Everyone who has a duplicate guess or isn't pleased with their modified format-fitting time has 25 minutes to post an update.
The red highlighted bets will be deleted just before I leave, and any further guesses will be ignored. Last call!
The red highlighted bets will be deleted just before I leave, and any further guesses will be ignored. Last call!
That's not a bad selection of cars across a few power ranges and configs: FF, FA, FR (or FMR if you want to be picky), MR and RR.
Too far away! I don't want to have to wait til the end of the month just for a demo, dammit!
The other thing they should do is what Lionhead did with the Fable 2 Pub Games. Release the car decal designer as a seperate download so we can get our paint jobs ready for launch
Too far away! I don't want to have to wait til the end of the month just for a demo, dammit!
The other thing they should do is what Lionhead did with the Fable 2 Pub Games. Release the car decal designer as a seperate download so we can get our paint jobs ready for launch
Any chance you want to just let me have it for £20 right now?
Lesser of two evils, that question. The MS wheel has a reputation for overheating as well
If your console is having non-RRoD issues, you can cause your own RRoD on purpose so they'll repair it for free. Just block all the ventilation and run something demanding, it'll keel over eventually
I got my first 360 repaired, but the second time I had to send it back I wrote them a note requesting a new console rather than just keeping on fixing the old one. And that's what they did. It's a far smarter move for them since they don't want to keep paying couriers to collect them.
I got my first 360 repaired, but the second time I had to send it back I wrote them a note requesting a new console rather than just keeping on fixing the old one. And that's what they did. It's a far smarter move for them since they don't want to keep paying couriers to collect them.
I expect a lot of them could be done via InSim. If they can track 0-60 times then it can measure distance driven for those kinds of achievements. But I can't think of any decent non-distance-related achievements that would be worth adding.
I hate you all
I'm now happy to accept a G25 from whichever one of you wants to buy it for me. Think of it as payment for me being so nice to everyone. I've even doing you a favour by waiting until it's cheap
Since the PC version isn't out til December, that'd be really early even for Play
This is the first time I've seen that and I'm in exactly the same place.
Bits of it remind me of the '65 Mustang and, obviously, the original 300SL. So those bits are retro. Other parts remind me of newer vert coupes like the S2000 (those front lights and the lines along the sides especially). But I can't decide if the combination is sweet or whether it's a crime against design.
When is the cutoff point for the bets, Mr Danowat?
I won't be around much over the weekend (even less than normal), so 5pm GMT tomorrow would be my choice. The entries have slowed down a lot over the last couple of days so I expect that they'll trail off even more by tomorrow evening.
So far we have around 220 people competing, which is quite an impressive run.
I won't be around much over the weekend (even less than normal), so 5pm GMT tomorrow would be my choice. The entries have slowed down a lot over the last couple of days so I expect that they'll trail off even more by tomorrow evening.
So far we have around 220 people competing, which is quite an impressive run.
LFS has no mods because it's not a complete product yet and as such it can and will be changed at any time.
Take the next change. What if someone had created a Scirocco as a mod? It'd now be pointless. There'd be some things they'd done differently in design and handling, some people would prefer Scawen's, some would prefer the mod. The community would be split and nobody would be happy.
I think we may have veered a little away from the achievements discussion and should probably aim to get back there soon
Achievements. Fine for some things, probably pointless in LFS.
There's only one that I can think may have some value, and that's one that noted your completion of the tutorials and therefor your implied understanding of the basic rules of driving.
Take the next change. What if someone had created a Scirocco as a mod? It'd now be pointless. There'd be some things they'd done differently in design and handling, some people would prefer Scawen's, some would prefer the mod. The community would be split and nobody would be happy.
I think we may have veered a little away from the achievements discussion and should probably aim to get back there soon
Achievements. Fine for some things, probably pointless in LFS.
There's only one that I can think may have some value, and that's one that noted your completion of the tutorials and therefor your implied understanding of the basic rules of driving.
Boris, until you've played it I don't think it's worth writing off. If you can play an arcade racer with a pad then you can handle Forza. GT is another issue for reasons I've discussed in that thread, but Forza's innate assists work really well for the pad.
No, all of the things in MSFS by default are dedicated to just flying the plane. You might have more to do than in a standard racing car, but it's all course corrections, weather navigation, fuel planning, etc - simply standard jobs that come with flying a plane from one location to another.
And there's no point including mods in your argument, because LFS has no direct comparison.
But think about the difference in the amount of analogue control you have on a pad compared to a wheel. I've tried to play LFS on a 360 pad so I feel I'm 100% qualified to say this.
On a joypad you have to cover the full in-car steering wheel rotation over the space of about half an inch - how far the analogue stick moves from one lock to the other. Even on my crappy wheel, I have 180 degrees of steering lock over something like 12 inches. That's far less game turning per real-life turning.
So console games need to have dynamic pad steering sensitivity. GTR2 has it and it's the one thing I'd like to see in LFS. The faster your car is going, the less movement the pad equates to, so correcting your line on a straight by nudging the stick doesn't make you spin out because the game interprets it as a 90 degree steering lock.
Analogue isn't the only argument, the AMOUNT of analogue is an equally important factor
On a joypad you have to cover the full in-car steering wheel rotation over the space of about half an inch - how far the analogue stick moves from one lock to the other. Even on my crappy wheel, I have 180 degrees of steering lock over something like 12 inches. That's far less game turning per real-life turning.
So console games need to have dynamic pad steering sensitivity. GTR2 has it and it's the one thing I'd like to see in LFS. The faster your car is going, the less movement the pad equates to, so correcting your line on a straight by nudging the stick doesn't make you spin out because the game interprets it as a 90 degree steering lock.
Analogue isn't the only argument, the AMOUNT of analogue is an equally important factor
I can't be bothered trawling through the posts to work out who said what, so here's my general rebuttal.
First of all, the most successful and popular flight sim of all time is JUST flying a plane. No combat, no bombs or guns, no other players, just you and the physics of actually flying a plane.
MMOs are a unique animal in that you can't actually win at them and it's rare that top-end events are quest-related (outside of progressing as a guild rather than an individual). Most end-game content is repeating the same raid instances over and over until you've all got the best gear. Achievements have been added to some to make the concept of farming more interesting. Which I think says a lot about the game content.
If you can't win races or practice very often, then what difference is having a line of text achievement going to make to you? You'll know when you've covered distance or something? As I said before, LFSW will tell you that and you can already chart your personal improvements. It's no use for showing people who don't play LFS, because they don't care. And people in LFS don't care because they would already have them.
It would negatively affect performance, since it would be adding more load to your CPU and the LFSW server. And since there's already a million physics calcs slowing people down, more calcs would be a stupid idea.
And it doesn't add to gameplay because any achievements added would be things you're supposed to be doing anyway. Maybe punishing people for NOT doing these things would be better? You overheat your clutch 10 times and it bans you for 24 hours.
If you find LFS boring as it is, then clearly sim racing is not for you. The clue is in the genre name. "Sim" and in "simulation". And "racing" as in "the desire to finish in a high position by moving quickly". That's it.
Achievements and trophies work in console games because they have been built from the ground up to be far more suited to people playing for shorter periods. They have the networking in place to track everything the player does with the express intention of rewarding them when they accomplish something the developer thinks will keep them playing.
And that's all it is - false replay value. Because it's there and incomplete, you feel obliged to go and fill that bar. 15 or 20 years ago games had replay value because you had a good playing experience, not because the instruction manual said there was a secret and if you repeated the same task 400 times you'd see a secret ending.
The comparisons with Forza are a bit unfair. It's geared as a mainly single player game with a multiplayer aspect, so it needs cups and challenges. LFS is sold as an online racing sim, so everything in there should be player-generated. There are loads of really professionally run leagues and cups running, so just imagine those are a virtual experience.
It's not about liking or disliking an idea, it's about what it brings to LFS and the community. I'm of the opinion (although it sounds slightly snobby) that if you don't want to get online and race as fast as you can, then online racing is probably not for you. It makes sense. I don't go out and play football because I'm not interested; I wouldn't join a club and then try to convince them that by changing the rules and adding some guy to track the distance I run per match, I'd suddenly be interested in playing football.
First of all, the most successful and popular flight sim of all time is JUST flying a plane. No combat, no bombs or guns, no other players, just you and the physics of actually flying a plane.
MMOs are a unique animal in that you can't actually win at them and it's rare that top-end events are quest-related (outside of progressing as a guild rather than an individual). Most end-game content is repeating the same raid instances over and over until you've all got the best gear. Achievements have been added to some to make the concept of farming more interesting. Which I think says a lot about the game content.
If you can't win races or practice very often, then what difference is having a line of text achievement going to make to you? You'll know when you've covered distance or something? As I said before, LFSW will tell you that and you can already chart your personal improvements. It's no use for showing people who don't play LFS, because they don't care. And people in LFS don't care because they would already have them.
It would negatively affect performance, since it would be adding more load to your CPU and the LFSW server. And since there's already a million physics calcs slowing people down, more calcs would be a stupid idea.
And it doesn't add to gameplay because any achievements added would be things you're supposed to be doing anyway. Maybe punishing people for NOT doing these things would be better? You overheat your clutch 10 times and it bans you for 24 hours.
If you find LFS boring as it is, then clearly sim racing is not for you. The clue is in the genre name. "Sim" and in "simulation". And "racing" as in "the desire to finish in a high position by moving quickly". That's it.
Achievements and trophies work in console games because they have been built from the ground up to be far more suited to people playing for shorter periods. They have the networking in place to track everything the player does with the express intention of rewarding them when they accomplish something the developer thinks will keep them playing.
And that's all it is - false replay value. Because it's there and incomplete, you feel obliged to go and fill that bar. 15 or 20 years ago games had replay value because you had a good playing experience, not because the instruction manual said there was a secret and if you repeated the same task 400 times you'd see a secret ending.
The comparisons with Forza are a bit unfair. It's geared as a mainly single player game with a multiplayer aspect, so it needs cups and challenges. LFS is sold as an online racing sim, so everything in there should be player-generated. There are loads of really professionally run leagues and cups running, so just imagine those are a virtual experience.
It's not about liking or disliking an idea, it's about what it brings to LFS and the community. I'm of the opinion (although it sounds slightly snobby) that if you don't want to get online and race as fast as you can, then online racing is probably not for you. It makes sense. I don't go out and play football because I'm not interested; I wouldn't join a club and then try to convince them that by changing the rules and adding some guy to track the distance I run per match, I'd suddenly be interested in playing football.
As a rock band frontman, I have to defend the use of spandex in some situations
Not that I own any (yet), but I'd happily wear a lot of the stuff Steven Tyler does
Not that I own any (yet), but I'd happily wear a lot of the stuff Steven Tyler does
I know what "holding someone up" means, but how are they going to prove it was done with malice and forethought? As I said, there's lots of reasons for dropping your speed. Admittedly, with that drop in speed should come a lane change, but you can't start punishing people for just being crap drivers (although I think they should).
Stolen, yes. Clipped them, no
How many cylinders is that? 12 you say?
And how many turbochargers? 4 should just about be enough.
Madness.
It's pretty easy to determine "intent" to skid, it'll be obvious from the blatant use of hardbrake or hammering into a corner too fast. You don't accidentally lose traction at town driving speeds.
They'd have a harder time proving some of the others though, like slowing down with the intention of holding someone up. Be easy enough to say you had to slow down because you had something in your eye or you were coughing.
And driving slow to get close to something or someone. Not sure why that would be a crime. Most of us would call that "parking".
They'd have a harder time proving some of the others though, like slowing down with the intention of holding someone up. Be easy enough to say you had to slow down because you had something in your eye or you were coughing.
And driving slow to get close to something or someone. Not sure why that would be a crime. Most of us would call that "parking".
What kind of man are you? Of course he should hurt other people. If they get in his way he needs to step on their heads. Push them out of the way, trip them up. All's fair in love and marathons.
Besides, if they start chasing him then he'll not only finish quicker but the adrenaline will give him a nice boost.
There is no downside!
I'd be happy to wear a Miami Vice-style suit, but I will never grow a mullet.
Shame it's not the 70s, because then my band might suddenly become popular
Shame it's not the 70s, because then my band might suddenly become popular
@Renku
It's me who's doing the spreadsheet, not danowat, but consider it fixed anyway
@theirishnoob
As a forum veteran you should know better than making such a noob mistake
Everyone else, there may be typos or mistakes or even some guesses that have been missed out entirely. Let me know and I'll fix them.
It's me who's doing the spreadsheet, not danowat, but consider it fixed anyway
@theirishnoob
As a forum veteran you should know better than making such a noob mistake
Everyone else, there may be typos or mistakes or even some guesses that have been missed out entirely. Let me know and I'll fix them.
"Around the World - You have driven 24901.5 miles!"
Awesome, now I am a true man. Because anyone who was really that interested couldn't open up LFSW to check.
"My Aston Hurts - You have completed 500 laps of AS5"
Ditto
"Lift THEN shift - You have overheated your clutch to the point of having no acceleration 25 times!"
Well done, something to be proud of.
I stand by my previous comments. Achievements are a pop culture fad. They have no value unless they count towards something and it would mean LFSW needed to track way too much stuff.
Awesome, now I am a true man. Because anyone who was really that interested couldn't open up LFSW to check.
"My Aston Hurts - You have completed 500 laps of AS5"
Ditto
"Lift THEN shift - You have overheated your clutch to the point of having no acceleration 25 times!"
Well done, something to be proud of.
I stand by my previous comments. Achievements are a pop culture fad. They have no value unless they count towards something and it would mean LFSW needed to track way too much stuff.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG