Quote from buedi :

Please don´t hit me if you are aware of it... but if you opera the Pedals on a carpet you can lower the "Carpet Grip thingie" on the bottom side of the Pedals. It works great... so good that my chair sometimes rolls back when I brake

Seems like a good idea. Didn't think of it yet!

Quote from madbikes :

Left Hand Drive: US, Canada
Right Hand Drive: Japan, most Asian Countries (I think)

Well, China is kind of big and they use LHD there. Hong Kong and Japan are RHD. Others I'm not sure. I've heard a saying that countries use RHD if they have kings/emperors.

We are LHD here, and I drove in Japan a few times. It's really funny hitting the wipers when you're thinking turn signals LOL! And turning into the wrong lane when both ways are empty can be a real problem.

What's interesting is, beginning recently Japan recognizes our driver's license. I imagine some funky accidents coming...

Quote from theirishnoob :

i know... load of s*** imo but meh i dont wanna buy act-lab stuff for a wheel.. ill just buy a really cheap wheel and drive it till im used to wheels and then buy a dfp or simular

There is no "really cheap" h-shifter and/or 3-pedal set, unless you build it yourself.

The way I see it, you're not getting a "really cheap" second hand G25 anytime soon. Because a) it is well designed to last and b) if anything breaks it's most likely the h-shifter you want and c) there's not a better wheel coming soon that makes people part with their G25's.

Quote from RacerAsh3 :

I havent got that sound atall. Ive set my ffb to 105%, maybe that'll make a difference?

Setting the FFB level higher makes the clicking more frequent, actually, as it clicks crossing a certain threshold of force.


I decide to continue playing and see if the clicking gets worse... It is distracting nonetheless, but more distracting is the not-fixed pedal set that slides forward whenever I H&T. Strong pedals!

Quote from Rooble :

M3 Challenge is no way near as bad as you make it out to be, the graphics are 10x that of LFS the handling is different but I wouldn't say its all that far off and yes the FF is utter shit. Perhaps if you spent more then 30 seconds playing it you might come to enjoy it, I found it pretty fun although its nothing to scream and shout about.

Driving a brand new M3 round a real track was great, it sounded cool and its modelled very good so I don't see why anyone wouldn't even consider downloading it. Its free and in some aspects it outclasses LFS no sweat, plus variety is good as it gives you a fresh look on what others are doing and what your favourite product isn't.

I agree with you totally. I find it a very polished package. The overall art design is very good, miles better than LFS's. The car drives very convincingly. Although the FF isn't quite the same as LFS, it's not the old ISI countersteer-spins-you-more kind of junk.

Bashing another game for no good reason isn't making LFS any better. If anything it makes the LFS community seem narrow minded, aggressively so.

If I turn to left lock, either FFB lock or hard lock, it clicks. Then I turn right a little and back to left lock it doesn't click. But if I then turn to right lock it clicks. Vice versa.

Or

Whenever the FFB oscilates left to right and back with strong enough force (half peak FFB, it seems), it clicks whenever force changes direction.


Does anyone have this? Is there a quick fix that doesn't void warranty?

Quote from Skil :

I.e. : I can't keep full throttle in the second part of most corners because I loose grip on my rear tires. Maybe it's because of setup ( I tend to use inferno setups ) but I think that the real case is that my racing line isn't perfect... I guess it's a matter of time.

Thanks for your support


Once more, Thanx Everyone

Why would you think you can keep full throttle in any part of a corner? Even with a good setup and a perfect line, there will be parts you just can't go full throttle. It is normal to have to play with the throttle to find the grip limit, for the most part of any corner with any car.

Traction control would be the only setup that allows you to keep full throttle.

Quote from geeman1 :

Which means in practice it supports only up to 640x480

But "super-sample" AA'ed 640x480. And you get two of them overlaid in-brain. I don't think it'll look too bad for racing games. Now flight-sims would probably need higher resolution to spot planes 2km away....

The 9 feet equiv distance is nice, too. I suppose eyes are less strained that way.

Quote from Shotglass :

seeing as i still use and love my 3d pro (afaik still _the_ joystick to have in the descent community) id love to see what theyll come up with this time
sw hardware has always been amoung the best in its market segement

The 3D Pro was my first serious stick, which was perfect! Can you imagine optical stick and throttle 10 years ago? Plus they kind of invented the twist handle feature. And yes I played loads of Descent2 with it. 3D Pro + Pentium 133 + Descent2 + Kali were the best 2 years in my earlier life!

I still own a MS FFB2. Funnily if I leave the throttle off center, the rudder drifts away, too. So I can use either rudder or throttle, but not both. Still the stick signal is top-notch and the FFB has been flawless for years.

Although I don't like MS otherwise, they do have great hardware in that Sidewinder line.

I'm sooooo going to buy a PS3 when GT5 comes out, plus a G25 if I haven't in advance.

I can't understand bashing its physics. There's nothing wrong in all the videos I've seen. And if GT4 is any indication, they'll probably include some super grippy tyres, but the underlying physics will still be good. Definitely nothing like pivoting in there!

The art direction, as mentioned, is excellent. It has a little of HDR, a little of bloom, a little of depth of field, all nicely balanced. The cars look mighty clean but it doesn't really trouble me, and certainly not too out of place on the track.

Plus they included dashboards this time, where the lack of them kept me away from GT4. All is great now. I'll be patient.

Last edited by yoyoML, Tue 28 Aug 2007, 18:07.

Quote from hrtburnout :

Maybe it counts both front and rear diff speeds, and then divides the result by two.

That'd be exactly the same as reading from the central diff.

Quote from simkazzz :

SO i have problem.I have thrustmaster ffb racing wheel .My brake pedal working as intended ,but throttle cant go to the end,if i let it go it still keep pushed a bit.How to calibrate?When i go back home i will post screen of it.

Get DxTweak2 here:
http://www.wingmanteam.com/latest_software/gadgets.htm

It's developed by the Logitech team but works with any game controller. It allows you to modify the start/end/middle points of any axis on any controller.

Quote from jinxboy :

i dont have proof of purchased.

whats their contacts? email? i cant call phones because i am deaf.. sorry.. what should i say to them? "GIVE ME THAT PART NOW KTHX." just kidding.. i need some helps.

thanks.

I remember they have a way of working out warranty from serial numbers. So you could give them the s/n if you don't have the proof.

Quote from jtw62074 :

At the same time, if you were to yaw the bike through steering, the gyro effect exerts a roll torque that tips you into the corner.

You got the effect in reverse. Steering in one way rolls you in the other.

Suppose you're traveling forward, so the front wheel's angular momentum points left. You "steer" to the left by exerting a torque, whose direction points up. The change in the wheel's angular momentum is then in the direction of the torque, which is up. The originally left pointing angular momentum then points left-up, rolling you to the right.

Steer (yaw) left -> roll right. One more reason to countersteer.

Suppose your bike begins to fall to one side: rolls left. The torque that the bike exerts on the wheel points aft. The left pointing angular momentum then points left-aft, yawing the wheel to the left.

Roll left -> yaw left.

You see, that the gyro is "stable" arises from this alternating force and response: yaw left->roll right->yaw right->roll left.... If you had "yaw left->roll left" like you said, then the gyro goes yaw left->roll left->yaw left even more->roll left even more... until it diverges.

Oh, and please read the second part of this article already posted:

Quote from StewartFisher :

No. Have a look at this page made by one of my university lecturers:

http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~hemh/gyrobike.htm

He's quite a character...it's amazing how someone can get so excited about spinning things.
Strictly speaking the gyroscopic forces do have an effect but it's very small, and it is dominated by other effects.

Starting with: "It is almost certain that gyro effects ..." you'll find that he says exactly the same thing I said.

Last edited by yoyoML, Mon 23 Jul 2007, 04:28.

In addition, big wheel on the same fork angle means longer trail. Longer trail helps stabilize a bike.

I'd really, really love some kind of hill climb/rally stages. I'd particularly love narrow tarmac mountain roads since that's what we have in my country.... But any dirt/snow/ice/gravel road is welcome, too!

Quote from NitroNitrous :

I just adjust the view until I see my side mirror fully (usually between 80-90)

I always thought FOV should be adjusted to the things far away, and seat position fore/aft adjusted to the cockpit/gauges/mirrors.

Suppose you hop into a narrow single seater which has mirrors close to the center, and you narrow FOV accordingly. Wouldn't that throw your sense of speed completely off, compared to, well, wider cars?

Quote from duke_toaster :

LFS is for racing. Drifting is a mere byproduct of a great physics but it speaks volumes about the quality physics engine when it works at the extremes of motor vehicles. Like a drag car would

Actually, I think drifting is the by-product of real life motoring. Oh... and racing is, too, since cars started out as transportation instead of recreation, for speed or for show.

I agree that drifting really shows the quality of the physics engine. Drifting is a fine test to a sim's physics. If a sim doesn't allow drifting as it should, then something is definitely porked, like ISI's famous low input poll rate/faked FFB/cliff-like slip curve (although rFactor has some of that fixed).

On topic: I do both!

Quote from jtw62074 :

I wouldn't say Pacejka's Magic models are outdated, really, although the tendency for sim developers "recently" has appeared to be shifting toward doing physically based ones (brush, string, etc..) If a Pacejka's Magic model does the job well enough then it doesn't really get any more outdated than F=MA. One of the F1 teams this year is using an 84 parameter Pacejka model. If you have the resources to do really extensive tire testing then it's really the way to go, although the Radt/Milliken non-dimensional model is rather choice too and expands on it.

For sim developers it's much nicer (imo) to use a physically based model given the lack of really complete sets of tire data they have access too. They're easier to work with and tend to spit out curves all on their own that are quite reasonable without having lots of crazy coefficients to deal with. It's more of a personal preference thing though, I suppose. I just like the idea of having the tire literally being simulated at the physical component level rather than having a curve fitting function, although they both can produce the same results. In the end, the curves are all that matter as Shotglass pointed out.

With 84 parameters I wonder if can still be called Pacejka... You should be able to pick some generic functions to fit all the variables.

I like the "physical" approach, too. With all those 84 parameters I don't think they can even model a flatspot, but with LFS's approach it is done quite well. And to model a different tyre you don't need loads of raw data and fit that again, but adjust some easily measurable parameters to get approximate results. This is probably the best way to model a variety of cars at the same time.

Definitely rev-matching the clutch. You'll need to do this with or without synchro.

Quote from Calvinaquino :

Hmmm..., thanks.
But is it correct to say (i think it is) that the best time to shift up (while accelerating, heh) is based on the peak of the torque right? i mean if the torque peaks @ 5000rpm the you will mostly shift up(in every gears) at (for example) 6500?

Nope. You shift when the next gear offers the same hp as the current gear, as explained. It is equivalent to shifting when the next gear offers just as much wheel (not engine) torque, which is stated as well.

You cannot possibly work out when to shift WITHOUT considering the whole power (torque) curve AND the two gear ratios. Not possible. So looking at only the torque peak is quite useless.

Yeah the drift bible is a nice piece of video. Beware that the terms used may be different elsewhere. For example the feint may very well be called flick or scadinavian flick.

The DFP at 720 degrees is indeed more difficult to drift with than, say, the MOMO. If you hold countersteer until the FF pulls you back you'll likely spin in the other direction. Anyway, try to be one step ahead of the FF may help you a bit. Or otherwise just reduce some rotation as people say.

In GPL and NR2003 I just set a "ff lag time" to 40ms, so that the game may send the expected FF signal one step ahead to the wheel. I don't think there's an equivalent in LFS.

Oh, and did you try running your DFP in "high force mode"? I suspect it allows more voltage to the FF motor, allowing a faster feedback. I think you switch to it by pressing L2+R3+select, and then the LED should blink twice... Oh dear, I'm not with my wheel now, so I'll update as I get back home.

edit: it's L1+R3+select

Last edited by yoyoML, Tue 22 May 2007, 13:43.

Quote from Racer Y :

All this drift/anti drift nonsense has got me to thinking about something.
What about a track that drifts? Where corners change radius and banks after so many minutes? or straights that lengthen and shorten. Having Chicanes change direction lap to lap. and if you're caught in the middle of all this, you have to negotiate it? lol wouldn't that suck? It would be like trying to play with hot wheels on a sleeping fat guy or something.

It's a very good idea. It reminds me of the sailplane sim "Condor" where you must chase rising thermals, which grow, die, and generally change lots as time progresses. And it's a racing sim so that counts as having "drift tracks".

That thing puts Simbin's "live track" to shame.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Drift is a way without back. Once the physics of the game allows drifting, people will drift... young people love drift you know.

There is a way to avoid people ask for track or other drift things: make a weird physics such RF which does not permit drift an these people will say goodbye...

You are totally right! But then rF just fails the "drift test" so we've one fewer useful sim to play. Anyway, I can drift through all gravel/snow corners in RBR so I'm not too upset.

Quote from XCNuse :

the only thing i dont like about the DFP is its size, its actually fairly small, i think the momo racing is about the same size, but there is something about the DFP that makes it seem even smaller

Probably because it is thinner, too. DFP is just way too small.

I'm thinking about adding an extra layer that wraps around the wheel (how do you call it?), maybe leather... maybe buy one from an autoshop. Has anyone tried it?