Quote from Scawen :

Good results!

Even though Vista is slightly lagged compared with XP, 0.05 really isn't a problem at all. Using waveOut, you needed 0.25 to 0.30 to eliminate constant glitching with Vista.

Vista people, please verify that the delay is "true". What I mean is, when you set to that safe value of 0.05, and you then change the frequency with A and Z, is the delay really that small? 0.05 should be unnoticeable.

You'll know if there's a problem, i.e. a "hidden lag" because the changing of the frequency would be noticeably delayed after pressing the A or Z key (sort of like it is when you set to 0.30).

What I'm trying to establish, is 0.05 in Vista the same as it is in XP (i.e. too small to perceive).

Did not hear any delay in Vista.

WinXP SP2, Realtek HD Audio, Okay till 0.02s, not okay at 0.01s.

Will update with message with Win Vista Build 5744 (RC2) in a few minutes.

Vista Build 5744 (RC 2), Realtek HD Audio, Okay till 0.03s, not okay at 0.02-0.01s.

Scratches in both cases.

Last edited by DanneDA, Sun 15 Oct 2006, 13:09.

Anyone willing to give it a shot?

Looks like a very nice livery.

Still not in stock anywhere in Sweden, doesn't look like it'll come in this week. I really need a new wheel now.

Quote from Jakg :

when i say 100% i mean that they (just like Vista itself) is beta, and has a few random bugs, but they aren't too bad, although i'm really not a fan of Vista

Vista got a lot better in RC2, feels more responsive and much faster to install (like a thrid of the previous time).

Still some things that need to be done before RTM tho.

Drivers installed, have "clicking" sound every other second or so (have same problem in XP with U20), works "somewhat" in Vista anyhow.

Crappy drivers is really annoying, hope some proper drivers get released soon.

I want to be able to use my H-buttons to, particular WLAN & Audio (only changes the sound for the H-button application now).


Enough testing for tonight, gotta go to bed soon if I want to be able to wake up for the F1 race tomorrow morning.

Going to try this in Vista RC2 in a few minutes, just need to get the sound working in Vista (all pre installed drivers sucks in RC2).

Been suggested many times, possible that this will be implented, but by no ways definitve.

+1, but I think other things are more important, like all physics, rain etc.

When it's done.


S2 isn't even finished so...

Quote from MAGGOT :

What on Earth is a jaffa cake?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_cake

When I was racing LFS a little earlier I heard a crack when accelerating out of a corner, didn't think that much of it at the time, coming to the next corner I heard another crack and now the pedal became very lose, requiring very little force to use the pedal.

When this happend I lost about 1-3 secs a lap depending a little how the pedal behaved when using it. This was at the end of the race with only a few laps left to do and I managed to win, lost about 15 secs during the final laps.

When the race was over I decided to open up the pedals to see what had broken off in the pedal, turnout it was a metal pin, about 2.5" long. The break had occured inside the pedal "tube" (to where the pedal itself is connected and the pot is connected). The crack in the pin is about 1/6" long and is uneven, metal fatigue the cause?

Each of the pedals have 2 of these pins to create resistance in the pedal and to hold it in place (without it the pedal wouldn't be attached to anything), now with only one left, the pedal bends slightly making the pot come out of it's housing, and the pin that is left gets much more force applied to it, so the more I use it the worse it gets.

Managed to set a new PB before it broke with .01 sec, and I'm probably not going to get beyond that with the wheel/pedal now.

I'm quite surprised that the wheel/pedals hadn't broken until now, it's over 6 years old. They have been used quite heavily during parts of this time, but hey, it's still sorta works. I wonder if you can completely wreck it...

Time to order the G25 I guess, could be in stock on tuesday so perhaps thursday I have a new wheel (depening on when in the day I order it)...

Can't wait for the next update.


And Yama, one more spelling-error:
Cansel is wrong, it's Cancel.
And you're missing the last "e" in reverse in one screen, however it seems like it doesnt fit in the gap there it's written.


--

And is it possible to share configs for the sound? If so someone has to make a kickass soundconfig for the FZR.

The store I'm probably going to order from have a preliminary date of Oktober 3rd, order is of a "significant number", with more coming at next shipping (if sold out that is).

Did 1 lap on the same track with same set and car.

This is the first time I did this combo in LFS, and never gone around the track that way with mouse (only driven the other Aston-"north" configs) so I was quite carefull on the throttle, didn't use any sound either.

Take a look a little how I am driving to see what you can learn.



little note: I do not drive the BF1 normally, nor do I use a mouse normally, just did this to show how you get around the track with the BF1.

What control are you using? I can't see how you lock your wheels with the Race_S set for the BF1 (at every corner). Please post a replay so we can see what you are doing right/wrong.

Good stuff!

A few language stuff to fix, unless you fixed them already (from the screen on your site, http://www.k5.dion.ne.jp/~yama-p/user.jpg):
Old | New
Editer = Editor
Engin = Engine
Grobal = Global

Or you can use AutoHotKey to use your paddles which uses other buttons to do the shifting.

Put this in a .ahk file (create a text file and rename it (with extension) to anything.ahk)):

You need to replace Joy7, Joy8, a and z to the buttons you use for shifting, you can also change Sleep if needed.

Or you can use AutoHotKey to use your paddles which uses other buttons to do the shifting.

Put this in a .ahk file (create a text file and rename it (with extension) to anything.ahk)):

You need to replace Joy7, Joy8, a and z to the buttons you use for shifting, you can also change Sleep if needed.

Okay, my settings (haven't used this computer that much so I haven't had time to post in this thread before).

From config file:

And seperate axis on throttle/brake, removed deadzones set ingame.

In the Wheel Settings in Windows I use these settings (Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback Wheel):

Dead Zone: Small
Sensitivity: Low

Force Feedback level: Off
Return to Center Tension: Off
Map front-back forces to wheel enabled

And a little update with the stuff above:


1. I think the FFB motor is dying (for lack of a better term), I can also feel minor "vibrations" in wheel while turning it and the FFB motor is somewhat noisy when the wheel is not centered (= when there are forces acting on the wheel).

2. See above, probably the same error.

3. With a little more testing I can now say that the wheel will go to full lock when turning the wheel slightly when not moving, or moving very slowly (<5 kph).

4. Haven't cleaned the wheel yet.

5. Found something odd about it: When throttle / brake center reduction is set to 0.6 the car looses revs and begin to lock wheels at about 80 kph when braking, when this setting is set to 1.0, the car doesn't lose revs and will not lock brakes. Both of the settings give full power to the brakes when reaching this speed. Will do some more testing to see exactly why this would happen.

Other than LFS it's Battlefield 2. Haven't played it for almost 2 months, got bored waiting for the new patch and all the god damn bugs!

Some clarification:

Quote from Hallen :

You contradict yourself there. I am not sure what you are asking. The FFB will react to the drivers' input and the physics affecting the car. You will feel differences in resistance throughout the spectrum depending on what is happening.

Quote from Shinrar :

The game generates a variety of forces depending on in-game conditions, however, I'm quite sure you should still notice a diffrence when between those settings. I know I do. If I turn my FFB too high, my wheel often kicks so hard that it almost yanks out of my hand, where-as on a more normal 60-100% range, it is manageable.

However, I think the effect you're describing is dampening (meaning, the FFB level wouldn't matter as much as the dampening level)... What wheel do you have?

Quote from Shotglass :

im not entire sure what your question is but how fast do you turn the wheel for those tests ?

I'm using a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback Wheel which is 6 (7?) years old (don't remember if I bought it before or after the computer I bought in early 2000, think it was before).

I'm using the Sidewinder software to control some of the wheel stuff, tried with centering spring set to off, FFB set to off, either on, or both on, all of these give the same result: the force required to turn the wheel ingame is the same when FFB ingame is set to 5 % as 200 %, turing the wheel at the same speed.

As for this resistance, it isn't the same from time to time (still the same for 5 % and 200 %), say should I try the wheel now, I wouldn't have to use the same force as the last time I used it. This could change while using the wheel in a session (have to take a corner as it were the first time).

Quote from Hallen :

Depends a bit on the car and the settings, but generally, yes. The steering should get a bit lighter when you are understeering.

Quote from Shinrar :

Hallen talked about understeer. In oversteer, yes, you should lose resistance, and here is why: When you oversteer, your front tires want to point in the direction inertia is carrying the car. That happens to be the same direction you're countersteering into (usually ). Now, if your FFB motor is turning the wheel left (to simulate this pull), and so are you (to save your car from crashing) you'll feel a lot less resistance when turning.

It loses resistance in both directions, and sometimes it is as the FFB-motor dies, meaning no resistance what so ever (or a big difference in resistance).

Quote from Hallen :

Probably not. What are your settings? Typically, in LFS you should set the FFB overall amont to where you like it, both in the wheel settings and in LFS. Set the spring effect and damping to 0. Most people say to leave the centering spring on, but set to 0.

Quote from Shinrar :

If you're in a Rear-wheel Drive car, going at moderate-high (above twenty Miles per hour) speeds makes the car VERY touchy. The slight turn of the wheel will more than likely cause the car to 'snap' into a full turn, often winding up in a 180 degree turn (which is why J-turns are so easy to perform). Try going in reverse at, say, 5 miles per hour. The 'snap' to full lock should go away (but it will still tug. How much depends on your FFB setting).

I've had this happen to every car, no matter what settings used. The effects aren't exactly the same strength depending on car/set, but it's still quite strong, and this happens at speeds around 8-12 MPH.

Quote from Hallen :

Uh, just point and spray?

Without canned air.

Quote from Shinrar :

Without canned air? I use an air compressor for all my cleaning needs, but without that either, I would take a static free dust rag of some sort (I think they make them for moniters) and give it a wipe down.

Will try that.

Quote from Hallen :

This has nothing to do with FFB. It seems that the brakes can completely lock the drivetrain without locking the wheels, or there is a bug where the wheels are locked, but not squeeling, I am not sure which it is. Anyway, try reducing the brake amount you have set for the car or moving the brake bias further forward (or rearward on a FWD car). This seems to mostly happen with the LSD diff on the higher powered cars, so you might try the locked diff.

Quote from Shinrar :

Thats a... moderatly complex physics issue. Actually, your drive wheels are slipping under brakage. They haven't 'locked up' yet, as in they're still turning, but they're turning slower than the car is moving (thus a sharp drop in revs). This is because the engine and driveshaft keep the wheels spinning, but braking has slowed them down enough that they're actually sliding across the pavement. However, that being said, -all- your revs shouldn't go away. It should be a slow, steady, decrease in revs, and if you're downshifting as well as braking, the revs shouldn't drop that low.

Oh, and a note on the slipage while braking, I hear that its the most efficient way to apply stopping power... Someone might correct me on that, but it might not be a bad thing!

This only started happening while tweaking my controls using the ingame menu settings, braking at the same point as before, getting full power, letting go of brakes at the correct time, and I lose revs. Before changing the control settings this didn't happen, in fact I was unable to do this at will.

I have some questions regarding the FFB in LFS.

1. Should the wheel have the same resistance in the wheel when turning at 5 % and at 200 %? Mine does this. However the resistance isn't the same when used, sometimes it's light, sometimes it's heavy.

2. When getting oversteer, should the wheel lose nearly all resistance when trying to correct the oversteer? Mine does this too.

3. When reversing should the wheel go to full lock when only slightly turning the wheel? Seen the pattern? Yeah, mine does this too.

And a final question:

How would I go about to clean my wheel without canned air?

Oh and before I forget,

Is it reasonable for a car to lose all revs when braking without locking the wheels and still going 70 kph+?

Quote from Scawen :

If you told me that all U20 servers were laggy compared with previous versions then I'd look at it as an LFS problem. But you've only told me that one server is laggy. So it's nearly 100% certain that there is a problem with that server, and very unlikely to be a new LFS problem, specially seeing as the network code hasn't changed in any way.

Okay so probably a problem with their server. I wonder what would cause it.

I've checked their site and noticed this in perticular:

Quote :

Summary for Banshee:

So with the servers, does not clap yet now has sometimes different patches in run - events patch U - Racing 1 patch U19 and always the same " time out " Hmm, and I do not know what I should still do, time slowly becomes the Hawky comes again

Found in this thread (in german): http://d-r-t.net/sys/e107_plug ... um_viewtopic.php?725.last

Quote from Scawen :

It was known in one of the earlier test patches and I was able to reproduce it, if LFS started up in full screen mode, then after going to window, it would not go back to full screen mode correctly. But if LFS started up in a window, then it could go full screen and windowed as many times as you like.

But a reason for this was found and it was fixed. I can't reproduce it now, and I don't remember hearing from many people that this was a problem. I guess it's quite rare and probably depends on which drivers you have?

Or do you know a special sequence of events that can reproduce this every time? I think this would be better discussed in the bug reports forum. If you want to start a thread over there and post a link here, that would be helpful. Thanks.

This happend to me on U19, haven't played enough of U20 to see if I could reproduce it. Basicly window/fullscreen/windowing several times while doing stuff in the background (like browsing).

Quote from DanneDA :

And 1 more thing, last night after I finished a race and went to windowed mode to browse the web to wait for the race to restart. While I was getting ready to enter the game again the LFS window turned black, I still had sound and all controls left, tried to go to full screen, problem still there. Went back to windowed mode and still black screen. I had to exit the game by pressing the Window exit button.
I do not know if this is related to anything in LFS or the test patches (U19 in this case), could as well be a problem with my computer, or simply another bug in Windows, just wanted to let you know that there could be some kind of problem when going from window to full screen while doing. other things with the computer.

Will do some testing to see if I can reproduce it.

I haven't seen anything on my laptop while doing similar things. Only happend on my desktop which is overclocked. Both computers are Intel CPU:s with Intel chipsets with nVidia graphics cards (6800 GS AGP and Go 7300).

Scawen,

I went on the [D-R-T] Racing 1 server yesterday and several times the server crashed or dropped several people on it. I think I was in maybe 3-4 races that the server crashed (all of them I had a good chance to win) and was dropped from the server. It seemed like it couldn't handle a full server.
I have been on that server quite a lot lately and this is the first time I've seen in it do this. So you might want to check out the server stability in U20.
Also noted that the server was "laggy" in responses (votes, pit in, join, spectate etc.), and sometimes not noted at all.

Looks like I'm the first to encounter a small problem. I was racing on the D-R-T server I passed several others (I belive) but the thing is I passed LAG messages not cars. I've attached the replay of this race, it happend on the end of the 5th lap and a minute into the 6th lap... or maybe not, mpr file is too large, I'm uploading it to my site right now... file coming soon.

--

Start "lag" is gone... great work! (Though I did have an accident in the start, wasn't paying attention to the cars was looking for the "lag").

--

And 1 more thing, last night after I finished a race and went to windowed mode to browse the web to wait for the race to restart. While I was getting ready to enter the game again the LFS window turned black, I still had sound and all controls left, tried to go to full screen, problem still there. Went back to windowed mode and still black screen. I had to exit the game by pressing the Window exit button.
I do not know if this is related to anything in LFS or the test patches (U19 in this case), could as well be a problem with my computer, or simply another bug in Windows, just wanted to let you know that there could be some kind of problem when going from window to full screen while doing. other things with the computer.


--

Ok, the upload is ready, it's a little over 3 MB, contains the entire race, the laps are end of 5th and begining of 6th.
Replay

Just a NOTE: I don't know if the replay can show the problem or not, but I should have passed a few other cars during this time, well, something was wrong then I drove anyway.


(Oh and sorry for my crappy driving, my wheel don't agree with me how to drive fast. I am looking for a new wheel)

--

Now when I have seen the replay myself, I can see a problem, when I got to turn 1 (180 turn), I passed a lag-marker while driving, in the replay this didn't happen. In the replay you can see that someone crashes into the tires at the harpin, I did NOT, see any of this while driving myself, no one was infront of me. Wierdest thing I've ever seen.

Last edited by DanneDA, Fri 18 Aug 2006, 11:54.