Quote :

A mod can just delete this thread.

But being the friendly mods, they merged the two of them together here, once again thanks.

Last edited by JeffR, Tue 5 Sep 2006, 14:20.

Edit update: the text in this post was a duplicate of the original post.

A moderator moved this thread to the appropriate place. Thanks for the help here.

Last edited by JeffR, Tue 5 Sep 2006, 14:19.

Oops, sorry, was looking for videos, not movies, my old eyes missed that sub-forum. Will repost.

Quote :

cant wait for the Monza 10K track

I'm waiting for Jim Pearson to complete his full Isle of Mann TT track (37.75 miles long) for GPL. Lap times will be somewhere between 15 to 20 minutes (the real top motorcycles are just under 18 minutes. The 1967 F1 cars have more grip but less power to weight ratio).

Dual view, top view is in car, bottom view is chase.

F1 at Blackwood by MacEST - lfsblf1.wmv

FZ50 GTR at South City Long by arrechee - lfsslzg.wmv

More racing game videos here:

racing game videos - rgv.htm

This thread is still going? Ok, some comments and updates:

Arcade = USA, Sim = Europe. In the Need For Speed series, there are (were, NFS4, NFS5, and now NFS7 and NFS8 servers are shut down) significantly more European players online than USA players. I've read that the NFS series outsells all other PC based racing games. Then again, when they bundle 4 games in a collection does it count as selling 4 games?, World of Need for Speed is 4 games, Need For Speed Collection is 5 games (only at online stores now), both selling for $20 USA. I don't know about console sales in Europe, but I assume most are sold in USA.

LFS - tire physics very much improoved in S2 alpha versions T and later. The addition of a F1 car was really nice. The LFS crowd seems to be a selective group, as I get the impression that a lot of LFS players don't play other sims as much. The non-LFS players seem to play more of a variety of racing games.

Real tracks - Nordschleife and Spa are the top two on my list. Advantage for ISI / Papy sims here.

rFactor - rFactor was sort of a cheat, making a game that relied on mods being made for it. At least it now in include some real tracks and cars, including the BMW F1. The McLaren F1 mod is good, and some sim team versus team racing used this mod for a series of competitions.

Simbin - a lot of the simmers are always waiting for the next best thing, GTR mods. rFactor mods, GTLegends mods, and now GTR2 demo mods (there are track (including Nordschliefe) and car mods for the GTR2 demo already). Simbin includes some real race car drivers on it's staff, that's got to help a bit.

All ISI games - I wish they'd fix the replays so you can hear tire sounds. You make a great run, but when viewing, without any tire sounds, it could just be a car with real sticky tires just cruising around the track, you don't get any sense of how hard a player was pushing when viewing a replay.

Papyrus - Grand Prix Legends, and Nascar Racing 2003, a lot of mods and tracks. Several real NASCAR drivers play NR2003, and those drivers state that the physics are pretty good (especially the trucks). Really good replay system, along with movie making, lap analysis and lap compare utilities.

ISI night mode - a GPU hog, both rFactor and GTR2 demo slow quite a bit when night or night/rain are enabled. On high end systems, With the GTR2 demo, FPS is barely over 15 at the start of a race at the back of a grid of 19 cars.

Personally I like all of these games, and non sim games like the NFS Series (but I didn't like HP2 much), Toca RD2 and RD3, World Racing 1 and 2, and even Ford Racing 2.

I have made videos from many racing games, you can get links to view or download them here:

racing game videos htm

Last edited by JeffR, Tue 5 Sep 2006, 13:13.

Since I do some video editing, I have 4 SATA hard drives, paired up into stripe 0 volumes. Since the Intel 975 motherboard has two SATA controllers (up to 4 drives each), I have one pair on the Intel ICH7R controller and the other pair on the Silicon Image controller. There's a 5th IDE drive, which is used for boot and the temp directory. OS and software on one pair of SATA drives, swap file and capture on the other pair. All drives are Hitachi T7K250 250GB hard drives with minimum transfer rate over 30mega-bytes / second. With the striping, I'm averaging about 50mega-bytes / second (striping speeds up streaming rate by about 25% to 50%).

Still this pales in comparason to the new Seagate Cheetah 300GB 320 Scsi / Fibre Channel hard drives, which have a minimum transfer rate of 89 mega-bytes per second. But one or two of these drives and a host bus adapter cost more than my entire system.

Sample video (note - engine sound was turned down):

lfsblf1.wmv

Last edited by JeffR, Wed 9 Aug 2006, 21:18.

Any change the orignal poster meant to port LFS to X64?

Quote from riffman12 :

I was reading a car mag a little while ago and they did a short report on a Caterham CSR400 (Or R400, dont remember) with 2 V4 motorcycle engines bolted together to form an insanely high revving V8 (400 and something HP). The thing is nuts. For some reason i don't think something like this would be very controllable on a track...

That would be a CSR400. The R400 is part of a series of super lights. The CSR400 shoulcn't be an issue as long as it's geared tall enough.

There's a 380hp Radical SR8, which is a small race car. A so called "street legal" version ran a 6:55 at Nordschleife recently.

In the the case of the CSR 400, ir's more likely that they used the same method as the Radical SR8. two inline 4 cylinder heads bolted to a common lower end and crank. Using 2 V4's would make the engine two long, and the current crop of V4 motorcycles engines don't make as much power as the larger, high end 4 cylinder engines from Suzuki's Hayabusa (1.3 liter 175hp stock) or Kawasaki's ZX14 (1.35 liter, 185-190hp stock).

Since Champ cars are detuned CART cars, I think the F1 cars are good enough. The old CART cars were about the same as F1 cars, a bit heavier, but had 900 to 1000hp, except they ran smaller nose cones and wings for the high speed ovals, giving them incredible speeds, like 265mph at the ends of the straight at California speedway during qualification, and Paul Tracy recorded a trap speed of 257mph during a race at the Michigan 500.

The Champ car season is almost all road and street courses now. Just two mid sized ovals, eliminating the need for the smaller nose cones and wings, power is down to 775hp, with about 1 minute of 850hp with the push to pass feature. Indy Racing League is almost all ovals, but a lot slower than the old CART cars. IRL is starting to run some road courses now.

Quote from ajp71 :

Just to point it out again, the LX8 is flawed in any rigid body physics simulation because IRL it would have so much chassis flex it would be uncompetitive against the LX6.

The stock CSR 260 makes 260hp and has a very strong frame, so chassis flex isn't an issue with the real thing. It could issue for the SLR (super light version has a weaker frame), but not for the CSR. As mentioned, I know someone that is running a 242 hp 2.3 liter duratec in his SLR without issues, so the SLR could probably handle 260hp as well. My suggestion for the LX series is to get rid of the number of cylinders concept, make them all 4 bangers, and set the 3 different power values to 140hp, 200hp, 260hp, to match the current Caterham line.

Last edited by JeffR, Mon 31 Jul 2006, 21:21.

Quote from tristancliffe :

2x weight needs 2x power for same acceleration
2x drag needs 4x power for same top speed

2x drag is also 2x power, at least the way you stated it. 2x drag just equals 2x force to overcome at the same top speed, so just 2x power.

2x speed with same drag factor = 4x force times 2x speed = 8x power.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

2x the weight needs 4x the power

2x weight is 2x power. Acceleration = mass / force. So 2x mass (weight) requires 2x force for the same acceleration. Power = force times speed. For example horse power = force (lbs) times speed (mph) divided by 375 (conversion factor). Since power = force times speed, then 2x force translates into 2x power.

The CSR 260 runs the 1/4 mile in just under 12 seconds, at around 110-115mph. The Z06 runs the 1/4 mile in 11.7 seconds at around 125mph. The Z06 has a slight power to weight advantage over the CSR 260, put slicks on the Z06 and it will run the 1/4 mile in 11.3 seconds around 127mph. 3rd gear redlines at 125mph, so 1/4 speed doesn't vary much between runs, because you hold in 3rd or shift to 4th with not much distance left to go.

Lap times on racing tracks between the two cars (both running slicks) will be close, with the Z06 having a slight acceleration and speed advantage, the CSR 260 having a cornering advantage (since it's lighter, it can run softer compound slicks).

Last edited by JeffR, Mon 31 Jul 2006, 20:54.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Are those top speeds gear limited or governed? I didn't see anything about drag limiting the top speed.

It's due to the drag and gearing. The gearing is set more for peformance than top speed, even with the 6 speed tranny, 6th gear is not an overdrive gear. Maybe the CSR 260 could go 160mph if geared properly, but it might take a very long run, like 2 miles to get there, not pratical for a track oriented car. In the case of the Caterham, it's low weight tranlates into a good power to weight ratio even at 200hp, but it's drag factor isn't that much better than a standard car, so it ends up with a low power to drag ratio.

The 2006 Z06 Corvette has about the same power to weight ratio, with just about double the power and weight of the CSR 260, and is more aerodynamic. The Caterham is quicker to 60mph, mostly because of better launches with a more rearwards weight bias, but the Z06 is quicker to 100mph and beyond or from a 10mph rolling start. Top speed on the Z06 is 198mph, but it takes a long time and a lot of distance to get there. They needed a 3 mile runway to get the car to 190mph and be able to stop (probably took over 2 miles to get to 190mph): z06190.wmv. 4th gear is good for 160mph, and there are few tracks where a Z06 would have a long enough straight to go faster than 160mph, maybe the final straight of Nordschleife, where the Z06 got a 7:43 lap time.

Seems like BMW F1's are in 3 games now, LFS, rFactor and also Toca Race Driver 3 (in RD3's case, the the BMW Williams Team F1 cars).

Quote from kallelix :

Quote from jeffr :

The LX6 is weak at 190hp, however, the aerodynamics aren't quite right, allowing a top speed of 160mph, compared to the 200hp Caterham with a top speed of 140mph. Even the 260hp Caterham only has a top speed of 155mph.

Did you test this with factory gear settings?

It's in the official specs for the car from Caterham:

http://www.caterham.co.uk/showroom/index.htm

Quote :

Quote :

Caterham power

Starting at 105 bhp up to 260.

The only Caterham with 105hp, is the original design Lotus 7 replica, both its engine and frame are weaker than the other Caterhams. So the lowest Caterham (not Lotus 7) power is 120hp, and more of the 140hp versions are sold, so the popular range is 140hp to 260hp.

The LX6 is weak at 190hp, however, the aerodynamics aren't quite right, allowing a top speed of 160mph, compared to the 200hp Caterham with a top speed of 140mph. Even the 260hp Caterham only has a top speed of 155mph.

There is one option not listed at the web site, the super light with the 260hp, this is considered a custom order. I know a guy who has a super light with a Cosworth (USA) tuned 242hp version of the Ford 2.3 liter Duratec in his super light.

Quote :

what is double posting

Oh, nevermind, I get it now. Wow, I'm almost up to 200 posts, is there some type of reward for this?

Getting back on topic, what's up with the community is that we probably are bored. I look at Team Redline forums and a lot of them are bored waiting for the next new sim or add-on. A good McLaren F1 add-on was made for rFactor, they did a series of races, and now it's back to "what's next?". I think the newness of racing and simulation games (GPL was released back in 1998) has worn off, and "the thrill is gone".

Last edited by JeffR, Sun 30 Jul 2006, 08:23.

What is double posting?

This is what a 4 banger should sound like: cata.wmv. From my now sold Caterham SV, back when it was making about 225hp with redline of 7000 rpm. With the final mods, redline was moved up to 8000 rpm, with power around 250+hp (although I sold it before the final dyno tune was done, so I never got to experience the full 250+hp ). Still the car sounded really nice, that was a short video where I was doing a poor man's dyno run by videoing the gauges while doing runs in 1st and 2nd gear:

Then again, after selling the CV and a Nissan 350Z, we got a new toy: z06.htm. 427 in^3 7.0 liter engine that redlines just a bit past 7000 rpm, 60mph in 1st, 90mph in 2nd, 125mph in 3rd, 162mph in 4th, top speed 198mph in 5th = 6330 rpm (need a really long runway, almost 2 miles just to get to 190mph), 6th is an overdrive. The tires are expensive, so I'll leave it to Tiff of 5th gear to do 100mph powerslides, and demonstrate the cool sound of a "small block" V8: z065g.wmv

Gauge view run to 190 in a Z06, it gets real slow once in 5th after 175mph, z06190.wmv especially compared to how quickly a bike like the Hayabusa can get to 185mp busa185.wmv, or more impressive, a souped up (non-turbo) version going 211mph (gps, speedo shows 220): busa211.wmv.

Last edited by JeffR, Sat 29 Jul 2006, 22:27.

As I've mentioned before, what will other racing sims be like by the time S3 is released? Looks like Simbin is continuing to improve the ISI physics engine. The only complaint about the GTR2 demo seems to be that Simbin enables traction control and abs if for the two cars in the demo (both demo cars are 2004 GT1 class which had TC and ABS, 2005 is just TC) regardless of game settings. I don't know if the official release will force TC on for all GT1 class cars (there's no TC for GT2 and GT3 classes). Personally I think simulation of a real racing car should include all the aspects of that car, including driver aids.

It's also my opinion that at the sims improve, the feel of the games differs less and less because the games get more accurate. Will rFactor 2 feel much different than GTR2?

One thing most of the other sims have going for them is the ability to add on tracks and cars, and there's enough forum feedback to determine which ones are worth importing into a game.

I've seen a couple of Forza videos and they looked pretty good. Don't know about the physics though. This could be the second game after Halo 2 that I'd like to see released for the PC.

Last edited by JeffR, Sat 29 Jul 2006, 21:49.

Ok, site is back up.

1365x768 video (1024x768 with pixel aspect ratio 1.333) of souped up porsche at Road America, taken with Sony HC1 camcorder:

ra1.wmv

Very short 1920x1080 video (1440x1080 with pixel aspect ratio 1.333) of hummingbird at feeder, also taken with Sony HC1 camcorder:

hc1d.wmv

Last edited by JeffR, Sat 29 Jul 2006, 18:01.

A generator went out, and the building that hosts my web site had it's power shut down, so it may be a while before the videos are back up. In the meantime you should be able to find some sample HC1 videos here:

http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com

Quote from alland44 :

I drive Lfs in 2048x1536 75Hz 32bit - I`ll try that !

I don't have the original, but I'm uploading a 1365x768 right now. You using a CRT monitor (like me), or are there high end flat panel displays now? I've got an HC1, will see if I have any videos worth watching.

Quote from alland44 :

Nice flickerfree movie. But you can do better in the same size of file, with divx, xvid, mpeg4.

True, but with .WMV files you can watch them while streaming them instead of having to download the entire file. Plus the source has a lot to do with quality:

Souped up porche at road america (from Sony HC1 hi-def cam, but 1920x1080 too big for most computers):
ra.wmv

DVD quality video:
cart.wmv

Last edited by JeffR, Fri 28 Jul 2006, 18:56.