i play mouse a lot myself...
...but that sure is no comparison to having a proper wheel + pedal setup!
Get yourself a reletavely inexpensive logitech "driving force PRO" - and you're in control of the car rather than judging your next action by the reaction you determine after you can see you the ting on your screen drifting away.
To put it plain and simple:
Yes -
it is possible to drive the bf1 with mouse steer and a well-chosen traction control setting.
NO -
it is NOT possible to race it that way. Even anything less powerful than a GTR is really hard to actually RACE with mouse, speaking from experience - You will have to aquire more than some skill to do so AND you will almost always think - "Why didn't I save for some proper wheel(...)"
If you are really interested in sim-driving
, trust me on this, forget about any joystick and get yourself a proper wheel: either dfp or g25 would be the choice for you if you aren't a millionaire.
Get yourself a reletavely inexpensive logitech "driving force PRO" - and you're in control of the car rather than judging your next action by the reaction you determine after you can see you the ting on your screen drifting away.
To put it plain and simple:
Yes -
it is possible to drive the bf1 with mouse steer and a well-chosen traction control setting.
NO -
it is NOT possible to race it that way. Even anything less powerful than a GTR is really hard to actually RACE with mouse, speaking from experience - You will have to aquire more than some skill to do so AND you will almost always think - "Why didn't I save for some proper wheel(...)"
If you are really interested in sim-driving
, trust me on this, forget about any joystick and get yourself a proper wheel: either dfp or g25 would be the choice for you if you aren't a millionaire.
That would be wonderful to have one or two additional track environments featuring narrow, twisty and bumpy real-world tarmac.
Another thing that buggs me is, that all the current
track environments in lfs are more or less very plain and repetetive. Maybe that is just me thinking like this because lfs is merely the only "game" i continously play all the time.
Fact is: i am desperate for some more tracks, much more than after new cars!!
Especially some more touring car circuits would really add up to the sim. For me the only track environment worth racing with standard road cars is fern bay. All other tracks, even the beloved blackwood are far too wide for my liking and lack in variety of flavour concerning their corners.
What makes blackwood more interesting again after a long time owning my S2-license
is that there is actually one corner that doesn't bend down to it's inner side.
I think we need more touring car competition -like tracks, or at least one where is no more space available than for 2 cars and thus giving back the joy when racing the smaller cars.
Well then, enough for now - or i'll glue on to my keyboard even more(...)
Greets [D-R-T] DrBen
For what i can tell about the black, plastic momo ("momo racing force") you really should do the following:
(with plugged in & powered on wheel) go to controll-panel --> select gaming gear --> momo racing --> properties
and now make sure that only the top slider (stating "ffb-strength" afair) has a value different than ZERO, all others should be turned down to 0, so that those (optional) special effects don't interfere with what the game is generating in ffb-output):fence3d:
you really should do that. IMHO rbr and flsLFS are -still- the only serious PC-simulations so far. :bowdown: Shame that S2 still yet neither has that kind of rallying stages nor the kind of perfect {1200kg/280bhp+50/50 weight ratio + fully adjustable 4wd-differential} WRC-car that would allow us to compare the two a little better.
Last but not least, an important hint will be to get started with the shipped (since patch-level S) "Race S"-Setups for the cars. they're not the fastest or even competitive but their handling is way more like racing than the built-in "street" or "rally-cross" options --and a good point to start and derive your own sets from.
Greets
[D-R-T]DrBen
Edit:sorry for the typo
Last edited by DrBen, .
i cannot make up my mind ybout this
firstly because i have used a mouse in demo-racing (since alpha 0.2). At the time of the S2-Demo release i joined a team, got hooked up even more by the great gameplay and, since about a year, i use one of those easy-to-brake black momos.
I still think thati am more capable of steering more precise by using the mouse than i will ever be able when using the wheel. Undoubtadly though, the wheel is much more fun and has the advantage of way more precise pedal-input in the sence of acceleration and braking.
An other issue is that current FF is, AFAIK, implemented into the direct-input part of Microsoft's DirectX-Toolkit. And thus the wheel you put into your usb-connector won't be much of a difference concerning the LAG some of you seem to experience.
