Quote from th84 :

What i mean is, we can have diffrent opinion's about something without flaming each other. Which is a good thing.

Good Stuff

Quote from th84 :

I understand the need to defend a friend, it has got me in some S*** in the past, so believe me, i understand!

Thats the way it goes. But it brings friends even closer together!

Quote from th84 :

Fair enough Torben. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Unfortunately, I cant really figure out what that means (my bad english,, sorry), but I just take it as something positive...

Quote from th84 :

I REALLY dont have a problem with any of you guy's, I dont agree with Harry's approach/attitude, but im sure some people would say the same about me.

I can understand if someone doesnt agree with Harry's attitude, but he is my friend and so I bolster him.

And just for the notice. Typing sucks. It would be much much much much much much much much easier to talk about such things. Thats why we have and use ventrilo voice chat.

Quote from th84 :

Bob's comments could also be read like this, " By the sounds of this thread, they should stick to CS."

Of course, a thread by some person not being Fm can alwys be read in a non insultive way, But a thread of an FM is automatically insultive or something.
Bob obviously didnt post " By the sounds of this thread, they should stick to CS", no he added "with all those 12 year olds" aware of the fact that it is insultive. Dont twist everything like you need it, see what is posted.

Shotglass: Harry already answered to your question. Thanks Harry.

Quote from th84 :

I agree, there are alway's diffrent opinion's on almost every topic imaginable. Everyone is allowed to have and share their opinion's regardless if they differ from someone else's. I have a good bit of experience with the barrier's, both on your server and other's, so i feel I am able to give a honest opinion about them. Im not sure if you all remember or not, but i used to spend a fair amount of time on your server,(along with a couple other's who have posted here... ie chris kerry, granted its been quite a while) and have never been banned or kicked for not following the rules.

True, I remember you hanging out on the oval. Never had any problems with you, or any of your teammates. I even remember some FMlers connecting to your FOX/OVal server, and I think we had a lot of fun together.

Quote from th84 :

It's the attitude displayed to those who expressed their opinion's that were diffrent from your team's that have caused the riff. Comments such as "there opinions are a bucket of s***" is the problem.

hmm, when I look at the beginning of the thread I see other people starting the insults. for example:

Quote from Shotglas :

fm ... keeping the americans off the real tracks 24/7 ... in that respect i like you

The above is the first thread being in any way insultive, in my opinion. And its not posted by an FM Member.

Quote from Bob Smith :

No idea. Sound like they should stick to CS with all the 12 year olds.

This one is also by a non Fm-Community Member, right after the one above.

So it wasnt us starting the insulting, but we do not sit there and let people talk shit about us. And if someone talks shit about us, we dont hesitate to do the same to him. And some 12 year olds dont understand other language than that.

Quote from th84 :

All good point's, but i still feel they are not needed for 8 lap races. Why not just use no mid race join? We will just have to agree to disagree on that point. I do feel like they are distracting though, not only are they brutal to your fp's (mine anyway, cant speak for others), but if you even touch them your race is through, unlike scraping the wall or touching the grass, which is not so hard to correct. Im just trying to point the thing's that I feel would improve the racing on your server. That doesnt mean you have to use them

I appreciate your constructive criticism. But believe me, we run that server for a while and we tried it in different ways in the beginning, and the way with the barriers came out as the best solution, as I remember people asking why mid-race join is off in an 8 lap race.. There are always different opinions, but IMHO experience with a subject validates a certain opinion about that subject.

Quote from th84 :

I understand your feelings about the yellow flag being shown is distracting, but wouldnt the same be said for all those on screen messages, both the chat box and rcm style? I also understand and agree with the shift+s after crash rule, but i dont think it would be needed as much if those barriers werent all around the track Why are they needed for 7 or 8 lap pick up races anyway? I can see the need in a long race where multiple pit stop's would be made.

I think especially in a 8 lap race based server the barriers are needed. Let me try to explain my opinion. If someone joins the server and sees, 8 lap race. Its clear that this server isnt meant be, how shall I say, Race Purists. Its about to have 5 minutes of action, fun and high speeds. And that over and over again. Alright, what will that new visitor do? Pick a set, pit out and do some laps for practice( to get into the track, car, etc..) until that race is over and the next one starts. Alright, imagine that new racer pitting out without the barriers. He most probably wont see the yellow line indicating the pitlane, or he even doesnt think about it, as the pitlane isnt separated by a band of green for example (HINT HINT TO THE DEVS). So right after the wall has ended he will most problably just steer to the left (edit, he will steer right on the track of course, damn oval-sickness, left-left-left-left.. lol)(edit2. see, we even make fun of ourselves..) onto the track (with max 100 km/h or 60 mp/h, cause of pitlimiter, you understand). So, a car coming onto the track with 60 mp/h and cars approaching from behind with over 200 mp/h just cant get well.
And by the way, I cant find anything distracting about the barriers. If they werent there and you would come on the flat part of the track you lap / or even race is done anyways..

Last edited by Torben, Sat 22 Jul 2006, 23:28.

Quote from th84 :

I think what QS was saying is that a FM member started the thread and other FM member's came in and shot themselves in the foot. I dont think Thor is the one that shot you guy's in the foot... it's the other one('s) that did.

No, I dont think it was the other FM Members (including me) that shot FM in the foot. Thor started ths thread for any reason he had, but he hadnt discussed it with the rest of the FM-Team/Community. All what we other members tried to do is defending our position and deal with insults thrown towards the FM Team, The FM Oval Server, The Oval Drivers in General.
Fact is, for example, that no one gets kicked for standing in his pitbox. But standing in the pitlane for example leads to a yellow flag on the track and that is distracting because you step off the throttle watching out for cars on the track. But if u tell people that, they just lough at you, or start calling you names. And people posting they got kicked for doing nothing, just lie and twist the reality to their needs.
And trying to explain such things in such a thread leads also to getting flamed and called names. It's always the admins that do something wrong. But some people have to look in the mirror or touch their own nose (german saying) before blaming others.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Another good example of people not even reading the post they have quoted. I didn't say you started the thread, i said you shot yourself in the foot WITH this thread. Its the way you have conducted yourselfs while trying to ask why people don't like you that i was talking about.

Ärm, NO. You said FM shot themselfs in the foot. Thats not true. Thorvertonian shot FM in the foot (to stick with your words). No other FM wanted that thread to be started, so dont say FM shot themselfs in the foot.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

FM seem to have totally shot themselfs in the foot with this thread. Its almost like they got bored and decided to have an arguement just for the hell of it.

If you want to be taken seriously, stop talking like prepubescent gangster wannabes.

Another good example, that people dont read the entire thread.
As Thorvertoninan stated before on page 4 or so, it was his idea, no other member of FM knew about the thread before it was posted.
So another silly commentary that is just a waste of webspace..

I read somewhere, that blue flag means, let the car behind you pass, because he is a lap (or more in front) and do it in a way, that the overtaking car does not have to slow down to overtake you. But yes it does not mean "GET THE **** OUT OF THE WAY". Im not sure if Im right, but I think in real life the car getting blue flag has 3 corners to let the car behind pass. But as far as I can say, in LFS the blue Flag is shown really early, so that if you are not that slow, you have plenty of time, to find a good spot to let him/her past.

Quote from spookthehamster :

I understand that this is to stop bad drivers ruining people's races, but I have a better idea for you: Run two servers. Have the current server open to the public, and start a new "pro" server where either a) drivers under a certain time are banned or b) have it password protected, with the password somewhere on these forums/FM website.

Thats actually a very good idea. And we did that. When we first started the oval server we had passworded server, where we did even longer races with qualy and stuff... But since we are a multigaming community, many members moved on to other games and there are just not enough people in the community to get a passworded server full every time. Sure every now and then we do it. but for daily business its just boring to drive around the oval with 5 cars on the track. What we want is a full grid and the opportunity for everyone to have a blasting oval-experience.
Nowadays we run the OVal Junkies for the public and use our other servers for other track/car combos such as banger racing or roadcourses.
But I really appreaciate your constructive Suggestion (dunno if that is proper english..).


Have a look in ourr forum to be informed about such "private sessions". For example, this sunday we are planning a 4 race event. Join our community and see for yourself.

Best regards

Quote from DeKo :

are you the only FM member yeah? where did i say anything about you speaking like that?

"one of the FM Members talks using so called "wigger" speak"

Not "The all powerful Torben uses wigger speak", i do talk about other people you know.

Sorry, I got your post wrong then, I thought that another one, one from FM was meant to me, as I posted as the last FM in this thread a couple of times..

Quote from DeKo :

I know why i got banned, hence why i put "seems like somebody has a grudge" in my post. Yes i got banned for nothing, but judging by the other people requesting to get banned, ill just get a reply "its our server, F*ck off" as usual

The problem is, that we have some people coming to the forums complaing they got banned for nothing. When we then show them the replay where you see waht they got the ban for, they often started calling us names. A replay is a good instrument to show you are "innocent". But posting in our forums : "Why the **** did I got banned you mother*****". Im mean, sure someone like that can **** off.. We dont want such persons.

Quote from DeKo :

another one, one of the FM Members talks using so called "wigger" speak.. "how dare ya do dat".. "da no wai!"

OH NO! better not join a FM server, you get a Lifetime Ban the first time you leave the pits :O

????????????????????????????????????????????
wigger speak, please qoute where I used that so called speak. Sorry that I am german and my english isn't as perfext as yours

Quote from DeKo :

I didnt mean pit like that, i just joined and left the pits. you lifetime ban for that now?

Hm.. cant remember that situation. Dont know if I was around either. But, and thats a non offensive advise, save the replay and post it in our forums. If the replay shows that you got banned for no reason you will be unbanned. Yes admins are human too and make mistakes.

Quote from mrbogeyman :

#1: You are right in saying you can't make an opinion by doing 2 races. BUT, you cannot keep disregarding people opinions about the oval racing because they have little milage. I myself will have a tiny ammount of oval milage compared to yourself, but my experience of LFS on all the other tracks allows me to learn quickly about how things operate on the oval. I would consider my self easily experienced enough to race oval perfectly well, as I have a couple of team mates who occasionally also join in - thus we learn how to race as a team etc and the strategies that can be used. So I would say most people DO have a valid opinion here as experienced racers. Oval is NOT so alien that they are so inept to make comments about it.

Wow, I wouldn't consider myself experienced enough to race the oval perfectly well. To race a track perfectly it takes ages in my opinion. And yes the oval too..

Quote from mrbogeyman :

#2: I think by calling it SPAM yourself you are proving the point. SPAM is a hate object in the internet world and will NEVER be accepted. Im glad to hear you have tried not using it, but in my experience all the important messages just get lost in the sea of spam.

I called it spam because if I called it anything else people wouldnt have known what I meant. Some "spam" is avoidable alright, but some spam result from the fact, that we are playing a beta game and for example the Lapper program is beta as well. We test it and try to improve it. And if you travel around the track and a car stands on the track and you hit you F-Key "standing on the track gets u banned" and next lap that cart is still there, I hit that button 5 times. If that doesnt help, the driver gets a kick.. Thats the way people learn...

Quote from DeKo :

Also, i went onto there little banger server and got a lifetime ban from that just as i exited the pits. seems like somebody has a grudge

Yeah, banger server, good you mention it! We stated the rules in order to have fun. One of the rules is, dont pit. It takes the fun out of it. Its about banger racing to have cars lying around and not pitting and reentering the track. If you lie around on the banger track sooner or later some car will hit you, we even do it on purpose to get others back in race. Its about fun.
And yeah, by the way, I was on a banger server where u got an instant kick as soon as u hit shift+s.. now is that better????

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

learn to ignore silly comments like mine!
if i started a thread sayin 'what do u think of me' there would be endless silly comments, basically u have done the same thing and u have been lucky thus far!

but seriosuly, ive had some problems wit u guys in the past, lets just forget it and i wanna say, good luck to the fag master team

How about learning to just not post such unqualified comments??????

Quote from mrbogeyman :

Its upto you guys to filter out the obvious crap and take on the proper criticism. What forum doesn't have spam and abuse? Don't be disheartened by_ some_ of the stuff posted here, just ignore it and take on board those people who are genuinely trying to help.

Alright, true that in every forum is spam and stuff. But in my humble opinion, people just read FM and/or Oval and thats it. For many people Oval is just skillles crap. But you cant make an opinion by doing 2 races. As I said before my first hours on the oval server where crap as well. But I was willing to learn and now I am enjoying this. Most people posting here cant make constructive comments, they just state, that the spamming is evil, FM is evil and arrogant. But that the spam is necessary to have at least one good race out of 5, they just dont wanna hear it. We run this server for quite a while now, and believe us, we tried it without that spam, it just didnt work out.
If someone can tell me, how to tell new drivers not to stand on the track other than repeating it over and over again, I am willing to try it out, but to be honest, there is no other way on such a track. Its fast and intense. Its different to road courses. Its an oval. And its part of LFS even though some people wish it wouldn't.

Quote from mrbogeyman :

What I would like to point out to you FM guys is....

You created this thread to recieve feedback about your team and community, correct?

I would like to suggest then that you at least have patience in reading and digesting what people have written. At the moment all you seem to be doing in this thread is immediately responding with rebukes and denials about how your server is run. I think you should take a step back and let comments and criticisms be made.

What is the point in asking for comments if you reject them on almost every occasion? By the ammount of negative comments on here (ignoring the blatant oval bashing) I would say there are definately aspects of your community and servers you need to look at more closely. Despite your team's experience etc etc, you do not know it all and you should take some of the comments as constructive criticism and do something about it. THAT would make you a better team and far more respected for admitting the problems you have and rectifying them.

Its true that we wanted opinions (constructive ones) but when people post such things like "I thought FM stood for Fu**ing Munkies", I mean why post such things at all. Thats ridiculous. Go get a life.

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

i thought FM stood for "F**king Munkies"

Wow, now thats a construcitve comment. GREAT

Quote from tristancliffe :

And I was never helped on the odd occasion I joined the junkies server, just told to not be on the track and had a million server messages like "FM-Whocares has set a PB" or "Please clear the track unless you've done 100,000,000 laps of the oval in this car"

Maybe you should just think about what an oval is like:
You race with more than 300 km/h with some to many cars around you. You have to be really cautious not to hit anybody and make it round there without a crash. Imagine the following situation:
You are driving with 4 other cars, having good fights for the lead. You are driving above 200 mp/h all the time and get a real thrill of the speed., Then you get draft by other drivers overtake them, get overtaken again, start to work together, as you get faster through that and have a higher chance of a win. Then suddenly, after Turn 3 a standing car appears in front of you in the middle of track! You honestly have absolutley no chance of avoiding this car, or even if you manage to avoid it, its more than likely, that you hit another car travelling with you at that speed while you try to avoid that car standing on track. Thats just annoying, when people think they can stand around on the track and chat with other drivers.
Ok, now, what to do??? The easiest thing to do is, create a bind on F1 to F8 saying for example Standing on the track gets u banned (yep, getting banned is the only language some people understand). Now you recognize, that it doesnt help at all, cause people keep ignoring it. Then you install that Lapper program to create automated messages or send people to pits automatically. If you have 20 drivers racing, and only 2 of them dont obey the rules and give a fu**, the race is messed up for every other racer trying to race.
So you tell me (not only the one I qouted) you won't get annoyed if some people keep standing on the track and ruin your race. Its something dirfferent on roadcourses, I must admit, but the oval is just not a roadcourse. Its a oval. And to be honest, if you ever watched NAscar or Indycar Races on the oval, as soon as there is a crash, or a car is standing on the track the pace car comes out. Unfortunately, we dont have that option in LFS, so admins of a oval server have to have an eye on those situations, to avoid mass crashes. And some people just dont get it, even after you told them a hundred times.
If people who join the oval server would spectate for a couple of minutes and just look what oval is like, some of that spam wouldn't be necessary. I mean, if you join the oval server as someone that never raced the oval before and you join a gird of 19 other drivers its more than likely that you dont even survive the start. But if you spectate and see how things go round, you might get an idea on how to beave. And, exiting the pits, turning around 180° to run into the leader of the race is just not how you behave on a race track.
Another thing is our voice chat. I remember me joining the oval the first time. I sat there, smoke my little jo*** and thought, OMG what fast and close racing is going on here?? I exited pits after the race had started and tried to get some laps done. After a while I tried to start with the field, and failed. It was just not possible to get a good start and I ended up messing uop other racers races. BUT: I can read, and I pressed shift + s as fast as I could and started out of the pits again, to get a bit of practice. And after some time Im managed to get good fights with other racers and finish the race in lead lap. Then I got some advice from admins: Go low in corners and wide on straights. That will improve your laptime. Alright, lets try that out...... wow that works, Thank you guys. Then they invited me to their voice chat,, Hmmm, voice chat, I used such progs before, so why not. I installed it, and joined. Man that was a great experience. Even though I wasn't a good or fast driver I was treated with respect, because I obeyed the rules and treat the other drivers with respect. So the FM Guys settled me down with a good setup (yes you have to join voice chat to get a setup from them, but thats just because they want to get you there as it makes racing (esp. on the oval) so much better). Alright settled down with a good set and getting help with drafting from the FM Guys, my laptimes improved and after a few days I even managed to win some races. Being able to draft with the main field or even the few cars trying to excape the main field is just another experience than getting kicked out of the race every freakin time. After a while I was asked to join them and well, I had great times there and enjoyed the company of the guyys on voice chat, I joined the team. So, yeah, I am a FM as well. I dont regret it and had many good times there.
If you just join the oval, try to race one or two races, are confused or even annoyed by the mass spamming I can understand that u don't like the oval. But if you truely would have tried or took the advice admins give (and yes admins try to give advice to new drivers) you would see that it can be fun. Its 8 laps (approx 4,5 mins) of absolut fast driving, fighting for position or working together to get a fast laptime. Its another experience than road courses and that in the same game LFS. Try that experience out, connect to our server, spectate for a few races, come to our voice chat, get a setup and learn how to race the oval properly. But hey if you are afraid, you could enjoy it, then just stay away, but dont call us names.
And just for the notice, we do not race only oval. And we even don't only race LFS. Yes, we even play other games together. And we have a life besides playing games. We are people like everyone else, we just know what fun the oval can be..

Sorry if this got a bit confusing, but there are so many things to say, and my brain isn#t the newest.

Happy racing to ya all, and maybe we meet each other on the track and have a good fight and time together

best regards

[FM]^torben

ultimate Theorie:

who needs a minute in blackwood??, right who needs it, if you can have 10, which leads to the picture on the site: think about the corner thats underneath the camera, and think of it as being opened and adding a new track segment. As it is blackwood forest it leads to a long roadlike track uphill and downhill..... yes sth like the green hell, wich takes you 8 mins to get around. so who needs ONE minute...


greets

torben

ok then.. sad sad... not good making jokes with that...