Hmm.. Why not a car that is a GT Coupe, Supercar and Track Day machine all in one??
What else but a.....
http://www.edmunds.com/media/r ... che.911.carrera.s.340.jpg
What else but a.....
http://www.edmunds.com/media/r ... che.911.carrera.s.340.jpg
I think you're missing the point of a lot of the posts and making unjustafiable character assesments on the part of the posters.
I haven't seen anyone state that they would like limited set ups because they "just can't be bothered with it".
People keep going on about how you can buy after market parts. Yes that's true, but what percentage of the population actually do? and how realistic is it to work on the assumption that those parts should be available on all cars?? where do you draw the line? some of the adjustments that are available after market are either bespoke or very expensive and therefore not truely available in a "mass market" sense. The vast majority of sensibly priced after market parts have very limited adjustability. So even "race" spec suspsension systems available on the market do not have such things as infinitely adjustable rebound/compression damping, or ride height or spring settings. Generally speaking you go out and buy a config and then your stuck with it, (baring limited damping and ride height adjustments on the most expensive coil overs).
All people are really expressing is that LFS should be made more realistic with regards to the adjustability available on the various cars in the sim. With adjustability being dependant on the car type and the level likely to be found on a typical real car of the same type. If the tin tops in LFS are meant to be "tuned" versions of road cars then obviously they should have the kind of adjustability that would be available on mass market after market parts. In reality this essentially just means a few after market suspension options as only the extremely dedicated modder will go as far as clutch changes let alone gearbox changes !
IMO the Tin Tops should potentially fit in to three categories, depending on the actual car:
Stock - Little or no adjustability - essentially a real (or based on real) road going version of a car.
Track Day - Adjustability limited to choices of mass produced after market suspension/brake/road tyre alternatives.
WRC/Touring Car/GT - Full cup version of the car with more power, less weight, race tyres/brakes/suspension/spoilers/splitters with all the realistic level of adjustability that comes with such a car.
Single Seaters of course would have the kind of adjustments available on the typical race series type they are emulating.
Why are you assuming the brakes/tyres are cold?
OMG.. sorry but that's so funny..
Loved the bit about turning around getting ready to smack the little guy only to see the two huge body guards. You really should rework that story though in to how you nearly got picked up by the lead singer of Iron Maiden ! 
They are metal. It's just the the new kids like to think they are producing something new so continually insist on re-inventing the genre and that includes renaming the sub genre that older bands belong to, (something that really gets on my damn nerves :really
.There is absolutely no doubt that historically Iron Maiden are a Heavy Metal band. In fact they were practically the first band to be called a Metal band. Just because the genre has moved on and gotten a lot more "heavy" doesn't entitle people to recategorise original Metal bands as mere heavy rock. AC/DC are heavy rock, not Iron Maiden.
ps - how on earth did you manage to get punched by Bruce?? by all accounts he's a really nice guy
So where do I get the badge??
No not all RAP and Hip-Hop is rubbish. Just very little of it is much good IMO. The earlier stuff (from the early 80's) was far better than the modern stuff. At least back in those days it was more original and actually there were quite a few real musicians involved in producing it.
Ultimately though for me the issue is the very raison d'etre of rap and hip hop ie the vocals. It's not singing, isn't intended to be and so never will be. I just can't get around to calling anything that has no melody, (even in the vocals), music, and that's comming from a drummer !
RnB is the only other genre of music that I just can't see any value in.
Other than that I can find good music in a very broad spectrum of music:
Rock, Blues, R&B, Metal (of all sorts), Jazz, Clasical, Samba, Salsa, (and various other Latin styles), Jazz Funk, Funk, Soul, Reggae, Calypso, Ska, Flamenco, Fado, HighLife and others.
Edited to add:
As for RAP being poetry or having it's roots in poetry. Well I guess that opinion would very much depend on your definition of poetry. I've heard a lot of RAP over the years, (I'm old enough to have been around when it started), and there is one thing I can say for sure. If RAP is poetry, it sure isn't Shakespeare, Cummings, Auden, Tennyson or Poe.
No not all RAP and Hip-Hop is rubbish. Just very little of it is much good IMO. The earlier stuff (from the early 80's) was far better than the modern stuff. At least back in those days it was more original and actually there were quite a few real musicians involved in producing it.
Ultimately though for me the issue is the very raison d'etre of rap and hip hop ie the vocals. It's not singing, isn't intended to be and so never will be. I just can't get around to calling anything that has no melody, (even in the vocals), music, and that's comming from a drummer !
RnB is the only other genre of music that I just can't see any value in.
Other than that I can find good music in a very broad spectrum of music:
Rock, Blues, R&B, Metal (of all sorts), Jazz, Clasical, Samba, Salsa, (and various other Latin styles), Jazz Funk, Funk, Soul, Reggae, Calypso, Ska, Flamenco, Fado, HighLife and others.
Edited to add:
As for RAP being poetry or having it's roots in poetry. Well I guess that opinion would very much depend on your definition of poetry. I've heard a lot of RAP over the years, (I'm old enough to have been around when it started), and there is one thing I can say for sure. If RAP is poetry, it sure isn't Shakespeare, Cummings, Auden, Tennyson or Poe.
Last edited by gezmoor, .
Well considering that the XFG is as fast or very close to the XRG on nearly every LFS circuit despite giving away 10bhp I'd put my money on the XFG.
But that's irrelevant anyway as LFS isn't actually accurate enough to be used as conclusive proof.
As I stated, I'm perfectly aware of the technical issues of FWD, I'm just stating that in modern cars it's not nearly as much of a handicap as it was back in the 80's or 90's even (back in the days put a 150bhp engine in a FWD car and it would track all over the place, these days it's perfectly possible to have 240bhp or more and have no problems). Just because a car is RWD it is NOT guarenteed to perform better than a FWD car in the real world. Every car design principle has it's advantages and disadvantages, how an individual car will perform is down to how those pro's and con's have been addressed and to a large extent how much money was put in to the design and development.
The other way to look at it is that you only need the oversteer of a RWD car because you went in too deep/hard and can't make the corner without sliding the rear. In other words RWDs are good for those who can't really get corner entry right in the first place
Apart from torque steer, I don't see any real inherent issues with FWD cars. There is nothing inherent in RWD that actually makes such a car better handling or faster around a track, (all other things being equal), and they're only "more fun" if you get a kick out of hanging the tail out, (which is an inherently slow way to drive anyway).
oh yeah? what's a "proper" race car?
If it doesn't excite you, don't drive it. Simple really.
Relative to what??
It's a road car, what do you expect it to weigh? It's actually completely average for a hatchback type car.
Anyway, people put too much stock on absolute weight. I recall a video of a track comparison between a 350Z, M3, S2000 and Boxter and the two fastest cars (over several laps) were the 350Z and M3 both of which outweigh the S2000 and Boxter by over 200kg. The only one of the cars to suffer any real issues was the M3 which basically just had too much power and didn't corner all that well compared to the others, (especially the S2000 which was all over it in the corners).
In a word. Yes.
LFS is mean't to be a driving simulator. IF the car is supposed to be a road car it should come with a fixed road car set up. The fact that the car is fictional is irrelevant in my mind.
Of course the "race" versions should have adjustable settings, but even then only such things as would be readily adjustable on a car with a race suspension system and to the same levels of adjustability.
IMO none of the cars in LFS should have what is effectively infinite adjustability in any of the set up options.
Then the only decision that needs to be made when a new tin top car is introduced is whether it's a road car or a race going version of a road car.
LFS is mean't to be a driving simulator. IF the car is supposed to be a road car it should come with a fixed road car set up. The fact that the car is fictional is irrelevant in my mind.
Of course the "race" versions should have adjustable settings, but even then only such things as would be readily adjustable on a car with a race suspension system and to the same levels of adjustability.
IMO none of the cars in LFS should have what is effectively infinite adjustability in any of the set up options.
Then the only decision that needs to be made when a new tin top car is introduced is whether it's a road car or a race going version of a road car.
I despair of some of the people around here really I do. 
It seems to me all a lot of people want is a car that drives like they want it to, and the name/bodyshell is the only thing that is different. People asking for the Scirocco to be oversteering in nature for example. I just don't get it. Which part of this is a simulator don't you lot get??? It'll handle like it's supposed to, not how YOU want it too !! That's what a simulator is all about !!
Scawen,
Thank you for giving us the heads up. I for one would much rather that the car was right and the release was bug free. I'm also extremely pleased that an extra effort is going in to making the Scirocco as realistic as possible by taking away all the setup options that would effectively make it handle in a way that just wouldn't be possible in the real thing.
It seems to me all a lot of people want is a car that drives like they want it to, and the name/bodyshell is the only thing that is different. People asking for the Scirocco to be oversteering in nature for example. I just don't get it. Which part of this is a simulator don't you lot get??? It'll handle like it's supposed to, not how YOU want it too !! That's what a simulator is all about !!
Scawen,
Thank you for giving us the heads up. I for one would much rather that the car was right and the release was bug free. I'm also extremely pleased that an extra effort is going in to making the Scirocco as realistic as possible by taking away all the setup options that would effectively make it handle in a way that just wouldn't be possible in the real thing.
Looks to me that those starting in the outside position have an advantage.
Race of Champions
Anyone see it?
What do people think of the whole concept/format?
What do people think of the whole concept/format?
What would you rather?
a) A cheaper race series that doesn't fit in with your personal opinion about what constitutes "exciting" racing.
or
b) No race series at all?
Motor racing doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's part of the world we live in. Unless you haven't got out of bed and opened your curtains for the last 6 months I can't believe anyone really thinks that what's happening in motorsport is of any consequence what-so-ever when thousands of average people with no savings to their name are loosing their jobs and potentially their homes too.
So to put it bluntly I couldn't care less about WRC or F1 rule changes brought about by the current economic crisis.
a) A cheaper race series that doesn't fit in with your personal opinion about what constitutes "exciting" racing.
or
b) No race series at all?
Motor racing doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's part of the world we live in. Unless you haven't got out of bed and opened your curtains for the last 6 months I can't believe anyone really thinks that what's happening in motorsport is of any consequence what-so-ever when thousands of average people with no savings to their name are loosing their jobs and potentially their homes too.
So to put it bluntly I couldn't care less about WRC or F1 rule changes brought about by the current economic crisis.
Definitely. More cars to drive and more tracks but more importantly (IMO) access to a far better quality of clean races on licenced servers.
Exactly. It's practically unheard of for suspension units to be infinitely adjustable. At least for cars anyway. It's relatively common for production sports bikes to have continuosly adjustable rebound/compression damping. But even they have limited preload/ride height options.
I think ultimately LFS is going to have to move towards suspension options, (rather than infinitely adjustable everything), much as it does now for tyres.
For example you pick a damper, (eg koni etc) and your spring, (eg eibach etc). The units you pick will have set options such as preset no of rebound/compression damping values; fixed spring-rate & length etc
Then it's up to the user to find the combo that works best for the car concerned, the circuit and their driving style etc.
That's what I'd like to see anyway.
Yes I am fully aware of that. However the Scirocco in LFS is supposed to be a stock production car. As stock none of these things would be options.
Anyway all of your cheap suspension options will be pretty unadjustable, just have different settings from the OEM units. You only start getting the option of adjustable settings on suspension with more expensive coil-over options, (ususally starting from around £6-700 for the likes of Koni units and going well over £1000 for well spec'd Bilstein etc)
As I said, if there was a GT version of the Scirocco in LFS then it would make sense to have adjustable suspention settings as such a car would almost certainly be fitted with fully adjustable "race" suspension.
PS - camber/toe settings are often adjustable at the front on cars such as the Scirocco but very often they are fixed at the back. The only way to adjust them is to fit camber shims.
My opinion exactly. WiMo is just too complex, it's Microsoft trying to push the market in the direction of software dev that suits them so they can make a mint in a market where they had next to no share previously.
Personally I'm dreading the day when I am forced in to buying a device with a big fat bloated complex OS on it, (with all the associated instability/speed issues), in order just to be able to contact people when I'm out and about.
That would be their problem. The point of this sim is to recreate realistic driving under race conditions. That in itself should be all the fun people need, if it isn't then I would respectfully suggest they should be looking elsewhere for their "fun".
Best leave that for a different thread really.
Maybe I should have said first "production road car". I don't know much about the RaceAbout apart from the fact it's from a small speciallist manufacturer but the other cars you mention are all "race" cars and so a considerable amount of flexibility in the set up of gearing, camber, damping, springing etc is to be expected. A production road car comes with fixed settings. There is no option to change any of these things on my SEAT Leon for example. If there were a Touring Car version of the Scirroco included in the game then that would be different. I would expect more flexibility of set up, but in a road car I expect next to none.
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