I wasn't aware they used it in real life. Its a simulator, and it has its limitations. We have to realize that not every driver has been taught the same racing ediqutee (if at all). I'm i'm going down a straight, and I start pulling left and turn on my right blinker, it should be obvious which way I want you to go. My blinker means, for me, "I know you're there, go that way so we won't have a problem." I can't jerk out of my current line, lest I risk losing control (or speed).
In real life, you can look at hand signals, or you assume they know you're there. Its slightly harder to achieve spacial awareness in a Sim (something I'm good at, and it makes me kind of proud), so you have to be careful...
Obviously, they don't always know you're there in real life, which is why accidents happen. But the blinker was a working solution to a problem which has a unqiue solution in real life, one we can't immitate. The hands.
On my old Momo, I had the bottom two buttons bound to left/right blinker, and the right middle bound to cancel blinker. Thats how I told people which side to pass on. I do this because -I- block messages when racing, mostly because they block the minimap and I like to know if the car behind me is a lap up or fighting for position.
However, with my G25 (May my Momo RIP), I don't have my blinkers bound yet (because my wheel buttons are look L/R). I might bind them to the gear shifter when I get more used to it, but for now I just hope the faster cars are good enough to take turns two wide and/or pass intelligently.
Sounds complicated for shift-Hing. Never sure which gesture you're on...
How about scripting it? /wave, /finger, /raisehand, ect, so all you have to do is bind an F-key to it (and then you can assign a wheel button to the F-key). I'm not sure all the common gestures used in open-wheeled racing (I saw a video once with an in cockpit camera for a car that looked like the LX series. The purpose (of posting it on the forums) was to show the diffrent wind volume effects in and out of draft, but the drivers as the guy came up behind them kept throwing their arms up. At first, I thought they were trying to tell him to back off their bumper (he was drafting really close), but then I realized it might be a "pass on left/right" signal of some sort...), but I think they should work for all types of cars. Just some wouldn't get noticed quite so much (I'm never really bothered to look in the cockpits of XRRs as I drive past them/they drive past me). But for the LX open configs, for example, it would indeed be nice.
However:
How in the world will this work with the wheel animation without rescripting the whole thing? And how do you decide WHICH side you give the finger to? Back? Left? Right? Front?
How about scripting it? /wave, /finger, /raisehand, ect, so all you have to do is bind an F-key to it (and then you can assign a wheel button to the F-key). I'm not sure all the common gestures used in open-wheeled racing (I saw a video once with an in cockpit camera for a car that looked like the LX series. The purpose (of posting it on the forums) was to show the diffrent wind volume effects in and out of draft, but the drivers as the guy came up behind them kept throwing their arms up. At first, I thought they were trying to tell him to back off their bumper (he was drafting really close), but then I realized it might be a "pass on left/right" signal of some sort...), but I think they should work for all types of cars. Just some wouldn't get noticed quite so much (I'm never really bothered to look in the cockpits of XRRs as I drive past them/they drive past me). But for the LX open configs, for example, it would indeed be nice.
However:
How in the world will this work with the wheel animation without rescripting the whole thing? And how do you decide WHICH side you give the finger to? Back? Left? Right? Front?
Wow, nice detail on the tyres. Out of curiosity, do you know what all the chalk (or whatever they write with) markings mean on race tyres? I've an aquantience who is thinking about making new textures for the tyres, and wanted references to use.
Understandable. Not all routers are the same. I was just mentioning, incase anyone tried it, that they may run into that wall, so be prepared to find a secondary solution.
LOL Green. Yes, lets tell him to brute-force hack over his own network XD.
Not always possible, my router has a 3 failed attempts 1 hour lockout on it, so if I do brute force by hand or with a program (which I think I broke the CD I kept it on... One of these days I'll need a new one) it'll still take a long long time...
Wheel4hummer:
Personally, I don't have issues getting my dad to forward ports, because he knows what they are. Maybe if you sit down and explain it, perhaps pull up some references? Act like an Adult, treat him with respect, and give him no reason to say no (no matter how mad he gets you!). Its worth a try, is it not?
Not always possible, my router has a 3 failed attempts 1 hour lockout on it, so if I do brute force by hand or with a program (which I think I broke the CD I kept it on... One of these days I'll need a new one) it'll still take a long long time...
Wheel4hummer:
Personally, I don't have issues getting my dad to forward ports, because he knows what they are. Maybe if you sit down and explain it, perhaps pull up some references? Act like an Adult, treat him with respect, and give him no reason to say no (no matter how mad he gets you!). Its worth a try, is it not?
http://lfs.thefloatingwidget.net/guide.html
Check that out. Bob Smith wrote a wonderful setup guide a while ago. Although LFS has changed on some points since then, he keeps it mostly up to date (including mentioning for several settings that it is no longer adjustable).
Setups are probably the most interesting blend of an art and science I know of. There are some things that you just have to 'feel' what is the right setting, while others can be roughly calculated and tweaked.
Also, the guide isn't a bible, so to say. If you feel better using a diffrent setting than he recommends, then do it. I know a lot of fast people who are quick with a Locked Differincial. I, however, like my tyres, so I don't use it. There are some people that like 100% parrell steer, 0% parrell steer... Some people like tight cars, some people like loose cars, while others like neutral. Its your driving style, build your setup to acommidate it.
I know this means that you'll usually be playing the roll of engineer, crew chief, driver, AND pit crew most of the time. If engineering isn't your thing, ask for setups online after/before a race (they can send them instantly). Experiment with diffrent people's setups, and find someone's style that suits yours.
I think you just overloaded my Sarcasm meter
On a side note: Yes, having better AI would be nice. But there is a lot of work in that that would become invalidated later with each and every single physics update. Maybe it wouldn't make it completely worthless, but its effectiveness would drop sharply. If we added brake temps, the AI is probably going to start late-braking and running off the track. Why make Scawen code the same thing time and time again?
It definatly isn't realistic. It probably isn't even possible...
Once, a long time ago, some programmers made up this contest. The goal of this contest was to script an AI 'driver' to race against other AI 'drivers' on a super simple racing simulation. People could write MOUNTAINS of scripts, but there was always someone faster. Even the 'fastest' at the time often lost their title as someone developed a faster AI. The cars had simple suspensions, G-Forces and traction circles, could damage each other by hitting (so they avoided it... Usually). You could run off the track, the AI had to follow the line...
There were some AI scripts that, literally, slowed the processers to a halt. Why? Because they tried to calcualte the 100% perfect everything. They never succeeded.
AI will never be 100% unbeatable if you stick them with the same rules players have. Its just not really possible without spending far far too long coding the scripts, and then a single AI car would probably (at that point) slow you down.
AI should be challanging. They should learn, race clean, and adjust in difficulty to match your pace. Guess what? For the most part, they do that. Its not perfect, no. Maybe you can always beat the AI, so what? Give them handicaps to keep the races closer. Or play online.
My point is, again, yes, it needs some work. Most of the things in LFS need at least 'some' work, and several things need a LOT of work. But the trick is, to wait patiently. It will come, and when it does, it'll make a lot of people happy. Will you be one of them, or will you have already given up an Online Racing Simulator because the offline AI was too easy?
Once, a long time ago, some programmers made up this contest. The goal of this contest was to script an AI 'driver' to race against other AI 'drivers' on a super simple racing simulation. People could write MOUNTAINS of scripts, but there was always someone faster. Even the 'fastest' at the time often lost their title as someone developed a faster AI. The cars had simple suspensions, G-Forces and traction circles, could damage each other by hitting (so they avoided it... Usually). You could run off the track, the AI had to follow the line...
There were some AI scripts that, literally, slowed the processers to a halt. Why? Because they tried to calcualte the 100% perfect everything. They never succeeded.
AI will never be 100% unbeatable if you stick them with the same rules players have. Its just not really possible without spending far far too long coding the scripts, and then a single AI car would probably (at that point) slow you down.
AI should be challanging. They should learn, race clean, and adjust in difficulty to match your pace. Guess what? For the most part, they do that. Its not perfect, no. Maybe you can always beat the AI, so what? Give them handicaps to keep the races closer. Or play online.
My point is, again, yes, it needs some work. Most of the things in LFS need at least 'some' work, and several things need a LOT of work. But the trick is, to wait patiently. It will come, and when it does, it'll make a lot of people happy. Will you be one of them, or will you have already given up an Online Racing Simulator because the offline AI was too easy?
The AI is still based on the old S1 code... Which, if I recall, was before the BF1, before pitting, and before a whole lot of stuff. Most racers find the enjoyment in racing other, REAL people online (hence the name, online racing simulator). However, improving the AI code is deffinatly on the to-do list somewhere, however there are quite the number of things above it.
Imagine, everything the fundumentals of the game's physics engine changes, the AI has the be recoded. What I belive the devs are trying to do (I can't speak for them) is get the physics more up there with their many improvements from transmission simulation, to brake wear, to everything else you can think of. Once THAT is done, then the AI will be coded to drive better.
Yes, we all agree the AI... well... The AI has problems. However, we all disagree on what should be added first. Thats probably why we don't know WHEN exactly it will be fixed, because the Devs don't have a to-do list they let everyone read and nit pick at. One of the great things about the way they work is that they work on what they FEEL like working on. That means every last bit will have the passion of a hard at work coder, rather than turning out rushed half-working everything time and time again.
Short Answer:
When the Devs get to it, but not even they know when that will be.
Imagine, everything the fundumentals of the game's physics engine changes, the AI has the be recoded. What I belive the devs are trying to do (I can't speak for them) is get the physics more up there with their many improvements from transmission simulation, to brake wear, to everything else you can think of. Once THAT is done, then the AI will be coded to drive better.
Yes, we all agree the AI... well... The AI has problems. However, we all disagree on what should be added first. Thats probably why we don't know WHEN exactly it will be fixed, because the Devs don't have a to-do list they let everyone read and nit pick at. One of the great things about the way they work is that they work on what they FEEL like working on. That means every last bit will have the passion of a hard at work coder, rather than turning out rushed half-working everything time and time again.
Short Answer:
When the Devs get to it, but not even they know when that will be.
+1 to your +1s and +100 (on animated flag waving marshalls!)
Although I personally belive that the mid-screen flag message should remain as an option toggled on by default. I can just see the agony of a new player used to some other sim not realizing that they have to look at PEOPLE waving the flags, like real life, thus ignore them, and annoy everyone else on the field. I'd turn it off, but we must appreciate that not everyone entering LFS will be ready for that dose of reality, no?
Welcome!
Go ahead and buy it. In the long run, it won't matter. Here is why.
Currently, pay £24 for S2.
When S3 comes out, those with S2 only pay an additional £12 to upgrade to S3. Those WITHOUT S2 or S1 will have to pay £36. Either way, S3 is going to cost the same in the long run. The diffrence is, if you buy S2 now, you have something to play while you wait, and you can give your opinion on how the game should develop!
And to the famous "when will S3 come out?" question, there is one answer.. Well, two. Short and Long...
Long:
No-one knows. Not even the Devs. Rather than set a release date, they work and work and work until they have it right. Would you rather a bugged, rushed product with a release date; or would you rather a slowly developing product you can play as it gets better, and when it finnally reaches it's pinnicle... no matter how far away that is, you'll be confident that the product is bug free because YOU helped get it that way!
Short:
When it is time... When it is ready.
EDIT: Annnnddd...
As I post that, I notice it says: "Adamboston; S2 licensed". Welcome to the club!
For me, it was kinda natural to tell my girlfriend. We've been going out about a year and four months (shy a week and a half), and shes always known (even before we started dating) that I liked driving cars. She has even commented on me being a good driver (although I take it with a grain of salt, as she compliments a lot of people on things and isn't always earnest...).
Anyways, I expressed my interest of getting into racing with her, and she didn't take THAT too well. Seen far to many people to get hurt on TV and online to understand that autocrossing is a lot safer than bumper to bumper racing. When I found LFS, I told her, and she was really happy. If I say the game was a 'realistic simulator', she belives me, and doesn't view it as a 'game' persay. More like a hobby. Although she still can't belive I bought the G25: "HOW MUCH on a toy?"... Oops
But onto topic... Is it geeky? I think its a fine line. Its a great, safe, and cheap outlet for the urge/desire to race for real. But there comes a point, much like real pilots play flight simulators, they're still raise eyebrows at the guy with a 30 moniter setup for full 360 vision and flight controls.
My verdict? No. Although that possibly could be a biased opinion to save my fragile self esteem
Anyways, I expressed my interest of getting into racing with her, and she didn't take THAT too well. Seen far to many people to get hurt on TV and online to understand that autocrossing is a lot safer than bumper to bumper racing. When I found LFS, I told her, and she was really happy. If I say the game was a 'realistic simulator', she belives me, and doesn't view it as a 'game' persay. More like a hobby. Although she still can't belive I bought the G25: "HOW MUCH on a toy?"... Oops
But onto topic... Is it geeky? I think its a fine line. Its a great, safe, and cheap outlet for the urge/desire to race for real. But there comes a point, much like real pilots play flight simulators, they're still raise eyebrows at the guy with a 30 moniter setup for full 360 vision and flight controls.
My verdict? No. Although that possibly could be a biased opinion to save my fragile self esteem
Eek! No! Don't do it! 
-1 for me. I'd understand limiting them in some form, so the precision and range decreases, but eliminating so much? Like so many others have said, it just seems kinda pointless.
What I'd personally rather see, is the diffrent cars have more realistic ways to adjust things. Not as LFS currently is, but later down the line. As is, the percise settings allow us (and the devs) to directly transfer settings into physics forumla, and ensure realism. Down the line, however, I'd rather see less percise and more realistic settings. Rather then give an exact braking force, select a grade of brake pads (such as tyres, where diffrent brake grades have diffrent wear and brake value). Rather than give an exact gear ratio, select a series of gear sizes (obviously someone will have to write up a tutorial on that, so those used system as is now [and in every other game] can learn how the real ones work). Obviously some things can be messured and adjusted IRL, just as toe and camber, so those are fine as is...
I think a lot of people would miss so many settings on the road cars, but I do agree they're a 'bit' too adjustable. Hopefully the happy medium will come along in a version before the final, but thats one thing I love about this game. It'll always get better, until its perfect.
-1 for me. I'd understand limiting them in some form, so the precision and range decreases, but eliminating so much? Like so many others have said, it just seems kinda pointless.
What I'd personally rather see, is the diffrent cars have more realistic ways to adjust things. Not as LFS currently is, but later down the line. As is, the percise settings allow us (and the devs) to directly transfer settings into physics forumla, and ensure realism. Down the line, however, I'd rather see less percise and more realistic settings. Rather then give an exact braking force, select a grade of brake pads (such as tyres, where diffrent brake grades have diffrent wear and brake value). Rather than give an exact gear ratio, select a series of gear sizes (obviously someone will have to write up a tutorial on that, so those used system as is now [and in every other game] can learn how the real ones work). Obviously some things can be messured and adjusted IRL, just as toe and camber, so those are fine as is...
I think a lot of people would miss so many settings on the road cars, but I do agree they're a 'bit' too adjustable. Hopefully the happy medium will come along in a version before the final, but thats one thing I love about this game. It'll always get better, until its perfect.
Man, I'd hate to see the price tag on one of those things. Still... It looks so much fun, how can one resist the urge to save? GASP! Maybe if I save a little every paycheck, I can afford it by the time S3 comes out!
And as for price, I'm guessing it varies. From the site, it seems most of the stuff is custom tailored to each purchase. More expensive parts, more expensive pricetag.
Still looks fun though
And as for price, I'm guessing it varies. From the site, it seems most of the stuff is custom tailored to each purchase. More expensive parts, more expensive pricetag.
Still looks fun though
Wow, that last couple of seconds was pretty ugly. Ramming that black car right off the track. I can see how you might not have expected to see them there, focusing so much on the car in front, but still...Thats weird. I've been pounding my paddels for a while now. I found that moving from wheel to mouse for a few months, and back to wheel, dealing with the wheel and shifter and clutch was a bit too much to handle (especially when I drive an automatic IRL, heh). So I've been using the paddels the entire time. At first they seemed a little... how to put... weird (having been used to the MOMO's Plastic ones) but now they're fine, and show no sign of wear. It might just be a wireing fluke on your part 
. Did you call Logitech Tech support?
So far, it all seems pretty well built. My only issue at first was the shifter. However, after throwing it around a bit (Yes, I played with it before I decided to stick with the paddels until I got acustomed back to using a wheel), I've found the 'flimsy' feel so many people reported is just an illusion. Its actually pretty well build. Only, I kept missing gears, heh.
I'm happy with it, and I'd be suprised if a unit or two didn't have a fluke like the paddel issue mentioned. It probably won't be a common problem. I hope.
. Did you call Logitech Tech support?So far, it all seems pretty well built. My only issue at first was the shifter. However, after throwing it around a bit (Yes, I played with it before I decided to stick with the paddels until I got acustomed back to using a wheel), I've found the 'flimsy' feel so many people reported is just an illusion. Its actually pretty well build. Only, I kept missing gears, heh.
I'm happy with it, and I'd be suprised if a unit or two didn't have a fluke like the paddel issue mentioned. It probably won't be a common problem. I hope.
SQUEE!!!!
So I get home, and there is this box sitting on my computer chair. For about 1/16th of a second, I was upset. Then I noticed the tape on the box (which, oddly enough, is branded with the Logitech logo).
It cries for me, begging to be assembled and used! But alas, it is late and I have work tommorrow
. BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER! ITS HERE!! Weee! (I'd spam a million more of these, but I've a box to gawk at).
So I get home, and there is this box sitting on my computer chair. For about 1/16th of a second, I was upset. Then I noticed the tape on the box (which, oddly enough, is branded with the Logitech logo).
It cries for me, begging to be assembled and used! But alas, it is late and I have work tommorrow
. BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER! ITS HERE!! Weee! (I'd spam a million more of these, but I've a box to gawk at).I'm pretty sure the clutch isn't the primary issue with the grinding noise.
On my bike, sometimes when downshifting coming to a light I try to drop it into first a little to soon. The revs would, if I did shift, hit 4 1/2 thousand RPM on a 6 thousand redline. However, if I try this, when I tap to downshift the transmission grinds and I end up in neutral, the bike refusing to drop into first.
This might have to do with the gears. If memory serves, I belive in my bike the first gear's teeth are straight while the others are at an angle. This aids in shifting while moving, but obviously the first gear is a lot harder to slam into gear at high RPMs. And I don't revmatch on my bike, so possibly I might be able to get it into first at those speeds if I tried. Possibly.
I figure, the grinding noise comes from when the gears don't line up right and end up not sliding into place. The faster they're spinning, the harder it is for them not to catch. The purpose of the clutch is to aid in the catching of the gears. Thus, without the clutch, the game must assume the gears aren't catching (which, with a racecar, I'd guess is easier since most everything is spinning faster than on my bike).
Its all a guess, build from my personal experience and my limited understanding of automotive mechanics. Oh, and incase you're wondering, my first gear is fine. I haven't noticed any effect of the grinding noise (other than me shuttering).
On my bike, sometimes when downshifting coming to a light I try to drop it into first a little to soon. The revs would, if I did shift, hit 4 1/2 thousand RPM on a 6 thousand redline. However, if I try this, when I tap to downshift the transmission grinds and I end up in neutral, the bike refusing to drop into first.
This might have to do with the gears. If memory serves, I belive in my bike the first gear's teeth are straight while the others are at an angle. This aids in shifting while moving, but obviously the first gear is a lot harder to slam into gear at high RPMs. And I don't revmatch on my bike, so possibly I might be able to get it into first at those speeds if I tried. Possibly.
I figure, the grinding noise comes from when the gears don't line up right and end up not sliding into place. The faster they're spinning, the harder it is for them not to catch. The purpose of the clutch is to aid in the catching of the gears. Thus, without the clutch, the game must assume the gears aren't catching (which, with a racecar, I'd guess is easier since most everything is spinning faster than on my bike).
Its all a guess, build from my personal experience and my limited understanding of automotive mechanics. Oh, and incase you're wondering, my first gear is fine. I haven't noticed any effect of the grinding noise (other than me shuttering).
So, mine should be arriving later today
I was curious if anyone who has set it up already has found any decent FFB settings to use. I know with my old Momo I couldn't make heads or tails of much of anything, and wound up using the default settings. Learned after I got it that tweaking the things around a bit would often give a better FFB experience, but by then my Momo was already dead. (RIP)
If any has, could they perhaps post them? I know its not possible to have 'the best' settings, because everyone has their own preference, but a starting point would be nice.
P.S.
Just checked tracking. Its left the distributor down the street and hour ago! They should be here any minute! *bounce bounce*
I was curious if anyone who has set it up already has found any decent FFB settings to use. I know with my old Momo I couldn't make heads or tails of much of anything, and wound up using the default settings. Learned after I got it that tweaking the things around a bit would often give a better FFB experience, but by then my Momo was already dead. (RIP)
If any has, could they perhaps post them? I know its not possible to have 'the best' settings, because everyone has their own preference, but a starting point would be nice.
P.S.
Just checked tracking. Its left the distributor down the street and hour ago! They should be here any minute! *bounce bounce*
M&SRT
Drivers:
1-
Sean Williams (Shinrar)2-
Klaas Zijlstra (Morivar)Car:
GT1 Class, XR-GTR (XRR)
Number:
48
We're holding off on joining until Westhill, obviously not having applied in time to make Aston.
Last edited by Shinrar, .
Reason : Clairification
Fort Lauderdale, about three and a half to four hours south of you. Although I do run up to the Orlando area every bit (like this friday); realitives.
Anywho, I'm ssoo excited! Weeeee!!!
Items shipping soon:
Delivery estimate: October 20, 2006. This is going to be a very unproductive weekend as far as things to do around the house is concerned. 
Delivery estimate: October 20, 2006- 1 of: Logitech G25 Racing Wheel
Sold by: Amazon.com
. This is going to be a very unproductive weekend as far as things to do around the house is concerned. Hahahaha! I finnaly have S2! ^.^
And I just order the G25 too. Ahh... Soon life will be good... Oh so good... See you all on the track!
And I just order the G25 too. Ahh... Soon life will be good... Oh so good...
See you all on the track!Er, thanks. Wow. I've got a lot of work ahead of me... Heh. Thanks though.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG