For me it's 105% in profiler and 20%-30% in game. And im always using wheel rotation that's matching particular car (720 for xfg and xrg, 540 xfr etc.)

Whats up with this rims, why are they gone? D:
XRG has slightly different shape than now, more like a sport car. It looks good if you squint your eyes to smoothen all that huge pixels xD

Im sorry guys, but i had only one license to give away. Just did it to "pay back" for the license i was given few years ago.

Well, i will admit i forgot about it, but just few days ago i remembered, and i was about to start new draw. Anyway since you're finally here, and i haven't gave it to anyone else, it will be yours . Just let me do the payments, and i will try to give it to you ASAP

#EDIT
PM sent. Since license in Brazil is cheapest possible, i've bought £12 voucher for Naldo, so he can actually upgrade to S2, instead S1 like the topic suggest.
I hope you will enjoy your license and we will do some races!

Last edited by Razor1373, Tue, 4 Apr 2017 18:15.

Quote from BADLVBOY :

guys, remember, that screen is from me and i dont have any problems
just posted it for GrannyWithA50Cal, thought maybe he sees something

Ohh, i guess i was still sleeping when i've posted my answer

Well, there's already 2nd april in Poland, so prima aprilis doesn't work anymore. GIMME THAT SCIROCCO ! > : (

Yeah, probably you have to change the "gearshift mode" to "shifter" that's what came to my mind first when i've read your first post.

boobs, boobs are the answer

Haha! i Didn't saw that photo. FABULOUS!

Im more interested in the wheel, so don't know much about their motion seat. I saw video with it (tested on LFS ) and theres no fireworks, but for that price, it is still real good. The question is durability as you said. But when it comes to their wheel, we can be like 90% sure it will be durable, since it's same servo motor used in OSW, and we know OSW is durable.

PS. heres the video i talked about, and also their fb fanpage, but it isn't happening much there: https://www.facebook.com/feelvr/videos/182188915491488/
also here you have second video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdFru6jsSO4
(you might want to watch this more because SEXY WOMEN )

Hello,
I didn't saw anyone posting it here, so i'll do it. If someone wants to buy new wheel in the near future, he may want to wait little bit for that: http://feelvr.game/. It is prototype of DD wheel, not yet released, but it seems like it will be a good deal. For a price of estimated $400, you could be able to buy direct drive wheel build on small MiGe, so comparable with small OSW, but for less than half that price, and ready to go, without any building. Just need pedal set and shifter. It's not yet known where they will be releasing it, so it's not 100% sure. But i myself decided to buy new wheel, and my first choice was T300 alcantara, but after reading reports about it's durability, i've started reading about OSW and DD wheels in general, and then i've found that Feel VR. I decided to wait till they'll be releasing it, since it seem super worth, and regular wheels like logitech thrustmaster or even fanatec, are like toys, compared to DD. So just wanted to let you know, that something like this exists, and you may want to consider it before throwing your money on new wheel .

PS. They also have cheap motion simulator but, same as wheel, you cannot buy it yet. Still it can be worth waiting

Cheers Anici<3

Last edited by Razor1373, Wed, 11 Apr 2018 15:48.

Wow that's a great race report, you put a lot of effort into it . Congrats to Nova, easy win for him, he was controlling his pace all the time, brilliant drive
Im glad that i managed to go up so early in the morning, and i did fairly good even tho i first joined that combo 1h before quals UF1 was fun to drive there, but the new layout that lucaf made and it's on his server atm, well that is hell of a ride with restricted UFR. Looking forward for event with that new combo if you will find time to orgaize it. Otherwise just normal races will be also fun, so don't feel pressured

Yes, event was great, and commentary even better Looking forward for next round, i hope you will be making one

Quote from lucaf :

Looks like button clutch may be disabled in tomorrow's event, poll result now changed

That actually good probably, looking at the latest discuss about that topic. I'll try to join, but it's really early, and i will have not much time to prepare setup, and learn UF1, since i've never raced in this shopping cart

Quote from lucaf :

Im still missing one fact: Somebody said BC does not cause clutch heating? Is that 100% true? Lets take UFR for example, that car is a real clutch burner. Does BC save UFR driver from any clutch problems? That interests me, since I would like very much to organize UFR/UFJ/UFB events on my serv.

Another thing: Could somebody give a link, where I can have more information about these BC macros? That trick sounds really worrying and may affect my decision about BC usage on my server.

I think you should ban BC, i don't want to meet with toxicity of BADLVBOY again, when BC will be allowed.
And to answer your question about clutch wear. BC is reducing clutch wear, but it's not like it isn't problem anymore. On the example of UFR@your layout: on 3 laps race i had to lift everytime anyway. I didn't drive UFR much, but i think no matter if you have BC or AC, you will have to lift in UFR, but ofc it is most likely that you'll burn your clutch w AC than BC. The other example is XFG@BL1. On 5 laps race, i don't have to lift at all with BC, maybe even couple laps more. But if race is little bit longer, like 10 laps or more, then i will have to lift, but don't have to do it everytime. Like i can do first 5-8 laps without lifting, and then start to lift, so my clutch will not die. Basically the difference in clutch wear is bigger than difference in speed

Quote from Smashmolth :

First of all, I think Nilex could not have said it better , I personaly agree 100% with that post.




You look always bad when you use bc that's the thing. You know, I also like to drive far more on BC, because we are way faster compared to everyone else if we use it and also because the clutch doesn't overheat, but it is not fair. Soo.. I should only use bc against you, becouse you just cannot adapt, right? Maybe not. Why should We have the advantage when 50-90% of the people doens't have it. It is only going to make already unfair game even more unfair. You see, the gap between the very top and the rest is going to just increase. If you really love pressing ur little clutch button, do that but make the button speed was limited to max 6.00 or enable ac as well.

As i wrote in my post fragment that you've quoted. I have no problems in banned BC, i fully understand. I have problems in attitude that BC-users are getting from a lot of ppl. As far as it is now, it is part of a game. And if it's needed it can be banned on servers and leagues, AND IM FINE WITH IT (how many times did i say that?). Only unpleasant, impolite, and often aggresive attidues are bothering me.

I think that this conversation should be finished, since i've wrote what i wanted, and most understood what their wanted, or counter argued with just saying that im wrong without any proving, often being blind to my earlier arguments. It seems like most of ppl doesn't understand what im trying to say, but im glad, that there were someone who understood, and agreed with me.
I think that the ability to map clutch to a button, should be removed by devs. Not because it gives SO MUCH speed (but apparently no one knows exactly how much, and im lying saying i've checked that), but because it will stop exuses, and impolite comments. Just want to add from myself that arguing with me that BC is so much faster than i think, argued by ppl who have never used BC efficiently and/or have never tested the exact difference themselves, even tho im using it and i've tested it, is more than ignorant... But anyway, forget about it. I feel like losing my time, everyone starts to consider me as a buttonclutcher that want his button clutch allowed. You may think what you want, im done here. I hope devs will remove BC, so this shit will be finally over...

Quote from BADLVBOY :

Now this discussion should be finished, since experienced driver like NILEX came and said how it really is, he has used both for a long time, and im damn sure he knows the difference (some say it almost nothing ... LIES)

oh man, i so enjoyed reading these excuses

Before you post, you should test it by yourself. You are making statements about topics, you didn't even tested. At this point only one person gave exact value of difference at particular track and car, and this person is me. Of course Nilex is far more experienced than me, but i think that my 10 years with LFS, driving almost half of that time with AC and now im also driving both, is enough to write here about it. Im even, as i said couple of times, doing test directly focused on finding the exact value of difference. You did nothing to find out how big difference there is, and you dare to call me a liar. You've just showed again how ignorant you are. Im trying to prove my statements, giving constructive arguments, defending my opinion on the topic. You just come here calling me liar and earlier on, at the server, calling me bc kicker, and being impolite and arrogant in general. FYI, after you've leaved the server few days ago, just after i've beaten your time, i've proved everything i wrote here, by doing same laptimes with AC, but you didn't saw it...

EDIT
You are just the kind of person im writing about in all of my posts here. You're focused more on insulting BC-users, make them look bad and stupid, and make their achievements meaningless, than actually on bannig BC. And this is what im trying to deal with all the time. I don't care about banned BC. I care about making me look bad, and acting like im shitty driver even when im doing good, because im using BC. Or even more, trying to make me look like a bad person, because i dare to use BC, and it's pure evil apparently. At this point im starting to be disappointed with lfs community.

Last edited by Razor1373, Thu, 23 Mar 2017 10:15.

Quote from Nilex :

Inherently, long time ago, there was nothing wrong with it. More so when the button speed was limited to max 6.00 (10.00 today). AC and BC were more or less balanced back then (ease of use & consistency vs. difficulty & inconsistency).

Well i don't know how anyone can say that easy of use & consistency vs. difficulty & inconsistency is balanced. It's clearly not, if the button clutch is more difficult and inconsistent but doesn't give anything in return, then it's clearly worse, and it's not balanced. That's why it gives you slightly better speed, so you can be faster. Definitely: ease of use & consistency vs. (difficulty & inconsistency)+speed gain, is closer to balanced. If you've choose harder route, then you have to get some kind of reward for it, you have to get something in return.

Quote from Nilex :

Today all talks about wanting to use BC as a replacement for overpriced axis gear fall apart because the balance is long gone. As a former long time BC user I can testify that using it today makes winning effortless compared to AC or H-shifter. Absolutely everyone who says they are using it because of realistic feeling or whatever are lying. But it gets worse.

First of all, im not lying. Back in time when i was using AC, i was curious about clutch, and i've find out that i can map it to a button. I was cruising with it offline, and it felt for me a bit closer to reality, since i can stall the engine, i have to use it to change gears, etc. So i started using it, and it took me quite some time to learn it. I didn't started using it just to be fast. I wasn't checking how much faster i was after i've learned it, because i wasnt faster at all, or didn't even noticed that. At that time i didn't even know that it's considered faster, and all that drama about it. Now i can notice that im faster, and i can measure how much faster i am, and it isn't impressing in any way. Also i don't agree that winning with BC is effortless. It is not like that, that if you're using BC, then you can easly beat all the other ppl with AC. You have some advantage, but it isn't that big. AC guys still can beat you. Noticable difference between drivers can be seen on the really highest level. Like if you take one alien with BC and one alien with AC, then you can see a difference, because at this point, they are driving both consistent, smooth etc. so the disadvantage of BC (difficulty and inconsistent) doesn't exist, because driver can compensate it (but it takes skill and time = EFFORT). But the advantage of BC sure exists, and if it's 0.15-0.2s, then it is most likely, that such laptimes are simply impossible with AC. Seems unfair? Well BC-user had to give extra effort, time and practice compared to AC-user, and even with mastered BC, it still requires a little bit more of each driver aspect during the race. So it would seem unfair, if driver who had to give more effort, doesn't get anything in return. If we would lower the button rate to a level, that AC and BC are exactly same speed, then we can start banning AC, because it's unbalanced and unfair. Easier to drive, and not require any additional training and practice. So you can drive more consistent, and make fewer errors with absolutely 0 additional effort from you. That would be unbalanced and unfair. That would make winning with AC effortless compared to BC and H-shifter...

Quote from Nilex :

There are two ways to manipulate BC behavior is such a way you can't detect it easily. First is creating a macro that presses gear shift button and clutch simultaneously, negating all of the little difficulty it had over AC to somewhat balance it. The other one is increasing the button rate far beyond maximum 10 (without game going OOS). The more competitive the environment the worse it gets.

Situations with axis clutch used without H-shifter with clutch speeds exceeding that of a button are also present. These are very easy to detect at least.

Simplest and best way to handle this and maintain healthy competition environment is to force AC and allow axis clutch only in conjunction with H-shifter. Ban everything else. Forget the poll. Voting results are worthless when the subject matter is unknown to most.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that AC is currently un-exploitable because of the way it's implemented. Even if you tried to, you'd still be limited to hard-coded limit of AC. To my knowledge it's free of exploits. I believe it's the same for axis & H-shifter combo because I haven't yet spotted any shenanigans with that particular combination. Not 100% sure though, my sample base are only four people all of which are clean. This EDIT amendment is to give more context to the subject.

I will not talk about axis clutch things you wrote here, since i never had opportunity to try it, so i don't even know how it is. But about the BC, i totally agree with you here. I don't know about increasing the button rate beyond 10, but i think i saw a lot of ppl using macros, and that should be the reason to ban BC in leagues or servers. But the fact that some ppl use BC in illegal way, and also the fact that it's even possible (probably easly possible), shouldn't be reason to call BC unbalanced. But sure can, and even should, be reason to ban it in leagues, since it's the only way to get rid of that, and it's probably hard to prove that someone is using it (i mean illegal use of BC). That's why im not trying to force unbanning BC in any way. It can stay banned, im fine with that, i have no problems driving with AC. Im just trying, to stop the precedent of being impolite to BC-users, and underestimate their achievements, as i think i've explained in my previous posts.

PS. You were like my idol back in demo, 6-7y ago. I was learning from your HL replays of XFG, and im not sure if FBM too. Also i was using your setup and it all gave me a lot. It's a shame for me that i have to dissagree with you :|. I hope that this would not make you hate me

Cheers, Anici<3

Last edited by Razor1373, Thu, 23 Mar 2017 06:52.

Quote from Gutholz :

So we agree that button-clutch-rate engages faster than AC.
But we disagree on how large the effect is.

What buttonrate do you use?
Surely not a setting that is faster than AC because if bc supposedly has so many other advantages then that should not be nessecary...?

Why do you assume that people who disagree have not "tried it"?

I think that is simply the effect of getting used to something new.
Same effect you would see with any changed setting or new control scheme, whether it actually influences speed or not.

With bc too, at first it is unusual and that makes comparision difficult. However the effect of faster gear-change is clear whether one manages to turn it into reliable faster laps or not.
And that effect is archived by having faster engaging clutch than AC or is reliable possible with foot pedal = unrealistic = meh.

Ok now, let me start from the end of your post. That's like the thing i wanted to point out, because apparently, some said, that BC is easy, and doesn't require any practice, while actually it does. Beside getting use to new things, as you mention e.g. setup change, it also requires to manage new manners, and build muscle memory, which is ofc time consuming. But some ppl still act like it's up to changing one setting, and youre done. It's not. Im glad that someone is finally getting the idea.

I assume that ppl who disagree with me didn't tried it, because they are overrating the value of advantage that BC gives. Acting like BC is some kind of "game changer" while it's not, it's more of a feeling-thing that just pure faster gearchange.

Yes, im using fastest button rate possible. I don't understand why i should put handicap on myself. If i can make something that will help me, why should i resign of that. Do you on purpose make your setup worse, to be more fair? E.g. you've joined league, you worked really hard to setup your car perfectly (same as i worked REALLY hard to be able to make good use of BC), then it seems like other guys didn't work as hard, and they are losing a lot of time, due to worse setup. It seem like you will pretty much dominate that league. Do you put extra restriction, or change your setup, to match the pace of other guys? You worked hard, they didn't. So you should utilize your hard work, and get what you deserved. And i think this is what you do, same as i do with BC (expect BC gains are really small, or even doesn't exists on particular tracks).

I bet that if you've tried BC, then you didn't do it until you was getting better times. It seems to me like you just tried it, couldn't get any better than with AC, simply because you didn't invest the time and work it require to get the effects, but you saw that gear change is faster, and now you are spreading thoughts, that BC gives you so much advantage with near 0 invest. That what it looks like. I really suggest you, again, to try BC until you'll master it (probably will need from few days, up to a week, to see any effects), and then come here, and post the miserable difference between your best time using AC and BC. And then maybe your eyes will open, and you will see how much overrated it is. Or maybe im wrong, and you tested BC properly, so PLEASE prove me wrong, tell me what car did you tested, which track, and how big the difference was? And also tell me how much time it required you to be able to "exploit" the button-clutch, and how hard (or easy) it was...

PS. As i said, im sure that ppl that don't agree with me didn't tested it, because no one told me how much the difference is. And i tested it, i know the difference... And if you would test it properly, then you would see the tiny tenth or two of second gain, achieved after over a dozen painful and boring hours of hard practicing, while still not feeling comfortable with it. After that, all that bitching, about so small difference, which took so much energy and time to get it, is just stupid. It's like freaking obssesion.

And there's also one thing that bothers me. If theres a server which allows BC, or even worse, a league that allows it, then most of AC guys have so much pain in the ass, complaining all the time, forcing to ban it, sometimes even insulting BC-users. But what happens when theres server or league (most of them) with banned BC? Well BC-guy coming to such server or league, gets spectated after trying to join, turns off BC and that's it, no bitching, no insults, no forcing anyone to let him use BC. At least that's what i do, because i know BC gain is minor, and i've never saw any other BC-users to have a problem in such situation.

Quote from Gutholz :

It can be set to be basically instantly and I bet majority of bc-users uses it like that.

Excactly.
Clutch-rate should be seperate from the other pedals. Imo still does not make it less of an exploit to use unrealistic setting.

No, because that is about finding a compromises how the game can be played with widely-used hardware. (controllers, wheels with 2 pedals etc)
One is a compromise: Making the game more accessible for wider range of hardware.
Second is exploit: Using options that game offers for "less-optimal" hardware, with unrealistic settings, to gain advantage.

1. No, you can't set it any near "instantly" with that multiplier set to it's max which is 10, it still isn't near instant engage, it's quite faster than AC ofc, but really, the difference is so overrated. I honestly recommend you to check that out by yourself, so you can see the difference in laptimes is minor, and it's so hard to get that difference... I would be grateful, if you would check that out, compare, do some tests by yourself, then comback and post your feedback . I did check that, couple of times, and that's why im so sure, and self-confident about all that thing. Just check by yourself. As already 2 AC-guys posted, that BC isn't hard to learn, and it's so easy that's pretty much up to changing the settings, and boom, your already faster, which i definitely don't agree with, but if you say so, then it should be simple for you to check that, since it doesn't require any additional skill, right? I think every person posting that BC is so much faster and easy to use, should first do comparsion. Pick one car and track, try to set good lap with AC, and then do the same with BC. I think the first thought will be "well, it isn't that easy", and if someone will be determined enough, then will come the second though, that it's not as much faster, and requires some hard practicing. Please tell me if im wrong, AFTER YOU CHECK THAT. I think that even after dozens of laps with BC, it could look like it's actually slower, as i thought when i was trying to learn it. It really requires repeatable perfection in timing and synchronizing to see the results, and for it you have to build muscle memory, which takes time. And even if you got that right, then it's still getting some time, before you will eliminate skipping gear changes etc. Like, you can already do good lap with BC, but it will take some time to eliminate missgearing due to bad timed clutch, or problems with throttle blipping.

2. Well i thought of devs lowering the maximum possible button speed rate. Btw i don't know what else do you mean by "unrealistic setting". Well maybe there's some settings that i don't know about, and it makes button clutch users so much faster. This could explain why im not agreeing that BC i so much faster, because im not exploiting settings enough?
3. I can also say that:
Making the game more accessible for wider range of hardware. - e.g. automatic gearbox, for ppl that doesn't have H-shifter
Using options that game offers for "less-optimal" hardware, with unrealistic settings, to gain advantage. - e.g. Using sequntial paddle shifter, for H-pattern gerabox cars.

Last edited by Razor1373, Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:53.

Quote from Gutholz :

For some people playing sims is not only about getting every possible advantage, but also about somewhat realistic experience/immersion.

Well, BC is more immersive than AC, at least for me...

Quote from Gutholz :

I think none of the mentioned 'skills' that button-clutch supposedly requires exist. (For sure they are not skills that make it more realistic. )

Well if theres no skills needed to use button clutch, then why so many ppl have problem with it. Im still thinking, that everyone have ability to used it, it wont require any addiotional gear, just getting used to and practice. And im still thinking that probably most of ppl (not all) that want it banned, want it because they simply aren't able to use it efficiently, or don't want to invest any time for learning, so they are choosing the easy route.

Quote from Gutholz :

Since pedal-sets with only two pedals are wide-spread, it needs a way to drive without clutch-pedal: That is the auto-clutch option.

Let me correct. That is the auto-clutch and button-clutch option. Everyone can choose, what he prefers, and what he is able to use. It is logical that i'll choose the option that is both, more immersive and faster, makes me predict the car better.

Quote from Gutholz :

It simulates the time a pedal would take to operate.
But how button-clutch engages the clutch instantly, at least how it gets used 99% of time.

Button clutch doesn't engages the clutch instantly. It is faster than AC which is understandable (since AC is an assist, and it shouldn't be both: easier and faster), but it still simulates the time a pedal would take to operate, same as button brake and button throttle. Theres a multipler in settings, where you can customize it.

Quote from Gutholz :

That is unrealistic in way like it is unrealistic that gamepad or mouse-steering can go lock-to-lock instantly.

Then should we disallow using mouse or gamepad as a controller? Why no one every point that out. Clearly should be banned. Also, thinking that way, i have a question. Do you think, using paddleshifters, or sequntial gearstick, is realistic in cars like XFG, XRT, RB4 and every other in game car with H-pattern gearbox? Well we have clearly same situation, it is unrealistic, it gives unfair advantage, probably few times bigger (advantage) than BC compared to AC. I think that should be number 1 to eliminate, so force automatic gearbox, or H-pattern shifter + manual pedal clutch. Like why can all these ppl use sequntial gear change with paddles?! I will not use it because it's unrealistic, but they are so much faster because of that, that's unfair! We better force them to use automatic gears, so everyone have equal chances right? And, as you mentioned below, that BC engages clutch instatly, while it isn't, in this case, using paddleshifters makes the gear change actually instant, while we know it takes some time in reality to change between gears with H-shifter. Isn't that unfair?

Quote from Gutholz :

And so it is no surprise that main-advantage of button-clutch is not "better rev-matching" or "realism", it is simply that when upshifting on straights the bc-user accelerates fasters because his clutch operates unrealistic instantly.

Did you every tried driving with BC? How much faster it was commpared to AC 0.5s? more? Did you even noticed any difference? Actually from my point of view with BC im gaining most on braking zones and corners entry/exit, because i have just better feel of the car with it. Actually the difference is so small, that it makes all that complaining just funny, it looks like searching for some kind of exuses. The gain on the straight: lets say old BL1 straight with xfg, was something about 0.1s. The difference per lap oscialated around 0.15 - 0.2s, i've checked that like 2y ago, and i could get the difference lower, but i wasn't familiar with ac, and it often affected my rev matching, so i was loosing most of the time in braking to T1, SC1 all alone was 0.1 second slower. The whole thing with accelerating is some kind of myth. Ofc there is different in favor of BC, but i think it isn't any near the values that most of you thinks.

So to sum up. I've checked the difference few years ago, i've checked it yesterday. It depends on track, but the difference isn't critical, as you apparently think it is, on some tracks (layouts) it doesn't even exists. What is more important, i still can't understand, why some ppl are so mad about it, and want to force others wether to use BC or not. It is in game setting for Godness sake, it doesn't require any additional gear, so it's up to your decision if you want to use it or not, and you shouldn't force others to do what you thought is better. Some will say AC is more realistic, others will say opposite, everyone have their decision. Like nothing is stopping you from using BC, so you have to either, stick with AC, if that's the preffered option by you, and stop complaining, or start using BC, and be slightly faster. The whole thing is so simple, it's like decision: 'easier but slower' or 'faster and harder', everyone can decide by himself. If you've choosed the slower option, then deal with it, that some guys can be in advantage, because they choosed different. The whole thing just looks like bunch of ppl that can't learn to use BC, are salty and jealous, so the only option for them is apparently create some kind of drama, and make BC users look bad, and hopefully force them to use AC. IT'S YOUR GOD DAMN OPTION, YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING EXPECT WILL TO USE BC. The whole talk is just pointless. I really suggest you to try out BC by your self, and see with your own eyes how dissapointing is the time gain compared to the effort you put in, in order to learn it. Notice that pulling out one fast lap doesn't mean you've already learned, it also takes some time to be consistent, and some particular corners may really be awkward to drive with BC, creating more problems, even if you're already used to it. Maybe a good compromise would be to lower the speed of axis mapped as button, but then hotlaps would have to be deleted, and it would probably affect also throttle and brake axis if used as button. Or to prevent deleting HLs, make an option to force lower multiplier on servers, the same way auto-clutch can be forced.

@johneysvk
The shift macros are different thing, and i agree that this is the problem. But it shouldn't be reason to make every BC user feel like a shit, and understate their achivements, as i've experienced recently.

#EDIT

Quote from Racon :

Anici: You convinced me, BC's fine by me even if I don't use it.

I appreciate, and im not really interested in making BC allowed in leagues that much or on every server. Im fine with it, since if im fast, then im fast no matter if im using BC or AC just like every other BC-user. The major thing for me is that i think all that paranoia about button clutch went way too far. You can clearly see eg. someone with BC is joining server. Qualifying session, doing decent (lets say middle of the table). Everyone is kind and friendly, then that person is getting closer to best time, to finally beat it or being really close, and i bet there will bunch of ppl, that were nice before, but when that person is actually one of the fastest, they are starting pointing out button-clutch, saying unkind commentary, and making that person doings a lot smaller, not worthy. Like "ohh you did best time, but you are using BC, so it's like your 15 in the table, expect worse, because button clutch". That's really pissing me off. It's comparable with situation, when you are really fast, and some guys with keyboard or mouse will first be stunned, and then find out you are using wheel and say something like "well, you are using wheel, try that with mouse", "i guess it's easy with wheel" or "give me that wheel and i'll be faster". I think a lot of ppl with wheels faced such situation, me included, and the same thing is happening when you are using buttonclutch, expect sometimes they will start to be rude, and even try to humiliate you.

Last edited by Razor1373, Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:38.

Quote from lucaf :

I don't think others can see, what you vote, if you vote. And thank you for your opinion and experience about the thing. Really good to have opinions from both sides.

Yes i know that no one can see it but i'll still not vote, i dont really care if theres bc allowed or not, the difference in laptimes is so small, that i can't even see it, as i hope i showed today with ufr Anyway what i wanted to say, no matter if it's good or not to use BC, negating all of particular person achivements by saing smth like "uh noob using bc, pff" is simply arrogant (yes BADLVBOY, talking to you :|). Thats driving me crazy. As bc guy i often have to deal with ppl, that are treating me like a cheater or smth. It feels like you could beat every one by 0.5s per lap, and they will blame the clutch, where theres no way that bc would give such advantage, probably not even 0.2s. So basically, once again, button clutch reqiures just additional mapped button, so i think everyone have the ability to use it. My wheel also had buttons failure, but i simple used different button for clutch. And AC is an assist, and it works as every assist should, it makes driving easier, but without it you can be faster. I would agree that it should be banned, if the gain would be really big, but it is hardly noticable. Just feeling bad, that someone can do really good, and there will be always other guy that will say it's easy with button clutch, well then go and use it, and show how easy it is. Some corners may be really awkward to do, when you have to downshift, rev match, button clutch, and handbrake, with turned wheel, and then someone with auto clutch will call you "bc kicker" and say its easy.
I can also say that having two ways:
1. Learn to use bc which apparently gives you so much advantage
2. Screwe learning, you can simple say bc is evil and told every one it should be banned.
the second one is the easy (and lazy) way of being more competitive. But i will not say that (ups).

PS. As im reading what i've wrote i have only 2 thoughts on my mind. One is that i might have started some kind of shitstorm :|. Second one, maybe its better to make BC not allowed, just to show all these salty guys, that drivers that have used BC, are still same fast with AC, and button clutch doesnt make good driver. If someone is darn fast with BC, its most likely he will be also darn fast with AC

I will not vote here, since im using BC, and ppl will say im voting to get advantage. And for me it is no problem to use auto clutch, but it can mess up rev matching while downshifts.

Basically i think, bitching around the BC is senseless. Everybody is saying that it is so unfair and gives so much advantage etc. But why all of that ppl won't start using it? Because it's too hard for them probably. Using BC gives advantages, but no one is mentioning that it gets some practice before you can actually be better with it. It's not even that much better, but it's a lot harder, especially with cars where rev matching is a must. And IMO most of ppl complaining about it, are ppl who wished to used it, but simply it's too hard for them to get used to it, so they can't get any advantage.
Also the argument that jkat gave, that BC is unrealistic because there isn't such thing in real cars, well, i can say the same about auto clutch so...

My point is, if something gives advantage, then why i shouldn't use it? Maybe just because it's too hard for others, so they will be in disadvantage? Well that would be stupid. That way we can ban using wheels, because keyboard players are in disadvantage, and not everyone can afford a wheel. And the last thing. IMO BC is less unrealistic than AC, and it requires far more attention, feel, timing, practice etc. for really not that much gain. I actually started using button clutch, not to be faster (didn't even know back then it's faster), but to increase immersion, feel more like in real car.

Cheers Anici<3

Well i didn't set it towards the end. The thing is that i did only few dozens of hotlaps on the new bl, just when it came out and a few races, then i didnt drive it until yesterday race. All of that with my own tweaked set, and i suck at making sets. Since i didn't had any time to prepare for that race, i was just using my hl set with normal gearing. Moreover i wasnt feeling very comfotable, first 30-40 laps i was trying to recall good racing line and braking points, and how to drive decent lap. Thats why my very first laps looked nasty, i just didnt know how to drive . Then i realised my right rear tyre was wearing faster than i thought, so had to slow down, and make early pitstop, and then continue to driving slow, because i was afraid that my tyre will not last 42 laps. I only did 2 laps where i actually pushed, one of them with some error, and the other was my fastest in the race, and these laps were lap 79 and 80 because i knew my tyre will withstand it.

Ok mate, then i will try to join, it can be really nice and fun race if more ppl will join, i did less than 100 laps on new bl1 but im feeling pretty good there, better than on old bl. I hope for really close race, and maybe my tire will not blowup this time

Hello lucaf, it's great that you decided to organize next race . Is it only for demo players, or demo and licensed?

Last edited by Razor1373, Fri, 3 Mar 2017 08:42.