The other thing is that when using the wheel (i drive with in-game around 60-65% ffb, with no added spring-stuff in the driver whatsoever, just the regular ffb set to 100%) and going a straight line fast with the roadcars (e.g. the straight on as-nat-rev) i notice that the overall control in steering is put off somewhat by the fact that the ff-motor inside the wheel doesn't match the input-resolution and thus making me and the car "shiver" a little. When using mouse it "feels" much more like the real thing since the input rsolution is pretty good and won't be affected by any ffb-related drawbacks.
However i haven't tried another wheel, at least if i don't count the short episode of using my now-broken thrustmaster enzo( the one i started wheel-driving with) that didn't last for more than 2 months or so. Funny thing is, i think that i remember using the enzo-wheel was much less noisy ffb-wise. Ok, the steering-input was less precise on that wheel BUT less affected by the ffb-motor since it didn't provide such a stiff amount self-inducted friction.
Overall i think that, no matter how good the wheel is, the ffb is most likely never to be just right in the sense of LAG. But i for one didn't experience any real LAG up to now. If there is something like this that one thinks to "feel" i think it has another background.
I really hope that the G25(with two ffb-motors) in October will at least reduce the friction of the wheel when turning. And i hope that thus the precision felt when driving will be upped compared to the black momo. And please, no cluttering with ffb-effects in the driver. I want REALISM, not sensationalism.
After all, driving a real car around at about 200km/h doesn't give me a noisy steering feel, neither should a racing simulation do. If it did, i probably wouldn't go that fast, anyway since i love living a little longer
.
I still think thati am more capable of steering more precise by using the mouse than i will ever be able when using the wheel. Undoubtadly though, the wheel is much more fun and has the advantage of way more precise pedal-input in the sence of acceleration and braking.
An other issue is that current FF is, AFAIK, implemented into the direct-input part of Microsoft's DirectX-Toolkit. And thus the wheel you put into your usb-connector won't be much of a difference concerning the LAG some of you seem to experience.
The other thing is that when using the wheel (i drive with in-game around 60-65% ffb, with no added spring-stuff in the driver whatsoever, just the regular ffb set to 100%) and going a straight line fast with the roadcars (e.g. the straight on as-nat-rev) i notice that the overall control in steering is put off somewhat by the fact that the ff-motor inside the wheel doesn't match the input-resolution and thus making me and the car "shiver" a little. When using mouse it "feels" much more like the real thing since the input rsolution is pretty good and won't be affected by any ffb-related drawbacks.
However i haven't tried another wheel, at least if i don't count the short episode of using my now-broken thrustmaster enzo( the one i started wheel-driving with) that didn't last for more than 2 months or so. Funny thing is, i think that i remember using the enzo-wheel was much less noisy ffb-wise. Ok, the steering-input was less precise on that wheel BUT less affected by the ffb-motor since it didn't provide such a stiff amount self-inducted friction.
Overall i think that, no matter how good the wheel is, the ffb is most likely never to be just right in the sense of LAG. But i for one didn't experience any real LAG up to now. If there is something like this that one thinks to "feel" i think it has another background.
I really hope that the G25(with two ffb-motors) in October will at least reduce the friction of the wheel when turning. And i hope that thus the precision felt when driving will be upped compared to the black momo. And please, no cluttering with ffb-effects in the driver. I want REALISM, not sensationalism.
After all, driving a real car around at about 200km/h doesn't give me a noisy steering feel, neither should a racing simulation do. If it did, i probably wouldn't go that fast, anyway since i love living a little longer
.
Last edited by DrBen, .
much the same experience with bf1
That thing is just out of this world.
it is so blastingly fast, noone on public servers remembers to "bahve" well!
They all have more of a hand full with the task of not spinning/crashing/ under- or overbraking that beast.
But on the other hand it fits most of the current tracks, which are in fact mostly high-speed tracks with over all very broad tarmac and only slight corners, except let's say some fern bay tracks and maybe some out of south city.
Why i'm saying this? Well the most popular track is doomed to be Aston national. Most racers race this track in one of the bigger GTRs. And the bf1 is only the logiacal top-end addition to all those speed-freaks. BUT then again, for alle those it is much more of a handfull, cause all of the sudden even those high-speed tracks seem to get "narrower" when driven on with the bf1.
i've purchased my license only shortly after S2 came out. The car i was mostly awaiting: FZ50 and RAC. The car i now like the most? FZ50 -- and then the other roadgoing cars and then the big GTRs, small GTRs and at the long last the single-seaters. 'Cause the road cars are much more fun
. I feel like a small boy trying to really master a car, not like a dumm doll, that someone pushed into a Single-seater cockpit with slicks that's way above ones skill-level.
illepall
Maybe, with time going by i will develop a more intimate feel for the bf1. But for now i think of it more like a "nice to have" feature for some laps inbetween.
I think it's best value will be that it's going to bring LFS into the news. Intel is doing it's "racing tour" promotion with it and that might get a lot of people hooked onto LFS, that previously idin't even own a games-capable computer AND/OR just played some arcarde racer on a games-console.
it is so blastingly fast, noone on public servers remembers to "bahve" well!
They all have more of a hand full with the task of not spinning/crashing/ under- or overbraking that beast.
But on the other hand it fits most of the current tracks, which are in fact mostly high-speed tracks with over all very broad tarmac and only slight corners, except let's say some fern bay tracks and maybe some out of south city.
Why i'm saying this? Well the most popular track is doomed to be Aston national. Most racers race this track in one of the bigger GTRs. And the bf1 is only the logiacal top-end addition to all those speed-freaks. BUT then again, for alle those it is much more of a handfull, cause all of the sudden even those high-speed tracks seem to get "narrower" when driven on with the bf1.
i've purchased my license only shortly after S2 came out. The car i was mostly awaiting: FZ50 and RAC. The car i now like the most? FZ50 -- and then the other roadgoing cars and then the big GTRs, small GTRs and at the long last the single-seaters. 'Cause the road cars are much more fun
. I feel like a small boy trying to really master a car, not like a dumm doll, that someone pushed into a Single-seater cockpit with slicks that's way above ones skill-level.illepallMaybe, with time going by i will develop a more intimate feel for the bf1. But for now i think of it more like a "nice to have" feature for some laps inbetween.
I think it's best value will be that it's going to bring LFS into the news. Intel is doing it's "racing tour" promotion with it and that might get a lot of people hooked onto LFS, that previously idin't even own a games-capable computer AND/OR just played some arcarde racer on a games-console.
Last edited by DrBen, .
I really like the idea of bringing lfs into such media
and i am as well a big fan of the topgear program.
I like the fact that the moderators tend to name the pros and cons of the stuff they talk about just as like as if they were talking to their biggest mate!
So (almost) no manufacturer will get "faked PR" which makes it all very interesting to look at.
Also i see the fact that Jeremy, as the leading guy of the team, is heavily interested in the "joy and fun of motoring" (as he would probably say himself) That's a reason why we really should set something up with those guys.
But i think that probably we should consider better talking to all three of them, plus the stig, maybe setting up a LAN race, let's say, battling the best 10 british lfs drivers AND/OR having them race against some studio guests in realtime. James and Hammond once were sent to that scene with the teenage girl racing real-life remote-cars inside some kind of "mud-hole" -- and got lapped.
So why not just asking them out for a ride?
Maybe when S2 is in it's final stage? That would give them and the community a little time to figure out the best way to present lfs on such a program
I like the fact that the moderators tend to name the pros and cons of the stuff they talk about just as like as if they were talking to their biggest mate!
So (almost) no manufacturer will get "faked PR" which makes it all very interesting to look at.
Also i see the fact that Jeremy, as the leading guy of the team, is heavily interested in the "joy and fun of motoring" (as he would probably say himself) That's a reason why we really should set something up with those guys.
But i think that probably we should consider better talking to all three of them, plus the stig, maybe setting up a LAN race, let's say, battling the best 10 british lfs drivers AND/OR having them race against some studio guests in realtime. James and Hammond once were sent to that scene with the teenage girl racing real-life remote-cars inside some kind of "mud-hole" -- and got lapped.
