When trying to generate graphs for a replay I've got an error (see attachment).

The replay was generated from patch S2V (no test patch), Stats 1.49, Graph 1.19.

Any idea if it is possible to solve the problem?

Quote from Bob Smith :

Heh, that's funny, I was using my own "made up" code in GRC, but now I've switched to the same code as LFS runs, thanks to a helpful Scawen. So, they should match.

I had noticed it giving some funny results though but hadn't got around to chatting with Scawen again, letting him have some time away from LFS at xmas.

Just to bump this up... tyre stiffness has still quite a big difference between your calculated values and the output you can read from LFS itself.

I found a bug in the latest version (not present in previous release):

- live settings like throttle, brake or lateral acceleration doesn't seem to have any effect on springs deflections
- live setting default throttle is now 0% (used to be 75%)

Yep! Great work as always!

Is going to be a very useful tool.

Little bug: lateral acceleration unit is fixed at (m/s^2) and doesn't change if you change the setting in the preferences.

+1 great job!

Sorry to bump up this thread...

...but I'm trying to find help on a simple (e.g. for a programmer noob) league management system.

thnks

Really good work you are doing!! I'm really looking up to the finished product!

As a side note... I noticed that you give a Tyre Spring Stiffness that is calculated with some formula that, I guess, still comes from your GRC.
If you output data from inside the game, you can actually read the value used by the game and it's quite different from the ones that you are suggesting.
Most noticeably, it is not dependent that much on tyre pressure...

Yep, I agree...

Unfortunately now I'm not able to run a test on BL, but yesterday I was practicing my next race on FOX@SOLong and I run 22laps with R1

EDIT: Have you tried using R1 with lower camber (around 2.4front 2.0rear)? Sometimes also lowering (slightly) tire pressure will have better grip, thus less sliding and less heat buildup...

Last edited by flyby3d, Sun 12 Nov 2006, 10:59.

From my experience with the FOX, i'm rather surprised that you are looking to use R2.
I managed (like all the others in the race we deed last week) to complete 18 laps at AS Hist with R1, without problems.

You should be able to do it on BL easily.

Quote from Pablo.CZ :

Please dont waste time with upgrading minimap. Everytime I see minimap, I think "oh, another arcade looking game.." Instead of minimap, we need trafic lights in pit end etc. What is imo bad, I cant switch off hud (shift+f), because I dont know what lap and position I'm on. I like GTR2demo way, table and radio requests, no screen full of hud. I'd like less arcade components in LFS.


agreed

+1

Quote from ajp71 :

... whatever idiots may say GTR/GTL/GTR2/rFactor are basically the same with different values in a few text files

Quote from Scawen :

Something I've coded already but excluded from the recent test patches, because it's incompatible...

In the next incompatible version there will be two options :

- no resets allowed
- resets allowed

No resets will be the default option. Resets will get you out of the dirt and fix your car like in single player. Resets will be regarded as an "arcade" feature, more for first timers who don't yet know how to stay on the track (for example : in an arcade).

I'm wondering about the jump starts as well, if maybe the current start system should be lumped together with "resets allowed" into a single option known as "arcade mode".

If it was like that then Arcade Mode would be like the current LFS but with damage repair on reset plus removal from the gravel traps. Default Mode would disallow resets and allow jump starts.

But maybe those should be two different options - no big deal anyway, just thought I'd mention it, seeing this conversation about resets. It's not very realistic.

I hope that the "no reset" option includes a "no shift+s" (autopit from everywhere) option

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

...
and 2) when they genuinly do an unpredictable thing like braking rediculously early.
...

I do agree with our general idea, but i think this point is where, sometimes, more attention is needed.

When i race with someone i know (or when i race in a League) i can follow VERY close and i'd rarely (if never) crash into someone braking unpredictably early...
...but if i'm in a public server and i find myself behind someone i've never seen racing before, i'll take my time (and space from) to see how he/she drives.
Public server have pilots of all experieces and abilities.
It's simply too dangerous for both to assume that the one i'm following (or overtaking) will take the correct and fastet line or brake at the "normal" braking points...

my 2c

Quote from AndroidXP :

I made a custom layout where I just tested the accelleration in first gear.
With TC at 8% my fastest time was something like 2.85, without I never got below 2.93, IIRC.

I think the difference is far too small to warrant not going pedal-to-the-metal in cars where the stability isn't an issue to begin with.

I'd say that it's about 2.15m difference at 40m for a time differece like the one you measured.
Not a small difference actually...
That's only from the tyres.
IRL you'll have a reaction time to account for...
In LFS the start is "automatic" and all the pilots start with the same reaction time (when "flooring" is 0 actually), whereas IRL there can be differences in the order of 0.05-0.1sec between two pilots. (another 2-3 meters?)
Then you have to consider the even bigger differences in tyre type/condition, transmission, gear ratio, engine etc...
In LFS all the cars are identical and "perfect"
All this toghether will make a much bigger difference at start (car lenghts maybe?) IRL than you can see in LFS.

All IMHO

There is another advantage for people not using FFB... damage! Try to drive a damaged suspension with or without FFB and you'll see.

p.s. also riding over curbs (FE Green anyone?) is easier if you don't have to "fight" the wheel...

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=211790

Good idea!

Quote :

Kunos

PHYSICS

099 had 2 main flaws on the chassis physic: one was in the anti-roll bars code, and it is easy to exploit hitting a curb hard; this will throw the car into a roll on itself. The second flaw was in the reaction torques at the differential generating a couple on the body moving too much weight back and forward as function of engine torque.

The entire software structure was changed and what was a modular software solution in netKar 099 is now a monolithic structure driven by scripts and databases. In nK099 there was a main simulation program (nks.exe) that connected to a client module for multiplayer (nkClient.dll) and cars' modules (f3000.dll, mini.dll ecc..). In netKar PRO everything is easier and held into the nks.exe file.

The change was made to support what we call the nK|dK (netKar Development Kit), which will allow the community to create additional cars for the simulator and it was the main element that got me busy during this year.

One important element with the creation of nK|dK is the possibility to deeply analyze the car's behaviour in an engineering-like environment and compare it with theorical and experimental data from books and other sources. In netKar PRO nothing is "cheated" and you can check the formulas from your car dynamics book with the simulator and find the same results, the manual for the future nK|dK will be most enlighting about this matter.

DRIVETRAIN
The drivetrain was also rewritten at the beginning of the netKar PRO adventure. The main aim for the new code was to support 4WD cars with 3 differential connected.

TIRES
The main element of any simulation was also the subject of a total rewrite. The model is now a Pacejka 96 full model with integrations for temperature and pressure changes plus some integration for dynamic behaviour for the quick spinning on the Y axis of the tire. (quick steer).
What I really love about this Pacejika's model is the incredible control it gives on the relationship between longitudinal and lateral forces plus the ability to reproduce a tire with 3 different "zones": a linear zone, a sliding zone, and a frictional zone once the tire lost the grip. I find the linear zone often missing generating a tire that is in "sliding" mode all the time.. giving a sort of "floating" feel to it. In netKar PRO, you get a clear linear zone that gives the tires an incredible amount of "bite".. you really need to push the car to get into the "sliding" mode of the tire and makes driving fast with netKar PRO a very different experience where you literally throw the car into a corner at speeds that most of the time you won't believe and then you'll handle her on the edge of the limit. Driving is more "physical", after 20 laps with the powerful stiff cars you really feel your head shaking.
I turned off the automatic surface smoothing featured in nK099, and this makes the ride really scary on the stiff lower cars and you'll often find yourself bottoming around shaking like crazy. The fact of driving directly on the triangles of the track also gives meaning to the idea of "fast bump and rebound" settings.. mostly unusued before, you'll need these badly to set up the attitude of the car on bumps. I was able to turn off the smoothing because the new tire model is so good to handle the contact/no contact situations, much better than the old one. As you can tell, I am quite happy and excited by the results.

Just some more info about the upcoming NKPro directly from Kunos...(in english)
http://www.drivingitalia.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=24201

Another link to the unofficial FAQ (italian... sorry!)
http://www.drivingitalia.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=24390

Quote from Flotch :

For the FZR, it is the fastest and probably the easiest to drive, but in endurance ?? , the rear tires are quickly destroyed after one or two laps for me, so I do not know if the FZR's fan use R2 or not to do serious race.

I have to disagre...

In the league we are running now (GTR class) almost everyone is using FZR and the races are between 200 and 300 km each.
I've been running on Blackwood r2 front and rear... 24-25 laps with laptimes between 1:10.5x at beginning to 1:08.8x at the end.

Similar results on ASNational, FEBlack and (with some more trouble) WE1.

Quote from smith :

Probably it's possible, but I don't consider it as some useful feauture. Main program's aim is to analyse multiplayer (more than one player) races to compare racers perfomance, and there is not much of interest in hotlap or single player actions for me in terms of extracted statistical data...

I was actually thinking about multiplayer replay of qualifing events, such as in a league, to output a report in a similar fashion of what you get for the race itself

Any chance to make Stats! compatible also with qualify and practice replays?
It should basically log all laps completed by anyone that connects and than output the stats regarding "best lap", "best splits", "best possible lap" and "average lap"... in a format similar to the one already used for races

Another interesting feature would be the possibility to add some custom fields to the output of the report without having to add them manually.
It might be very useful for uses in leagues to make automated reports and add info like points gained and other league-specific infos

Thanks for your work! Really good job!

Sorry mate! thanks for helping out! now it works... me idiot

Quote from Bob Smith :

Have you converted stiffness into N/m from kN/m (i.e. multiplied by 1000)? Other than that check for bracketing errors.

Yes I did... but it is not the problem... if you remove the PI from the equation you get 2.11 (and if you look at the formula used in the Suspension Analyser it is without PI)

I'm very confused...

Quote from Bob Smith :

OK going with XF GTi hard track setup:

...

frequency = 0.5 / ( PI * ( mass on spring / stiffness ) ^ 0.5 ) = 2.11 Hz

...

I'm sorry, but I tried to reproduce this formula on excel and the final result is everytime 0.0668 ... not 2.11

What i'm doing wrong?

Quote from GP4Flo :

The LFS Wiki has it's own address now: www.lfswiki.net