Motivation hrm? Anything we can do to help?
I found your guide about setups very informative, and I've used that as a basis for all of my three cars I can tweak and configure... Can't wait until I get the rest, but for now I've still got plenty of speed to squeeze out of my cars. I even use your easy-going setups as a base, dispite the fact that you claim their not as good as they should be because of the physics updates.
Hrm. About the oil, I probably won't go for race or motorsports oils (as Bal00 suggested), dispite my plans to autocross with the car. The reason being, I'm not all that sure how often I'll be able to get it out to autocross in, seeing as I haven't found any sort of schedule or anything for autocrossing that happens more often than a month. I think a day where I drive the car hard per month isn't enough to warrent motorsports engine oil for the other 29-30 days in the month.
But on Vain's other points...
I'll want new tires soon, but is that just because of wear, or more for performance reasons? I mean, if the tires that come with the car are already pretty decent as far as performance, is there any real reason I'd want to change them?
Heh, well I ment more along the lines of, 'what can be done to the car if I know its going to be wet to minimize the effect of the wetness'. I'm really thinking about cleaning out that garage now because of it too. The only downfall, moving a garage full of boxes to my fiberglass insulation filled attic with no floorboards (so I'll have to bring up and lay down plywood sheets). But I think it'll be worth it. Plus it'll keep the sun from beatting down to hard on the paint, which although it has nothing to do with performance, it'll at least help keep it looking nice.
EDIT:
I was just thinking, about the wet...
I was thinking about how brake pads heat up during braking, and how rotors probably would also heat up, as the pad heats up because of the friction between the two. What sort of effect would, say, rain water touching the rotors and brake pads during heavy braking have?
To illustrate an example, say I'm driving, and its raining. Because of road conditions, there is a puddle on the road that I wasn't aware of until the car in front of me hit it hard. In order to prevent hitting him, I would probably slow down if I couldn't change lanes, and depending on the effect of the water on his car (I've had my car go from 30 to 15 when I hit a puddle I didn't see once, because it was raining so hard my visibility had dropped a good deal. And I didn't let off any gas pressure when I hit the puddle) I may have to brake pretty hard. If I do a hard brake to avoid hitting him, then hit the puddle, what would happen to my brake pads and rotors? Anything seriously bad? (The only solution to preventing this to happen that I can think of, is avoid driving in the rain, so I'll probably just have to deal with it if it ever does happen)
But on Vain's other points...
I'll want new tires soon, but is that just because of wear, or more for performance reasons? I mean, if the tires that come with the car are already pretty decent as far as performance, is there any real reason I'd want to change them?
Heh, well I ment more along the lines of, 'what can be done to the car if I know its going to be wet to minimize the effect of the wetness'. I'm really thinking about cleaning out that garage now because of it too. The only downfall, moving a garage full of boxes to my fiberglass insulation filled attic with no floorboards (so I'll have to bring up and lay down plywood sheets). But I think it'll be worth it. Plus it'll keep the sun from beatting down to hard on the paint, which although it has nothing to do with performance, it'll at least help keep it looking nice
.EDIT:
I was just thinking, about the wet...
I was thinking about how brake pads heat up during braking, and how rotors probably would also heat up, as the pad heats up because of the friction between the two. What sort of effect would, say, rain water touching the rotors and brake pads during heavy braking have?
To illustrate an example, say I'm driving, and its raining. Because of road conditions, there is a puddle on the road that I wasn't aware of until the car in front of me hit it hard. In order to prevent hitting him, I would probably slow down if I couldn't change lanes, and depending on the effect of the water on his car (I've had my car go from 30 to 15 when I hit a puddle I didn't see once, because it was raining so hard my visibility had dropped a good deal. And I didn't let off any gas pressure when I hit the puddle) I may have to brake pretty hard. If I do a hard brake to avoid hitting him, then hit the puddle, what would happen to my brake pads and rotors? Anything seriously bad? (The only solution to preventing this to happen that I can think of, is avoid driving in the rain, so I'll probably just have to deal with it if it ever does happen)
Last edited by Shinrar, .
Reason : had a thought...
And now for my long winded reply 
In reply to:
Bal00-
Wow, thanks for the very informative reply. Some of it I actually didn't know! Yay! I learned something! A few questions though (anyone else can answer if they know...).
Hehe. Thats what I do with my car right now. I hear a squeeky sound, I drive it to the dealer (they know me by sight and car I'm there so often for repairs/maintance 
). I say, it squeeks, he says, It'll be ready tommorrow (or in some cases, longer). I return on designated date, pick up car, pay money, and drive home. Its a good system, but my goal is to avoid the need for its usage as much as possible.
tristiancliffe-
Honestly, I was really looking forward to your opinion. I've been lurking on the fourms for a while, and you've shown a rather impressive ability to justify what you say with reasons, factual and logical. As for what you said, it'll be a new car so I don't have to worry too much about previous owner's miscare for the car.
Also, about the braking, is there some sort of 'give zone' in the brake where the lights will come on, but the brakes won't be engauged yet? Is it possible to add something similar? On my bike, I usually engine brake and just lightly tap my rear brake (slowly applying more and more pressure as I slow down, releasing right before I stop) for the sole purpose of brake lights.
And about engine braking... Is it better for the wear to engine brake without any brake use, or brake without any engine brake use (clutch pressed or car in neutral). I suspect a moderation of the two would be the ideal match, but I was curious as to which was 'better' for the car.
z3r0c00l-
As much fun as that sounds, I don't have a place to do any sort of work on my car, nor do I have the nessisary tools to do it right. My parent's garage is filled with... stuff... lots of stuff (what is it with us Americans using garages to store stuff rather than storing cars? Is that a US weirdo thing, or is it global?). And yes, I have to do it in my garage rather than outside. Its too hot to work outside for long periods of time, and my garage is air conditioned.
Also, the manual will tell me where everything is, where everything goes, but not how to fix anything, so I need a teacher as well. Maybe in the future, but for now, I'm stuck with the overtime and paying someone else to fix it.
pb32000-
The goal isn't to make everything last as long as possible, it is to keep the car in prime shape without replacing everything or leaving it sitting by learning how to take care of it in the mean time, so when I do autocross, I can get it's best performance.