So why not just asking them out for a ride?
Maybe when S2 is in it's final stage? That would give them and the community a little time to figure out the best way to present lfs on such a program
Last edited by DrBen, .
@ P5YcHoM4n and all others, interested
<warning! | long monologue>
I actually didn't want to deny the existance of something like that. But, a decidedly placed "NO!" - Such solutions are NOT quiet. If you considere a standard-office pc quiet i suggest you once wait till late at night, close all doors and windows, shut off aircon (if present) even shut off heating (if present) and your refirdgerator, anything that has moise-emmitting or moving parts on it. Well, if you live in a quiet place and do this, i bet you will get bored pretty soon, at what your standard-pc emmits in noise. Yes i have catched the "silence-virus" some time ago, that's why i spent some money and a good bunch of hours last year on making my oldie "shut up".
</long monologue>
However, the reason i've posted this is that i am really happy with the fact that lfs runs so great, even on (from today's point of view) low-range systems). This makes it stand out of the crowd. I feel like one out of many good racers. Not like an outsider, staring at ppl who enjoy a racing game that i cannot personaly compete in, just because of the better gear they have since they invested probably the same $amountOFmoney a glance in time later than me.
AND i still can enjoy the silence 'cause my system doesn't need the excessive amount of noise/cooling power what suggested game-pc's would require for just being capable of e.g. starting some arcarde racer like nfs:mw .
Well, if you use Windows just for playing lfs or RBR, like i do, you don't personally need Vista. And again, if the DEVs engage into the turnaround before it's too late and deny the implementation of the S3 Version relying on DirectX 10 (which will be available in binary only -as always-, and only for Vista AFAIK) then nobody in this community will have that problem. Not to forget that there are other systems like Macs or even the various Unix-like ystems as an alternative to that. LFS is still independant. The devs should considure making their work accessable on all popular X86 platforms as it would clearly benefit the growth of the lfs userbase. (There are a lot of people that would love playing lfs on linux, but nowerdays ffb is impossible through WINE and overall WINE is no clean solution, since it costs performance, naturally does not always work to the full extend and isn't easy to set up)
me too, me too but my next PC upgrade will not only be quiet but completely inaudable , dead-silent. That's for sure. Take a look at www.silentpcreview.com or, if you are a german-speaker, www.silenthardware.de/forum That's where people talk about this topic AND lot's of those (not all, of course) are even gamers themselves. There is simply no need to buy loud and hot stuff if you don't want to win a benchmark! Plus if you select yourself the right stuff you controll the development with your market force (your money). -Not that i would have to tell you, of course, some other forum readers might happen to actually read this though, so i pointed this out in detail
It's really the same with lfs. I instantly fell in love with it's accurate physics model, even the graphics are nice to look at, in my opinion. So about a year ago, i finally got licensed and joined a team --> no more time for the any other game, now! and happy ever after? -- Sure! Plus every one of us makes the DEVs go on with their life which is, ATM, live for speed!
nice one! You're a good role-model, mate
@ threadstarter: sorry for bringing some slight OT'iness into this thread !
LFS: It's independant, It's so f****n' realistic, it's loads of fun:
it simply rules!
<warning! | long monologue>
I actually didn't want to deny the existance of something like that. But, a decidedly placed "NO!" - Such solutions are NOT quiet. If you considere a standard-office pc quiet i suggest you once wait till late at night, close all doors and windows, shut off aircon (if present) even shut off heating (if present) and your refirdgerator, anything that has moise-emmitting or moving parts on it. Well, if you live in a quiet place and do this, i bet you will get bored pretty soon, at what your standard-pc emmits in noise. Yes i have catched the "silence-virus" some time ago, that's why i spent some money and a good bunch of hours last year on making my oldie "shut up".
</long monologue>
However, the reason i've posted this is that i am really happy with the fact that lfs runs so great, even on (from today's point of view) low-range systems). This makes it stand out of the crowd. I feel like one out of many good racers. Not like an outsider, staring at ppl who enjoy a racing game that i cannot personaly compete in, just because of the better gear they have since they invested probably the same $amountOFmoney a glance in time later than me.
AND i still can enjoy the silence 'cause my system doesn't need the excessive amount of noise/cooling power what suggested game-pc's would require for just being capable of e.g. starting some arcarde racer like nfs:mw .
Well, if you use Windows just for playing lfs or RBR, like i do, you don't personally need Vista. And again, if the DEVs engage into the turnaround before it's too late and deny the implementation of the S3 Version relying on DirectX 10 (which will be available in binary only -as always-, and only for Vista AFAIK) then nobody in this community will have that problem. Not to forget that there are other systems like Macs or even the various Unix-like ystems as an alternative to that. LFS is still independant. The devs should considure making their work accessable on all popular X86 platforms as it would clearly benefit the growth of the lfs userbase. (There are a lot of people that would love playing lfs on linux, but nowerdays ffb is impossible through WINE and overall WINE is no clean solution, since it costs performance, naturally does not always work to the full extend and isn't easy to set up)
me too, me too but my next PC upgrade will not only be quiet but completely inaudable , dead-silent. That's for sure. Take a look at www.silentpcreview.com or, if you are a german-speaker, www.silenthardware.de/forum That's where people talk about this topic AND lot's of those (not all, of course) are even gamers themselves. There is simply no need to buy loud and hot stuff if you don't want to win a benchmark! Plus if you select yourself the right stuff you controll the development with your market force (your money). -Not that i would have to tell you, of course, some other forum readers might happen to actually read this though, so i pointed this out in detail
It's really the same with lfs. I instantly fell in love with it's accurate physics model, even the graphics are nice to look at, in my opinion. So about a year ago, i finally got licensed and joined a team --> no more time for the any other game, now! and happy ever after? -- Sure! Plus every one of us makes the DEVs go on with their life which is, ATM, live for speed!
nice one! You're a good role-model, mate
@ threadstarter: sorry for bringing some slight OT'iness into this thread !
LFS: It's independant, It's so f****n' realistic, it's loads of fun:
it simply rules!
Last edited by DrBen, .
you don't know how much i agree with what you just said!
No mate! You're dead right! And i'd like to add that i cannot wait until the devs reimplement the graphics engine to work on more platforms than MS-Windows since that would make me save lots and lots of disk space!
But therefor one would need to convince the makers of ffb-wheels to agree on an open-spec, mulit-platform standard in ffb dev-toolkit. Without that, any advancement of lfs in that direction would be, of course, rendered useless.
I want lfs in Debian/non-free!
EDIT
@ ALL
You all nailed the essence of lfs in this thread!
I also would like to add:
i would rather spend my little money on improved verions of lfs than having to buy myself new gear, worth hundreds of euros, every year, just to find that better graphics don't give me the value i anticipated
First of all, i am interested in a quiet PC, since i spend a lot of time working with it, non-lfs related stuff for my studies and so on...
BUT the game industry wants to drive me into buying new gear, especially graphics-wise, since their new games will look like crap on a box more than say 1-1/2 years of age. PLUS all that high-end GPUs demand more and more power, getting hotter still and thus uncoolable if you want your PC quiet. That is frustrating, since i like Computers and PC-Games a lot. But i just cannot afford an air-conditioning system for my PC, since
1. something like that does not really exist
2. would be more expensive than the whole box in parts
3. is doomed to driving me nuts by making a tremendous amount of noise!
AND no, i have neither the time, nor money or good-will to all-too-many experiments with new and expensive gear.
Currently i think a lot of upgrading to a (half-new) box since my current one is over 4 years old, now - and thus i begin to "fear" future updates to the game. Currently in online-gaming i temporarily get to as low as 15-20 fps with no AA or AF turned on whatsoever. But think about this:
Presumably, lfs is this popular since it does not require people to spend a fortune on using it! -- I also started off with mouse-steer and still use it every once-in-a-while
To give one more thought about it, i really anticipate the launch of that new G25 Wheel, which will - let's name it - cost me a small fortune all by itself, if i can get ahold of one later this year.
Last edited by DrBen, .
after not getting sufficient feedback from university net...
just did what the op did before and initiated a traceroute to the machine what i think is the masterserver.
It goes like this...
this is where i {ctrl-c}'ed the traceroute
and yes, i am usually a GNU/Linux user
But i sure am not a network expert so i cannot extract any meaning from the traceroute output.
Could you perhaps take a look at it, please?
so long
tuxator
It goes like this...
this is where i {ctrl-c}'ed the traceroute
and yes, i am usually a GNU/Linux user
But i sure am not a network expert so i cannot extract any meaning from the traceroute output.
Could you perhaps take a look at it, please?
so long
tuxator
thanks for your suggestions
Thank you all // Danke noch mal für Eure Auskünfte
well, the situation is slightly complicated, since i have acces over the university network. And getting DSL only for LFS is no real justification i guess, to pay over 25 Euros more per month, just for internet access. I now pay about 7,80 Euros/month for university network (~70k, unlimited usage and generally good ping ((~30ms))).
Thus i have asked for help in our internal forum, now i got the hint that this problem is network-centric
Thank's guys,
i will keep you up-to-date of what's happening
DrBen
---------------------
no i'm really not a doctor! My nick tells a different story
well, the situation is slightly complicated, since i have acces over the university network. And getting DSL only for LFS is no real justification i guess, to pay over 25 Euros more per month, just for internet access. I now pay about 7,80 Euros/month for university network (~70k, unlimited usage and generally good ping ((~30ms))).
Thus i have asked for help in our internal forum, now i got the hint that this problem is network-centric
Thank's guys,
i will keep you up-to-date of what's happening
DrBen
---------------------
no i'm really not a doctor! My nick tells a different story
have lag problems, too
alright:
as i already read in some thread i cannot remember anymore:
it came to me from one day to another -- or, lets say from one year to the other.
Last year in mid-december i installed patch q on both: my desktop and my notebook. it worked perfectly well at the time.
when i came back from christmas holidays and tried to connect to any server like the day before yesterday i now have that very weird problem:
i connect to a server (like our teamserver '*drt*racing 2' ) i cannot stay online for more than some laps or even just some seconds. This happens not only on our servers but on every server i tried the last couple of days.
The best result was being thrown off the server after at least finishing a 5 round race on as-nat,, when racing on one of our teamservers.
The green connection bar just rises, and rises, and *puff* i'm out of the race, off the server (any server, as explained above).
Question is, how can i trace back the problem??
I already tried a lot to rule out any influence my actual hardware could have on the gameplay. As noticed above, both of my boxes have exactly the same symptoms. What drives me mad is that at least my desktop has not had any changes, neither in soft- nor in hardware, since i left my place for the holidays. --and i usually don't do study-work when running the windows-install. Windows' only justification is for playing lfs
Maybe my net-connection is the weak part in the chain??
It wasn't till the day before yesterday, though.
Any suggestions?
as i already read in some thread i cannot remember anymore:
it came to me from one day to another -- or, lets say from one year to the other.
Last year in mid-december i installed patch q on both: my desktop and my notebook. it worked perfectly well at the time.
when i came back from christmas holidays and tried to connect to any server like the day before yesterday i now have that very weird problem:
i connect to a server (like our teamserver '*drt*racing 2' ) i cannot stay online for more than some laps or even just some seconds. This happens not only on our servers but on every server i tried the last couple of days.
The best result was being thrown off the server after at least finishing a 5 round race on as-nat,, when racing on one of our teamservers.
The green connection bar just rises, and rises, and *puff* i'm out of the race, off the server (any server, as explained above).
Question is, how can i trace back the problem??
I already tried a lot to rule out any influence my actual hardware could have on the gameplay. As noticed above, both of my boxes have exactly the same symptoms. What drives me mad is that at least my desktop has not had any changes, neither in soft- nor in hardware, since i left my place for the holidays. --and i usually don't do study-work when running the windows-install. Windows' only justification is for playing lfs
Maybe my net-connection is the weak part in the chain??
It wasn't till the day before yesterday, though.
Any suggestions?
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG