real life.

Only when a game adds movements effects does it ruin the experience with a motion chair. The seating position in the car needs to be stationary and just let the chair movement move the viewpoint in the rift which lfs does perfectly now.

The limitation of motion sims is the inability to maintain g force. In a quick chicane my chair is brilliant but on a long sweeper the chair is just 20 degrees tilted over to one side with no g-force. There are chairs which can move right over onto it's side which are great for replicating g-force in long sweepers but not quick enough to respond in a quick flip flop chicane. Maybe if something could be added to the chair which pushed your rib cage from side to side could replicate g-force in a long corner? Or maybe it would bruise you up?! I guess sim racing is exactly that, not quite as good as the real thing but getting closer as technology improves.

Wow, great work. Night and day change on trees. Looks much better.

I still think what Scawen has said about each computer giving a slightly different experience is true because for me & my pc the only way I have a stutter free experience is with v-sync on like him. It is also perfectly smooth and accurate for my head position. If I turn v-sync off my fps goes to 333.3, I get no tearing but lots of stutter. It feels like it's running at 40-50fps! For me v-sync on is the only way I can play. (780ti)

It was me that noticed a lot of black smearing / shadow blur. I have my rift plugged into a dvi with the oculus supplied dvi to hdmi adapter. (780 Ti) I will see if a different port makes any difference. To be honest I've noticed it a lot less recently but I've changed the weather to sunny & that seems to help too.

Brill. Sounds like a good plan. Look forward to testing.

Scawen, are 3d mirrors now planned for later rift updates? I can imagine implementing this feature would require a lot of work and delay the official version G so entirely understand if so. Just wondered as that's really the only thing that pops out at me now for obvious improved dk2 immersion.

Okay, now I understand. Thanks Shotglass

Judging from the recent palmer luckey interview it now seems the cv1 will be 90hz.

Last edited by Alric, Mon 18 Aug 2014, 20:27.

Oh sorry, I took 3d mirrors to mean they have depth & display the world in 3d not just what they display in 2d relative to our 3d head position.

I just noticed the view in the mirrors stay the same when you move around. Hopefully there is a way to adjust their view relative to where our head is positioned when working on 3d mirrors. Still flabbergasted every time I go `in` lfs with the rift, amazing! It still hasn't lost any wow factor yet & I'm thinking my triple screen setup has now had its day!

Quote from adrianstealth :

I ve not seen any micro stutters

Look 90degrees left or right while driving & you will see the scenery micro stutter. It's not something you really notice while racing unless you are literally neck & neck down an entire straight with someone & have to keep looking 90degrees to one side to check where they are!

Going back to the physics micro-stutter, am I correct in thinking that if by chance the next rift is a 100hz screen then the micro stutter will be gone as the screen would match the physics exactly? Also, if the physics were ever updated to say 1000hz then it wouldn't matter what the screen hz was as long as it was under the 1000 it would still be perfectly smooth?

Spent a long time testing last night. I'm starting to think my shadow ghosting problem isn't actually anything wrong with lfs and it's just my brain which has started to notice it. Therefore I believe it's just a trait of the display and the true black smearing. An oculus employee did twitter they know about the issue and already have a fix for it. I was sad it hasn't made the light of day yet though but I imagine there's pros & cons with the fix as it has to do with turning the pixel off etc.

The problem is forgotten about when racing, it's mainly noticeable when stationary and looking around the cars interior.

I found one other small issue, when driving down a straight and looking 90 degrees left or right, the scenery isn't smooth as you drive by, it stutters. Has anyone else noticed this?

I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, lfs with a dk2 is just the best gaming experience I have ever had. It really is the next level. I can't begin to imagine lfs with the new tyre physics, new content and a rift CV1. Scawen, you have done an amazing job, in fact it's sooo good you've made the dk2 better than most people thought possible. Good times ahead hopefully

I tried the MRT5 last night which probably gives you the best sense of speed as you can see the ground right beneath you and tricks me into thinking the FOV is wider. Wow, what an experience even just driving with the AI. Slip streaming right up to another MRT5 gearbox and pulling out for an overtake and then watching the car next to you side by side before pulling off a move is just mind blowing. The other cars just seem so real and the right size. They seem big and look like they have mass which never happened on a monitor. As I was following close behind another MRT5 I thought I saw sparks as it bottomed out on the straight but it was actually just the low resolution of the screen but how cool would sparks be while wearing the rift! Anyway, getting carried away.

My rift demo works fine. The problem only exists in lfs. I have 780ti so no problems with fps. Can get 333.3 with vsync off with multiple AI cars. My ghosting just appeared all of a sudden. Going to try a full re-install of my entire pc to see if this fixes the problem. Mine does look slightly different than the other guys problem though. His whole mirror looks like there are two mirrors over each other (unless it's just the photo). My problem is if you look at any object and move your head it blurs the object with a black shadow either side of it. It doesn't have to be a fully black object to do this. If you turn low persistence off, everything blurs but with it on it's really smooth except for this weird shadow blur thing. Another way to explain it is: the tuscany demo that everyone is complaining about when looking up at the rafter and seeing all the true black smearing, well it's like that but on any colour object (although black is worse).

EDIT*** My rift is on the right side of my main monitor. Will try the left and report back before doing a full re-install.

Quote from cmorosco :

Its funny. The implementation of LFS is so good that the ghosting is really clear now when you move from side to side. This isn't the black smearing but looks like everything has a shadow trail it for a second no matter the color of the item.

Anyone else see this?

Is this an issue with the panel itself? I heard something about the panels ghosting for one frame in HW.

This is exactly what my dk2 started to do. It was when I was changing resolutions in lfs. All of a sudden it started to ghost & not just true blacks. It didn't do it before & it says I'm at 75fps in lfs & low persistence is on & does make a difference. It's really bad & annoying I can't get it to stop doing it. A shadow trail on everything is the best way to explain it. I have the latest lfs patch. I'm glad I'm not the only one. (What does HW mean?)

Another way to explain it is for example in an lx4. Before, I could stare ahead whilst looking at the dials & move my head from side to side fairly quickly. The dials would stay totally still & grounded to the scene. But now they shadow blur from side to side. Which makes it seem like they are moving & not grounded to the car. The weird thing is when my dk2 started to do it, it was literally like a switch. Perfect one second, then changed res & then boom it was all smeary & ghosty yet moving my head around is still buttery smooth

There is still the possibility my brain just started to notice it all of a sudden but I'm still 80/20 thinking something changed to make it do that smearing. cmorosco, did your dk2 not do this in lfs at any stage? Or was it always like this?

Last edited by Alric, Thu 14 Aug 2014, 08:22. Reason : More info

Can somebody do a quick test for me please. I tried to add a custom resolution which worked although for some reason I think the 1920x1080 looks sharper. I played around a bit and then all of a sudden something seemed to change when swapping between the resolutions in lfs. It seems the black smear (which I only ever noticed slightly in tuscany demo) has got worse on my dk2. Before, when in a car I could move my head around and I noticed zero black smear, now it's jumping out at me, looking at the right mirror and moving left to right creates a black smear or line or shimmer. Looking down at the black leather seats is horrific. Can someone look at the mirror and move around & see if it does this as I don't remember it doing it at all over the last few days.

It could just be me and for some reason my brain is now noticing it or maybe something has gone wrong with lfs, my dk2 or the sdk. I'm going to try a clean install of the sdk and lfs and see what happens.

Tested for the first time last night. To sum up it is a truly amazing experience!

I won't go over what others have said but add my own observations. With vsync on as I drive everything is buttery smooth when looking ahead etc however I do notice some juddering when I look 90 degrees left or right when a car is next to me. It's not the head movement, that is still smooth. It's the AI car I'm looking at slowly overtaking me that is stuttering slightly. Same goes for fixed scenery but I can only notice it judder when I'm looking out the side windows and staring at the fixed object. Nothing too bad but not seen anyone else mention that.

Having the vrx motion simulator actually helps with my sickness because for example when coming to a stop, my brain is expecting the feeling you get in a real car when coming to an abrupt stop. With motion off I get a bit queasy when I do that but with motion on there is a similar force to real life (no where near as powerful but a force non the less) which helps my brain to accept what I'm seeing. Did about 1 hour and was fine when concentrating but if I start looking at scenery and menus too much while moving then I get ill. Will see how that improves with time. I still believe we need more FOV to help with nausea & immersion although I don't notice it any worse than dk1.

I have had to turn down the motion effects because unlike real life the bouncing of the simulator moves my head and then the goggles kind of rattle on my head which makes it too difficult to focus on anything especially over curbs etc. Got it set up pretty good for a first try now.

For me vysnc on is much smoother than off at 300fps and induces no noticeable lag.

Can't wait to test more tonight & try different tracks / car combos. 3d mirrors will be the icing on the cake.

Gf has just told me my dk2 has arrived at home. Can't wait to get some serious testing in tonight. I hope I manage to set it all up correctly. I'm also wondering if the nvidia control panel will play ball and let me force AA or I might have to try create a custom resolution but I've never managed to do that before. Anyway, shall report my findings later.

Thanks Scawen, one of the best things about lfs is the customisation & depth of options for setting up the game just right for each individual.

My dk2 should ship any day (24th march order) so can't wait to get stuck in & start testing.

Yes apart from vsync & Chromatic aberration 3d mirrors sound really really interesting especially for adding some more presence. I can't actually get my head around how that will look & haven't as yet tried any dk1 demo with a 3d mirror in it but it sure sounds amazing.

I guess also going forward car interiors need to be more refined than before as now dk2 gives us the ability to move around inside the cockpit and see things that you wouldn't on a monitor although judging by the video review in the caterham style car I didn't see any holes or problems. Keep up the good work.

Could someone explain to me how low persistence is enabled. People talk as though a developer can basically turn it on or off in their coding but I thought as long as you were above 75fps low persistence worked. Where am I going wrong? Are low persistence and motion blur two separate things? I thought judging by the oculus site that low persistence is the reducing of motion blur and judder. Also cybereality has stated a few times that vsync should always be on with the dk2.

Last edited by Alric, Thu 7 Aug 2014, 09:21. Reason : more info