Vain-
Uh oh. It rains almost -all- the time where I live. Seriously, they call Florida the sunshine state, and we get insane levels of rain. I think I read somewhere that florida has a historical rainfall level ranging from 34 inches to 89 inches (just to show that our state can't make up it's mind). I might be able to park it in the garage (if I get it cleaned before December), but thats not very likely. Plus, most parking lots are in the open, and I'll probably drive in the rain a lot... Is there something that can minimize the effect of rain on the car?
As far as the tires, I'm probably going to keep the OME tires on the car, because thats just what I do. I might invest more money in the future on better tires, but I doubt I'll change the size.
Transmission... You said a lot, how do I know if it is or isn't made for fast performance shifting? Is there some way to tell?
The power steering thing I didn't know, Thanks!
wheel4hummer-
Me too. I spend a good deal of my time in the car muttering about how stupid people are, tapping their brakes going down a road just because someone 10-15 car lengths ahead of them changed lanes.
STROBE-
I belive what tristian was saying, was not 'don't use the brakes', but rather, 'use the brakes with meaning'. Tapping, or applying a feather's weight in force, would cause the brakes to perform less well when you need them. But its good advice none-the-less.
herki-
Ohh... gearbox oil. That never crossed my mind. Going to look into that right now.
In reply to:
Bal00-
Wow, thanks for the very informative reply. Some of it I actually didn't know! Yay! I learned something! A few questions though (anyone else can answer if they know...).
- Under tires, you mentioned avoiding slip. Do tires that hydroplane at all (I've had a few instances when I wasn't paying attention when I stop, and I put my drive tires in standing water... When I applied gas, there was a bit of wheel spin) wear tires a considerable amount? I know it would (I think) wear less than a wheelspin on dry asphault or tarmac, but is the wear on tires something significant, or negligable?
- Under Transmission, you mentioned avoiding driveline shock. Would blipping the throttle on downshift be something worth learning for street speeds, or is the transmission designed to take that particular level of shock without a real care in the world?
- Under Maintainance, you gave a little lesson on Oil changes. I'm going to talk to my dealer mechanic for my current car (who won't be the same mechanic for my new car, as it'll be a diffrent brand. Diffrent dealer) about oil longevity, because what you say makes sense (my dad's caddilac has an oil-life sensor, and when we oil change its usually in the 60-70% remaining range, which I always found odd). I'll have to read what the fine print in the warrenty says about oil changes (incase it might void it if I 'neglect' it too long), but would you say performance oils last more or less time than non-performance oils? And assuming the oil I use has an effect on the 'threshold' you mentioned, what would be a good way to caclulate when to change it? Would it say on the bottle, or should I knock a thousand or so off whatever the bottle says?
Hehe. Thats what I do with my car right now
. I hear a squeeky sound, I drive it to the dealer (they know me by sight and car I'm there so often for repairs/maintance ). I say, it squeeks, he says, It'll be ready tommorrow (or in some cases, longer). I return on designated date, pick up car, pay money, and drive home. Its a good system, but my goal is to avoid the need for its usage as much as possible.tristiancliffe-
Honestly, I was really looking forward to your opinion. I've been lurking on the fourms for a while, and you've shown a rather impressive ability to justify what you say with reasons, factual and logical. As for what you said, it'll be a new car so I don't have to worry too much about previous owner's miscare for the car.
Also, about the braking, is there some sort of 'give zone' in the brake where the lights will come on, but the brakes won't be engauged yet? Is it possible to add something similar? On my bike, I usually engine brake and just lightly tap my rear brake (slowly applying more and more pressure as I slow down, releasing right before I stop) for the sole purpose of brake lights.
And about engine braking... Is it better for the wear to engine brake without any brake use, or brake without any engine brake use (clutch pressed or car in neutral). I suspect a moderation of the two would be the ideal match, but I was curious as to which was 'better' for the car.
z3r0c00l-
As much fun as that sounds, I don't have a place to do any sort of work on my car, nor do I have the nessisary tools to do it right. My parent's garage is filled with... stuff... lots of stuff (what is it with us Americans using garages to store stuff rather than storing cars? Is that a US weirdo thing, or is it global?). And yes, I have to do it in my garage rather than outside. Its too hot to work outside for long periods of time
, and my garage is air conditioned.Also, the manual will tell me where everything is, where everything goes, but not how to fix anything, so I need a teacher as well
. Maybe in the future, but for now, I'm stuck with the overtime and paying someone else to fix it.pb32000-
The goal isn't to make everything last as long as possible, it is to keep the car in prime shape without replacing everything or leaving it sitting by learning how to take care of it in the mean time, so when I do autocross, I can get it's best performance.
Vain-
Uh oh. It rains almost -all- the time where I live. Seriously, they call Florida the sunshine state, and we get insane levels of rain. I think I read somewhere that florida has a historical rainfall level ranging from 34 inches to 89 inches (just to show that our state can't make up it's mind). I might be able to park it in the garage (if I get it cleaned before December), but thats not very likely. Plus, most parking lots are in the open, and I'll probably drive in the rain a lot... Is there something that can minimize the effect of rain on the car?
As far as the tires, I'm probably going to keep the OME tires on the car, because thats just what I do. I might invest more money in the future on better tires, but I doubt I'll change the size.
Transmission... You said a lot, how do I know if it is or isn't made for fast performance shifting? Is there some way to tell?
The power steering thing I didn't know, Thanks!
wheel4hummer-
Me too. I spend a good deal of my time in the car muttering about how stupid people are, tapping their brakes going down a road just because someone 10-15 car lengths ahead of them changed lanes.
STROBE-
I belive what tristian was saying, was not 'don't use the brakes', but rather, 'use the brakes with meaning'. Tapping, or applying a feather's weight in force, would cause the brakes to perform less well when you need them. But its good advice none-the-less.
herki-
Ohh... gearbox oil. That never crossed my mind. Going to look into that right now.
Thanks
I just wanted to say that, as I'm actually heading out the door right now (Labor Day festivities! Yay?), so I'll have to post a more indepth reply later (or, if no-one else replies, edit this one).
Just one other thing before I go
I don't really expect it to last forever. I'm not that delusional (maybe...), heh. However, my goal was to learn how to treat my car 'right' so that when I roll it over to autocross, I don't have parts dropping out of my undercarrage. I figure if I'm going to push it hard once in a while, I might as well treat it to good care the rest of it's time.
And its going to be a new car, thus, with a dealer warrenty (I saw a few comments on used cars). I was going more along the lines of after said warrenty expires (or becomes invalid because I forgot to read the fine print and did something stupid).
A quick comment on the 3,000 miles thing... Really? My old car (the PT Cruiser) has, in the almost six years I've had it, 80,000 miles on it, and its gotten to the point where things break on a regular basis (actually, right now under brakage, I hear periodic rubbing from them in what seems to be timed with my wheel spins. I think it might be my rotor?). For example, my air just had to be fixed, twice, for two diffrent reasons, about a month ago. But I live in florida, so dang it, I want my air to work!
Brakes... That reminds me...
Performance braking aside, what about, er, economy braking I guess? What sort of braking habbits will keep my brake pads for wearing out too quicky (an issue I've had as long as I've been driving)?
I just wanted to say that, as I'm actually heading out the door right now (Labor Day festivities! Yay?), so I'll have to post a more indepth reply later (or, if no-one else replies, edit this one).
Just one other thing before I go
I don't really expect it to last forever. I'm not that delusional (maybe...), heh. However, my goal was to learn how to treat my car 'right' so that when I roll it over to autocross, I don't have parts dropping out of my undercarrage. I figure if I'm going to push it hard once in a while, I might as well treat it to good care the rest of it's time.
And its going to be a new car, thus, with a dealer warrenty (I saw a few comments on used cars). I was going more along the lines of after said warrenty expires (or becomes invalid because I forgot to read the fine print and did something stupid).
A quick comment on the 3,000 miles thing... Really? My old car (the PT Cruiser) has, in the almost six years I've had it, 80,000 miles on it, and its gotten to the point where things break on a regular basis (actually, right now under brakage, I hear periodic rubbing from them in what seems to be timed with my wheel spins. I think it might be my rotor?). For example, my air just had to be fixed, twice, for two diffrent reasons, about a month ago. But I live in florida, so dang it, I want my air to work!
Brakes... That reminds me...
Performance braking aside, what about, er, economy braking I guess? What sort of braking habbits will keep my brake pads for wearing out too quicky (an issue I've had as long as I've been driving)?
Proper Automotive Care
Greetings ! (Man that sounds cheesy....)
In the near future (It is looking to be december-ish) I am taking a rather large step (for myself) in my life. I plan on purchasing my very first car! Now, this isn't to say that its the first car I've ever been in. I've driven a large variety of vehicles (everyone in my family has diffrent tastes), from RWD Trucks to FWD coupes and sedans, motorbikes (Harley Davidson), New cars, older cars, Automatics, Manuels...
However, this will be the first car that, essentually, is mine. And I'm feeling very... enthusiastic about that prospect! However, I am very aware that cars themselves don't last forever. Their parts wear down, things get old and need to be replaced, and eventually it will reach a point where it looks nicer than it runs.
Thus, in order to ensure my car has a wonderful, long lasting life, I have come to you all for advice! It is my hopes that someone out there knows enough about car engines, either from lots of research, from fixing them, or even building them, that they'll be able to give me the advice that I need... Now, it has taken me long enough to get to my final question, so I think I'll make a beeline for it right now.
What can I do, from driving style changes, to maintance, to anything and everything inbetween and beyond, to keep my car long lived? Now, my reason for this (beyond the obvious financial) is that I plan on my car partisipating in motorsport events. Probably nothing more serious than autocross, but it is still a motorsport event that will put a good deal of strain on my car. In order to ensure that the car and it's parts within are in top enough shape that nothing will break on me without notice, I want to know what I can do in the meantime to ensure the wear is greatly reduced on the car's parts.
For a more indepth breakdown of what I'm asking...
Tires-
Obviously, stomping on the accelerator isn't good for them. Obviously yanking the wheel so hard that I understeer isn't good for them. The question is, beyond the obvious, is there anything I can do to ensure longer treadlife for my tires? Things in reguard to: Road conditions (avoid the potholes!), weather conditions (special considerations for rainy weather? How about windy?), and general driving habbits I suspect might be a good start...
Suspension-
In the car I learned to drive in, and still drive in to this day... Well, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the way I drive, but I've had to have two suspension parts replaced since Jan of 2001 (when we got the car). I can't remember what either was, but I remember the first had to deal with the steering (Grr... I should remember what that was called). Is there anything that can be done in terms of driving style and the like that could ensure my suspension stays healthy? Aside from avoiding hitting things like potholes and curbs, what else can be done to help ensure that when I take it to an autocross event, something won't already be nearly worn out from mear road driving? (I know that its never 100% sure NOT to fail on me, but my goal is to ensure that the odds are as much in my favor as is under my control)
Engine & Transmission-
Now, here is probably where me, as the driver, has a bit more overall effect on how it lasts. It, sadly enough, is also the area I'm the most fuzzy on whats good an whats bad. The red line is bad, I know that. Getting to the redline isn't quite as bad, as long as I don't hover right under it for long amounts of time. Obviously, every car is diffrent as to where the RPMs should hover around (I think), so rather than specific advice of any sort, I'm fishing for guidelines here... Would it be better to keep the RPMs as low as possible (without lugging or stalling the engine)? Or is there an ideal range (The Torque band maybe? Would that also help with fuel effeciency in any way?)? Er, worth mention, I'm talking about a manual transmission, with the good ol' H-Stick and Clutch.
Maintance-
Regular maintance is a given, I suspect. But a few questions about that... Every 3,000 miles is when I bring my current car is. Is that already pushing it? What if I brought it in in less? Or is that already well in the safe zone, assuming people will double or even triple that without thought? Should I bring it to the Dealership's garage, and swallow their higher prices for assurance that they have access to everything they need to know about the car?
I realize that changes to my driving style will probably be very difficult to change, which is why I'm seeking advice several months before I get the car. This way, I can try to adapt the changes with my current car. Then, when I change to my new car (which will be radically diffrent in... everything), because I'll have to 'learn' to drive all over again, I can ensure that I incorperate my adjusted habbits to ensure the car a long and healthy life .
A few notes that, I suspect, are worth mention:
I live in South Florida. This means my climate is often in the 85 to 100º F tempature range (29.4-37.8º C). Also, the weather year round is a mix between intensive sunlight, and lots and lots of rain (So its very humid mostly year round). I live about 9 miles (I just messured. Yay for google earth ) from the shore line, if that matters at all. Also, living in a state which is essentually flat, wind can be pretty strong (I once saw a line of side-by-side cars all thrown a lane to the right in the middle of a highway. Then again, that was right before a hurricane...).
My current car is a 2001 Chrystler PT Cruiser, which is a FWD Automatic blue hunk of metal I've probably done more damage to than I realize, seeing as it is what I drove as I learned to drive (and I dare say my Adolesent nature did more damage to it that I realize. I'm 19 now, so I ran through that period of "I'm better than everyone else" as I floored it everywhere I went, weaving through traffic).
The new car will be a Manual transmission, RWD, and I'm not going to say which car it is. Kinda embarrashed about that...
Anyways.... Thank you very much for reading my insanely long post. I hope someone out there has some advice for me! Perhaps someone else will read it too, and maybe, just maybe, there will be a few cars that last a few years longer than they would have otherwise...
! (Man that sounds cheesy....)In the near future (It is looking to be december-ish) I am taking a rather large step (for myself) in my life. I plan on purchasing my very first car! Now, this isn't to say that its the first car I've ever been in. I've driven a large variety of vehicles (everyone in my family has diffrent tastes), from RWD Trucks to FWD coupes and sedans, motorbikes (Harley Davidson), New cars, older cars, Automatics, Manuels...
However, this will be the first car that, essentually, is mine. And I'm feeling very... enthusiastic about that prospect! However, I am very aware that cars themselves don't last forever. Their parts wear down, things get old and need to be replaced, and eventually it will reach a point where it looks nicer than it runs.
Thus, in order to ensure my car has a wonderful, long lasting life, I have come to you all for advice! It is my hopes that someone out there knows enough about car engines, either from lots of research, from fixing them, or even building them, that they'll be able to give me the advice that I need... Now, it has taken me long enough to get to my final question, so I think I'll make a beeline for it right now.
What can I do, from driving style changes, to maintance, to anything and everything inbetween and beyond, to keep my car long lived? Now, my reason for this (beyond the obvious financial) is that I plan on my car partisipating in motorsport events. Probably nothing more serious than autocross, but it is still a motorsport event that will put a good deal of strain on my car. In order to ensure that the car and it's parts within are in top enough shape that nothing will break on me without notice, I want to know what I can do in the meantime to ensure the wear is greatly reduced on the car's parts.
For a more indepth breakdown of what I'm asking...
Tires-
Obviously, stomping on the accelerator isn't good for them. Obviously yanking the wheel so hard that I understeer isn't good for them. The question is, beyond the obvious, is there anything I can do to ensure longer treadlife for my tires? Things in reguard to: Road conditions (avoid the potholes!), weather conditions (special considerations for rainy weather? How about windy?), and general driving habbits I suspect might be a good start...
Suspension-
In the car I learned to drive in, and still drive in to this day... Well, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the way I drive, but I've had to have two suspension parts replaced since Jan of 2001 (when we got the car). I can't remember what either was, but I remember the first had to deal with the steering (Grr... I should remember what that was called). Is there anything that can be done in terms of driving style and the like that could ensure my suspension stays healthy? Aside from avoiding hitting things like potholes and curbs, what else can be done to help ensure that when I take it to an autocross event, something won't already be nearly worn out from mear road driving? (I know that its never 100% sure NOT to fail on me, but my goal is to ensure that the odds are as much in my favor as is under my control)
Engine & Transmission-
Now, here is probably where me, as the driver, has a bit more overall effect on how it lasts. It, sadly enough, is also the area I'm the most fuzzy on whats good an whats bad. The red line is bad, I know that. Getting to the redline isn't quite as bad, as long as I don't hover right under it for long amounts of time. Obviously, every car is diffrent as to where the RPMs should hover around (I think), so rather than specific advice of any sort, I'm fishing for guidelines here... Would it be better to keep the RPMs as low as possible (without lugging or stalling the engine)? Or is there an ideal range (The Torque band maybe? Would that also help with fuel effeciency in any way?)? Er, worth mention, I'm talking about a manual transmission, with the good ol' H-Stick and Clutch.
Maintance-
Regular maintance is a given, I suspect. But a few questions about that... Every 3,000 miles is when I bring my current car is. Is that already pushing it? What if I brought it in in less? Or is that already well in the safe zone, assuming people will double or even triple that without thought? Should I bring it to the Dealership's garage, and swallow their higher prices for assurance that they have access to everything they need to know about the car?
I realize that changes to my driving style will probably be very difficult to change, which is why I'm seeking advice several months before I get the car. This way, I can try to adapt the changes with my current car. Then, when I change to my new car (which will be radically diffrent in... everything), because I'll have to 'learn' to drive all over again, I can ensure that I incorperate my adjusted habbits to ensure the car a long and healthy life
.A few notes that, I suspect, are worth mention:
I live in South Florida. This means my climate is often in the 85 to 100º F tempature range (29.4-37.8º C). Also, the weather year round is a mix between intensive sunlight, and lots and lots of rain (So its very humid mostly year round). I live about 9 miles (I just messured. Yay for google earth
) from the shore line, if that matters at all. Also, living in a state which is essentually flat, wind can be pretty strong (I once saw a line of side-by-side cars all thrown a lane to the right in the middle of a highway. Then again, that was right before a hurricane...).My current car is a 2001 Chrystler PT Cruiser, which is a FWD Automatic blue hunk of metal I've probably done more damage to than I realize, seeing as it is what I drove as I learned to drive (and I dare say my Adolesent nature did more damage to it that I realize. I'm 19 now, so I ran through that period of "I'm better than everyone else" as I floored it everywhere I went, weaving through traffic).
The new car will be a Manual transmission, RWD, and I'm not going to say which car it is. Kinda embarrashed about that...
Anyways.... Thank you very much for reading my insanely long post. I hope someone out there has some advice for me! Perhaps someone else will read it too, and maybe, just maybe, there will be a few cars that last a few years longer than they would have otherwise...
Bufalo,
Also, I know more than one person was iffy about the lack of a source about the news if the shifter had been fixed...
Have you ever driven a manual transmission in real life? If so, how does it compare?
If not, how well can you describe how it 'feels'?
Does it bounce back to between 3rd and 4th gear if you put it in neutral and let it go? Does it feel easy to slide it into gear, or do you have to fight it? Can you really easily accidently bump the shifter and have it go -out- of gear? What about the springs? (Incase you're wondering, a few early product demonstrations were done for user feedback and improvements. One of the big complaints was the shifter and these issues. Though they were not production models (meaning they could sitll make improvements), I don't recall seeing any actual, official, word that they had adjusted the shifter. I'm just reall curious )
Man, I can't wait until October... I accidently broke my Black Momo when I was working around the house, and I yanked the USB wire out of it's housing (so much that I can see the four colored wires and their copper ends). Rather than replace it, I'm focusing on skinning and the like for the moment, and buying the G25 when it comes out.
And the best part? My birthday is in October! Woop! And I should have my S2 license between now and then, so come the G25, all will be good.
Also, I know more than one person was iffy about the lack of a source about the news if the shifter had been fixed...
Have you ever driven a manual transmission in real life? If so, how does it compare?
If not, how well can you describe how it 'feels'?
Does it bounce back to between 3rd and 4th gear if you put it in neutral and let it go? Does it feel easy to slide it into gear, or do you have to fight it? Can you really easily accidently bump the shifter and have it go -out- of gear? What about the springs? (Incase you're wondering, a few early product demonstrations were done for user feedback and improvements. One of the big complaints was the shifter and these issues. Though they were not production models (meaning they could sitll make improvements), I don't recall seeing any actual, official, word that they had adjusted the shifter. I'm just reall curious
)Man, I can't wait until October... I accidently broke my Black Momo when I was working around the house, and I yanked the USB wire out of it's housing (so much that I can see the four colored wires and their copper ends). Rather than replace it, I'm focusing on skinning and the like for the moment, and buying the G25 when it comes out.
And the best part? My birthday is in October! Woop! And I should have my S2 license between now and then, so come the G25, all will be good.
We've stepped out of the area where I can answer questions, but I have one more that deals with clairification...
3. When reversing should the wheel go to full lock when only slightly turning the wheel? Seen the pattern? Yeah, mine does this too.
Curious, when you say this, what do you mean?
I see a few ways this can be taken. One of which is bad, one of which should happen...
Situation A -
Lets assume you've a 270º wheel (although it doesn't matter if its 270 or 900). You turn the physical wheel, say, 10 degrees, and in game the wheels are full lock. This is, weird...
Situation B -
Same assumption. You apply gas (in reverse), turn the wheel 5º, let go of the wheel. As the car rolls, the wheel continues to rotate until it reaches full lock.
This -should- happen. It happens in real life with real cars too. The front tires want to continue in a straight line, so they continue to turn to produce that straight line until they reach full lock, where they can't turn anymore and they have to deal with it.
3. When reversing should the wheel go to full lock when only slightly turning the wheel? Seen the pattern? Yeah, mine does this too.
Curious, when you say this, what do you mean?
I see a few ways this can be taken. One of which is bad, one of which should happen...
Situation A -
Lets assume you've a 270º wheel (although it doesn't matter if its 270 or 900). You turn the physical wheel, say, 10 degrees, and in game the wheels are full lock. This is, weird...
Situation B -
Same assumption. You apply gas (in reverse), turn the wheel 5º, let go of the wheel. As the car rolls, the wheel continues to rotate until it reaches full lock.
This -should- happen. It happens in real life with real cars too. The front tires want to continue in a straight line, so they continue to turn to produce that straight line until they reach full lock, where they can't turn anymore and they have to deal with it.
Yes, I know Hallen already answered, but I have my own points to add
The game generates a variety of forces depending on in-game conditions, however, I'm quite sure you should still notice a diffrence when between those settings. I know I do. If I turn my FFB too high, my wheel often kicks so hard that it almost yanks out of my hand, where-as on a more normal 60-100% range, it is manageable.
However, I think the effect you're describing is dampening (meaning, the FFB level wouldn't matter as much as the dampening level)... What wheel do you have?
Hallen talked about understeer. In oversteer, yes, you should lose resistance, and here is why: When you oversteer, your front tires want to point in the direction inertia is carrying the car. That happens to be the same direction you're countersteering into (usually ). Now, if your FFB motor is turning the wheel left (to simulate this pull), and so are you (to save your car from crashing) you'll feel a lot less resistance when turning.
If you're in a Rear-wheel Drive car, going at moderate-high (above twenty Miles per hour) speeds makes the car VERY touchy. The slight turn of the wheel will more than likely cause the car to 'snap' into a full turn, often winding up in a 180 degree turn (which is why J-turns are so easy to perform). Try going in reverse at, say, 5 miles per hour. The 'snap' to full lock should go away (but it will still tug. How much depends on your FFB setting).
Without canned air? I use an air compressor for all my cleaning needs, but without that either, I would take a static free dust rag of some sort (I think they make them for moniters) and give it a wipe down.
Thats a... moderatly complex physics issue. Actually, your drive wheels are slipping under brakage. They haven't 'locked up' yet, as in they're still turning, but they're turning slower than the car is moving (thus a sharp drop in revs). This is because the engine and driveshaft keep the wheels spinning, but braking has slowed them down enough that they're actually sliding across the pavement. However, that being said, -all- your revs shouldn't go away. It should be a slow, steady, decrease in revs, and if you're downshifting as well as braking, the revs shouldn't drop that low.
Oh, and a note on the slipage while braking, I hear that its the most efficient way to apply stopping power... Someone might correct me on that, but it might not be a bad thing!
The game generates a variety of forces depending on in-game conditions, however, I'm quite sure you should still notice a diffrence when between those settings. I know I do. If I turn my FFB too high, my wheel often kicks so hard that it almost yanks out of my hand, where-as on a more normal 60-100% range, it is manageable.
However, I think the effect you're describing is dampening (meaning, the FFB level wouldn't matter as much as the dampening level)... What wheel do you have?
Hallen talked about understeer. In oversteer, yes, you should lose resistance, and here is why: When you oversteer, your front tires want to point in the direction inertia is carrying the car. That happens to be the same direction you're countersteering into (usually
). Now, if your FFB motor is turning the wheel left (to simulate this pull), and so are you (to save your car from crashing) you'll feel a lot less resistance when turning.If you're in a Rear-wheel Drive car, going at moderate-high (above twenty Miles per hour) speeds makes the car VERY touchy. The slight turn of the wheel will more than likely cause the car to 'snap' into a full turn, often winding up in a 180 degree turn (which is why J-turns are so easy to perform). Try going in reverse at, say, 5 miles per hour. The 'snap' to full lock should go away (but it will still tug. How much depends on your FFB setting).
Without canned air? I use an air compressor for all my cleaning needs, but without that either, I would take a static free dust rag of some sort (I think they make them for moniters) and give it a wipe down.
Thats a... moderatly complex physics issue. Actually, your drive wheels are slipping under brakage. They haven't 'locked up' yet, as in they're still turning, but they're turning slower than the car is moving (thus a sharp drop in revs). This is because the engine and driveshaft keep the wheels spinning, but braking has slowed them down enough that they're actually sliding across the pavement. However, that being said, -all- your revs shouldn't go away. It should be a slow, steady, decrease in revs, and if you're downshifting as well as braking, the revs shouldn't drop that low.
Oh, and a note on the slipage while braking, I hear that its the most efficient way to apply stopping power... Someone might correct me on that, but it might not be a bad thing!
Aside from acceration out of the pits, don't most NASCAR racing cars spend all their time in top gear? Why add more gears, and thus, more weight, and thus, less speed, when you wouldn't really use them? Remember, shifting gears slows down the car because, even for a split second, you're essentually in neutral!
As far as NASCAR style cars in LFS... I don't get a vote cause I'm a demo-er I guess, but I don't think I'd race it (when I get S2!). So no +1 from me. No -1 though, because what do I care if the game has features I won't use?
I'm e-mail-less (what a word
). More specificly, I never got an e-mail reply... I signed up using the little form sending thingy in the link (This link) if that helps... I also commented in the fourms on your website . Anywho, if you need me too, I'll just resend the application through a more prefered means....(Oh, and because I didn't mention it, my E-Mail is [email protected]...)
EDIT!!!!
I found it... Heh. It was burried in a pile of mail I got that I marked as spam in one feel swoop. Woops.
Last edited by Shinrar, .
Reason : Found it =)
Heh. I was playing RPGs with a bunch of friends online, and one of my really good friends from Finland and I started talking about diffrent other games that she enjoyed. With real life, I find little money available to throw around for games, so I usually either don't, or get good advice on what titles are 'worth it'.
She mentioned LFS, and I inquired what it ment. I was interested, so I went into my closet, dug out my Momo, set it all up, and installed it.
Since then, when I'm not racing, I'm thinking about racing. Its even rekindled my interest to bring my own car to the track, although thats always been hindered by the fact that its an hour and fifteen minutes away from where I live . Hrm... OT: Would anyone consider LFS realistic enough in it's Alpha stages to be worthy of 'training' myself to take lines? That, I hear, is often the hardest part about adapting a car you know real well to the track (having driven it for five years gives me a sense of braking points and understeer/oversteer, but you can't really practice lines on the streets)... But then again, what I hear and whats true are often not the same thing 
.
~Shinrar, The Demo (Soon to be S2 within the week!) user
She mentioned LFS, and I inquired what it ment
. I was interested, so I went into my closet, dug out my Momo, set it all up, and installed it. Since then, when I'm not racing, I'm thinking about racing. Its even rekindled my interest to bring my own car to the track, although thats always been hindered by the fact that its an hour and fifteen minutes away from where I live
. Hrm... OT: Would anyone consider LFS realistic enough in it's Alpha stages to be worthy of 'training' myself to take lines? That, I hear, is often the hardest part about adapting a car you know real well to the track (having driven it for five years gives me a sense of braking points and understeer/oversteer, but you can't really practice lines on the streets)... But then again, what I hear and whats true are often not the same thing .~Shinrar, The Demo (Soon to be S2 within the week!) user
Sorry, I don't have a video for you... But I know it works, if thats what you're asking. I've seen a couple of evenly matched cars draft each other to pass the other in a vid somewhere, but not the BF1...
Also, as far as the shifter goes, with one of the test patches (U11) the H-Gear shift switches automaticly to the sequential shifter (see http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=9869 for details).
Also, as far as the shifter goes, with one of the test patches (U11) the H-Gear shift switches automaticly to the sequential shifter (see http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=9869 for details).
Heya people! About... Oh, two, maybe three weeks ago I downloaded LFS because of a discussion a friend and I were having. She mentioned that its the most realistic simulator ever, and I figured if nothing else, I could have some fun playing the demo...
So I just lost 2-3 weeks of my life
Its an amazing experience to say nothing else, and when I get paid (shortly), the first thing I plan to do is purchase S2
So here I am to say Greetings to all the racers I'll soon to see, hopefully long enough to read their bumper stickers before they pull away!
Just a few curious questions... Do more experienced racers ever consider taking on Rookies for a bit of education? I always figured someone who's used to seeing another's style, so know how they drive, would be a better instructor than getting random advice from posting a few replays and asking "How do I improve my laptimes?". But then again, what do I know? Also, I'm pretty sure experiences vary, but as a general note, how helpful are teams for rookie drivers? Or teams in general? Is it common practice to switch teams a lot as you get better (from rookie teams to bigger name teams), or just drive solo until a team you like extends a hand of membership and racing education?
Oh, and Hi again!
So I just lost 2-3 weeks of my life
Its an amazing experience to say nothing else, and when I get paid (shortly), the first thing I plan to do is purchase S2
So here I am to say Greetings to all the racers I'll soon to see, hopefully long enough to read their bumper stickers before they pull away!
Just a few curious questions... Do more experienced racers ever consider taking on Rookies for a bit of education? I always figured someone who's used to seeing another's style, so know how they drive, would be a better instructor than getting random advice from posting a few replays and asking "How do I improve my laptimes?". But then again, what do I know? Also, I'm pretty sure experiences vary, but as a general note, how helpful are teams for rookie drivers? Or teams in general? Is it common practice to switch teams a lot as you get better (from rookie teams to bigger name teams), or just drive solo until a team you like extends a hand of membership and racing education?
Oh, and Hi again!
Wasn't the hard-drive spinning up (checked that).
Wasn't my wheel. Wasn't my drivers (I updated everything and it still happened).
And then I tried something that... well... I just hadn't though of before. I turned all the details as low as I could. Just flatlined everything and turned as much as I could off. Not sure why I had the urge to do it, but I did it. I think it may have had something to do with the fact that I just didn't care at the moment how 'pretty' it looked.
So I ran some practice laps. Lap after lap. After lap.
And then I realized...
It went away...
So I started an actual race (against the silly AI). 10 minutes of qualification. 20 laps of race. Didn't happen once....
So I guess my problem was a detail setting somewhere that didn't agree with my computer. My options at this point are: Experiment to see what single option did it, or just leave it all bottomed out...
I think I am going for option two for a while =D. Now just got to wait until payday, and the LFS License shall be mine!
Wasn't my wheel. Wasn't my drivers (I updated everything and it still happened).
And then I tried something that... well... I just hadn't though of before. I turned all the details as low as I could. Just flatlined everything and turned as much as I could off. Not sure why I had the urge to do it
, but I did it. I think it may have had something to do with the fact that I just didn't care at the moment how 'pretty' it looked. So I ran some practice laps. Lap after lap. After lap.
And then I realized...
It went away...
So I started an actual race (against the silly AI). 10 minutes of qualification. 20 laps of race. Didn't happen once....
So I guess my problem was a detail setting somewhere that didn't agree with my computer. My options at this point are: Experiment to see what single option did it, or just leave it all bottomed out...
I think I am going for option two for a while =D. Now just got to wait until payday, and the LFS License shall be mine!
Interesting... I'll try looking into that as well. I'm pretty sure (mostly because I just checked ) that my PC is already set to never turn my hard drives off. But I'll run it on Mute this time, prop my CPU on my desk, and plant my ear against it (its a lot of casing so I usually don't hear anything inside other than my fans).
Heres to the best of luck to discovering the origin of my problems! *raises a glass*
) that my PC is already set to never turn my hard drives off. But I'll run it on Mute this time, prop my CPU on my desk, and plant my ear against it (its a lot of casing so I usually don't hear anything inside other than my fans).Heres to the best of luck to discovering the origin of my problems! *raises a glass*
Okay, that didn't work as planned...
So I got up this morning and hopped on my Desktop to update my drivers... Starting with the Motherboard driver. A good hour later, it dawned on me.
I have no idea what I'm doing. Because I know things like this are very computer specific (or maybe I'm wrong again :shrug would anyone be willing to walk me through it? I can be contacted via E-Mail, ICQ, MSN Messanger, YIM, AIM, and G-Talk (Google Talk. I think). Luckly, having a laptop and a PC, I can talk to you while the computer does what it needs to do without the possibility of restart interfearing with communication. If you'd be willing to help me out, PM me please! I'll try to be as quick and possible to use up as little of your LFS time as possible. Heh.
In the mean while, I'm going to try the 'run without a wheel to see if thats causing it' approach.
Many thanks to everyone who took the time to read my problem, and more thanks to anyone willing to work with me so that I can play online without having to worry about freezeing up and causing a wreck.
So I got up this morning and hopped on my Desktop to update my drivers... Starting with the Motherboard driver. A good hour later, it dawned on me.
I have no idea what I'm doing
. Because I know things like this are very computer specific (or maybe I'm wrong again :shrug would anyone be willing to walk me through it? I can be contacted via E-Mail, ICQ, MSN Messanger, YIM, AIM, and G-Talk (Google Talk. I think). Luckly, having a laptop and a PC, I can talk to you while the computer does what it needs to do without the possibility of restart interfearing with communication. If you'd be willing to help me out, PM me please! I'll try to be as quick and possible to use up as little of your LFS time as possible. Heh.In the mean while, I'm going to try the 'run without a wheel to see if thats causing it' approach.
Many thanks to everyone who took the time to read my problem, and more thanks to anyone willing to work with me so that I can play online without having to worry about freezeing up and causing a wreck
.By my hand, nope. Its all pretty much right out of the box (the .59 is from the computer report itself. The sticker on the case says its a 2.60 GHz Processor with 512 MB of RAM, but I knew those weren't the actual figures). I considered over the years Overclocking, but decided against it. Usually I can run anything I need to on it with the occasional small exception (Sims2, for example. Thats why I bought a new video card)... Hrrm.... You know....
Speaking of the video card. It doesn't say it on the hardware information in the game, but I just recalled back when I bought it, it had "OC" on the end of it's long name. If I had the box, I could quote word for word... But iirc its something like "safely overclocked at the factory to give you the most of your gaming experience without voiding your warrenty!".
Honestly? I just thought that was a marketing ploy and paid little attention it it. I do hope thats not my problem. =\
I guess its possible. It does happen more frequently the longer it runs. I guess no amount of room climate control (placing the CPU right under the AC duct, turning on the fan) can negate the fact that I live in a state where 90 is a 'cool' tempature. Go figure. Anyway I can check the PC's Tempature? Or the Graphics Card's tempature? I know the Card has a fan attached to it too... But hey, there is always more cooling options (namely, move my CPU into my other room. Closer to the central AC duct, and better insulation. Makes for a cooler room). But I'd like to somehow see if the tempature is whats doing it before I go moving it.
Not sure, I'll get right on that now. Though I'm going to try and be more careful... When it first happened, I tried to update my driver for my graphics card using windows device manager. Windows found an older version and installed it, and my video output died =D. I was able to fix it (the drivers that it came with were still on the CD), but it was potentially disaterous.
Graphics, Checked (with interesting results, see above). Game Controller, Check (first thing I did when I undusted my wheel. I had to reinstall it from the website cause I no longer had a CD). The rest I'll get right on (along with the Mother Board)
Wheel (MOMO Logitech, with pedals!). I'll try without it... If its faulty, I'll just get a new one ^.^ I've been eyeballing that H-Stick pretty hard from Act-Labs. Perfect excuse to get it (my wheel is faulty!). Maybe I'll grab a wheel with more than 270 degrees of turning too. Ohhh... And pedals with a clutch.
Thanks for the help. I'll repost shortly with the results...
Problem update. I was reading the technical help forums again in hope that someone might reply, or have a similar problem, and I found a peice of advice I tried. Someone suggested using process explorer to discover what kept causing LFS to hickup (which program in the background). Figuring I had nothing to use, I tried it, ran laps until it 'froze up' again, and Alt-Tabed to the process explorer. For the most part, LFS was using 60-70% of my CPU speed. THen for the time it froze, there was a spike in usage that peaked at 100% and stayed pretty high, then dropped back down. The instant it caught up, the Deferred Procedure Calls (DPCs) peaked to 50% for a second or two before dropping back down to near zero.
So best as I can tell, something with my settings is causing LFS to occasionally attempt to do more than the CPU can handle. As thus, the game stops outputting signals until it catches up...
Also, I've tried in Multi Player on a demo server (my word, those things are like auto-racing nightmares come true), and I didn't manage to get a full lap in (partially because I couldn't go very long before the guy running laps backwards hit me, and partially because its difficult to predict where the 'drifters' will be next (as most of them had no control period) so I could pass them. But it froze up there too.
Additionally, I've had it happen while my tires are skidding now. Its definatly a 'looping' audio track while I freezes. And the force feedback continues to 'force' in the last direction it was told (say, it'll keep pushing left until it wheel locks if I was oversteering in a right hand turn).
Maybe the additional information will help someone brainstorm up a solution. I'm clueless...
So best as I can tell, something with my settings is causing LFS to occasionally attempt to do more than the CPU can handle. As thus, the game stops outputting signals until it catches up...
Also, I've tried in Multi Player on a demo server (my word, those things are like auto-racing nightmares come true), and I didn't manage to get a full lap in (partially because I couldn't go very long before the guy running laps backwards hit me, and partially because its difficult to predict where the 'drifters' will be next (as most of them had no control period) so I could pass them. But it froze up there too.
Additionally, I've had it happen while my tires are skidding now. Its definatly a 'looping' audio track while I freezes. And the force feedback continues to 'force' in the last direction it was told (say, it'll keep pushing left until it wheel locks if I was oversteering in a right hand turn).
Maybe the additional information will help someone brainstorm up a solution. I'm clueless...
Last edited by Shinrar, .
Game output freezes, but continues to run...
I've done some searching on both this forum (Technical Assistance) and Bugs, but I can't find a situation that seems to resemble my problem. The closest I have found are things like shutters (often, every 4.5 seconds), which isn't really what I have...
So far, I've only run in Single Player (to get a feel for the cars), because with this issue, I'm thinking Multiplayer would be difficult to run (probably also wreck other people...). It happens in training, it happens in Single player races with just me, with me and AI, and with just the AI running by itself.
The best I can tell, at random intervals for... 10-15 seconds, all output from the game freezes. My screen stays frozen in place, my audio freezes (it doesn't really loop, but it sounds like the engine is running on a constant level. However, I've yet to have it happen with another sound [say, a skid] so I'm not sure if that would repeat as well), and my force feedback kills to zero. The game, however, continues to run in real time. When the 'freeze' is over, the game catches up, having accepted any input I gave it while driving (example include, slamming on the brake, or once I tried to follow the course... Didn't work ). In replay mode, during the moments I 'froze', the game continues as normal, so I can see what happened when my output ceased to update. However, even DURING replay, I'll have the occasional output freeze just like while in game.
As far as how often it happens, it seems pretty random, yet consistantly there. I've never run more than a single lap without it occuring, but sometimes I'll get a whole lap in, sometimes it will happen again before I turn my car back around to face the right direction (facing wrong direction is the not so nice park about simply 'yanking' the hand-brake). As far as my computer goes....
Pentium 4 (Intel) - 2.59 GHz, '504' MB of Ram
Windows XP Home Edition Version 2002, Service Pack 2
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500 (Driver Date: 11/4/2005, Version 8.1.9.4)
(Not sure what other specs are 'handy' to have....)
Everything but the graphics card came with the PC. I've never had this issue with any other games, yet with LFS its happened since start up. This seems to be like a problem on my end, rather than a bug, which is why I choose this forum to inquire if anyone could offer a helping hand with solving it =D
I've tried to close all background programs, didn't help. I tried to restart, didn't help. I tried letting the computer sit off all day, and half the night, and tried at 1am incase it was a tempeture issue (I live in Florida
). Didn't help.
For a few years now, I've been getting more and more involved with cars, but racing is an issue for me. The closest track is an hour and a half away, and I'd make the drive if I had a car that wouldn't embarrass me to show up with on the track (having only saved 4/5ths of the money for my 'new' car, and currently behind the wheel of a 2001 PT Cruiser. Ha, try being taken seriously in one of those ). When I heard about how 'realistic' LFS was from a friend, I decided to give the demo a try. I was very happy, until I realized the problem I was facing wouldn't go away.... I'd love to support the game by shelling out some money for it, but not if this problem won't go away. Its impossible to play multiplayer with it, and that kills most of the fun
So far, I've only run in Single Player (to get a feel for the cars), because with this issue, I'm thinking Multiplayer would be difficult to run (probably also wreck other people...). It happens in training, it happens in Single player races with just me, with me and AI, and with just the AI running by itself.
The best I can tell, at random intervals for... 10-15 seconds, all output from the game freezes. My screen stays frozen in place, my audio freezes (it doesn't really loop, but it sounds like the engine is running on a constant level. However, I've yet to have it happen with another sound [say, a skid] so I'm not sure if that would repeat as well), and my force feedback kills to zero. The game, however, continues to run in real time. When the 'freeze' is over, the game catches up, having accepted any input I gave it while driving (example include, slamming on the brake, or once I tried to follow the course... Didn't work
). In replay mode, during the moments I 'froze', the game continues as normal, so I can see what happened when my output ceased to update. However, even DURING replay, I'll have the occasional output freeze just like while in game.As far as how often it happens, it seems pretty random, yet consistantly there. I've never run more than a single lap without it occuring, but sometimes I'll get a whole lap in, sometimes it will happen again before I turn my car back around to face the right direction (facing wrong direction is the not so nice park about simply 'yanking' the hand-brake). As far as my computer goes....
Pentium 4 (Intel) - 2.59 GHz, '504' MB of Ram
Windows XP Home Edition Version 2002, Service Pack 2
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500 (Driver Date: 11/4/2005, Version 8.1.9.4)
(Not sure what other specs are 'handy' to have....)
Everything but the graphics card came with the PC. I've never had this issue with any other games, yet with LFS its happened since start up. This seems to be like a problem on my end, rather than a bug, which is why I choose this forum to inquire if anyone could offer a helping hand with solving it =D
I've tried to close all background programs, didn't help. I tried to restart, didn't help. I tried letting the computer sit off all day, and half the night, and tried at 1am incase it was a tempeture issue (I live in Florida
). Didn't help.For a few years now, I've been getting more and more involved with cars, but racing is an issue for me. The closest track is an hour and a half away, and I'd make the drive if I had a car that wouldn't embarrass me to show up with on the track
(having only saved 4/5ths of the money for my 'new' car, and currently behind the wheel of a 2001 PT Cruiser. Ha, try being taken seriously in one of those ). When I heard about how 'realistic' LFS was from a friend, I decided to give the demo a try. I was very happy, until I realized the problem I was facing wouldn't go away.... I'd love to support the game by shelling out some money for it, but not if this problem won't go away. Its impossible to play multiplayer with it, and that kills most of the fun FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG