Quote from chunkyracer :

I think that´s exactly what we don´t need at this point... Instead of a few selected opinions from the beta testers, we would have thousands of opinions from every "car expert" in this forum, and when the car was released everybody would have a reason to not be happy about it, because their suggestion wasn´t implemented. So, I think is time to let LFS devs do their work, and I must admit that what happen today with this announcement and the response from the majority of LFS users really made me proud for being a member of this community.

Yeah you got a point be it would stell be nice to have one. or even at lest a test drive with the car. but yea like you said everyone would not be happy because the suggestions wasnt in the released version. But a test patch is to find bugs not give suggestions.

Quote from Whiskey :

Sometimes things dont go like it you in the way you want. And much more in a programers life

spanish:
A veces las cosas se te tuercen y no te salen como quieres. Yo empece este curso a programar en clase, programas ultra simples y a veces me lio y tardo 30 minutos cuando programas mas complicados los hice en 15. Aunque se que te jode lo de las notas...prueba a estudiar xD

A bue tu spañol es terriblemente malisimo

Quote from farcar :

Of course, the real reason that the patch has been delayed is because of THIS threat.

Yes I bet you breathed a large sigh of relief

I was a bit dissapointed when the "postponed" message came up, I can wait until this "Early 2009", possibly in early January.

Quote from scipy :

I was just wondering, how are you going to solve the brake pressure problem? Obviously you can take the bias from the real car, but brake pressure in a real Scirocco is virtually "unlimited" depending on how hard you can step on the pedal. I consider this a problem because LFS and all the hardware out there is still travel-sensitive and if we take the maximum amount that you can press a pedal on a PC and in LFS as the "absolute maximum pressure" then the ABS will kick in right away and the car will never stop (well it will stop but 2-3 car lenghts further than it would with threshold braking).

So, is the brake force going to be set at a fixed value just around the the kick-in point of the ABS (so we can still brake at max. pedal travel like with all the other cars in LFS, depending on brake force ofcourse) or is the brake pressure going to be uberhigh and we'll have to use only 50-60 % pedal travel (like in iRacing) to avoid ABS from kicking in?

The following screenshot explains in much less words what I mean. The first line (one where the car is) is the result of brake force adjusted for threshold braking, second one is 10 Nm higher and the ABS kicks in on rear tires only and the furthers line is max brake force so ABS works all the way.

There is no need to adjust or have a set brake force in LFS. It's simple, really, ABS only engages when it detects a wheel locking/skidding. ABS is independant of the Brake Force setting.

So, in LFS, if your brake force is low you will be less likely to lock/skid the wheels and therefore ABS won't engage that often. If you set the brake force high, it will be easier for you to lock/skid your wheels when braking and therefore ABS will kick in more often. Just like now, it's just a matter of testing the setup on the track to find the braking threshold.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain!

Very happy to hear about the limited setup options and finishing touches on the VW. Have a good xmas devs and try to take some time off for the holidays! Those of us who are not spoiled brats will certainly not be upset by the delay.

Quote from Rotary :

So, in LFS, if your brake force is low you will be less likely to lock/skid the wheels and therefore ABS won't engage that often. If you set the brake force high, it will be easier for you to lock/skid your wheels when braking and therefore ABS will kick in more often. Just like now, it's just a matter of testing the setup on the track to find the braking threshold

I think his question boils down to, given the announce about limited setup choices, the max brake pressure could (will?) be set to one fixed value - will the devs choose to a high number or rather a low one?

If you look at the screenshot, it appears that a specific choice could favor drivers with some type of equipment over another. E.g. load cell brakes and nixim-modded G25s would work better with a high max force.

IMO the braking power in a car is only, as Scipy says, virtually unlimited (there are several factors limiting how much force can realistically be applied on the pedal, the most obvious being the strength of the driver)

IIRC it was said an average person on an average road car would be unable to make wheels lock over 80 km/h (assuming a decently grippy, dry surface with the camber changes which are usually found on public road)

:sadbanana :hbomb:

Good luck Scawen!

Quote from evilpimp :

Sad news yet good news. :P Sad news that we'll have to wait a bit longer but great news that LFS is evolving so much and getting a new TC, stability control AND limited setup options!

Anyways, keep up the good work. I'm sure you're doing everything you can.

Its ok Scawen. We all understand that these things happen in game devolpment. I will be happy to test patches and report any bugs. Since i run an Intergrated card on my moms computer i can feed info about bugs with computers older than 2002.

heh
- people always asked for progress reports and release dates
- the more sensible here always told them that this thread is exactly the sort of thing why you dont announce anything
- the forum was proven right... yay for lfsforum

anyway shame about the christmas present schedule falling down but id rather someone out there in the gaming industry held up to a meaningful standard of quality

It's because of this kind of things that I love LFS more: The patch is postponed even under this situation, so we will have a even higher quality patch for the game... the patches are never rush, everything is always highly detailed and precise, perfectionist, with every known bug fixed in the patch, this thing that the devs have been doing is just a amazing job. I've never had any problems with LFS so far.. I loved it since the first time I saw the game, just when patch U came out, and then I've been playing the demo until I was able to purchase the S2.. and I'm glad I bought LFS because your work in this game is really good.

Thank you so much Scawen, Victor and Eric
You're doing a amazing job. I love it. Keep it up

Its good that you guys are postponing it so you can fix on all the errors. I rather play with the scirocco in january and have less errors than playing it on friday and have a whole bunch of bugs on it.

The Scirocco is in more then one way a step in a new direction for LFS.

I noticed this thread today, but was unable to read through any thing but the first post. I had a feeling of disappointment. Christmas time is coming and I am not going to be behind a computer coding or working out a problem for a user. I planned on hanging out with my brother from Atlanta, parents and most importantly wife and 3 year old daughter. Almost as important was putting some serious time in on the Scirocco. Doesn't look like that will happen after all.

I admit. I thought of the cons first. I suppose that is a natural thing to do sadly. But, I did.

Then I began to think. How much I've worked over the past year to come to the level I am at in LFS. (off subject: I have something else to admit. I bought LFS in Dec 2007 and made it my new years resolution. Silly, but what the hell right?)..anyways.... I found LFS by accident and have driven this simulator more then i've played any game ever. Even Gran Turismo 1 which in the Summer of 98 took over a big part of my life. I try to treat LFS as though it is real. Not to a point of becoming disconnected from reality, but to enjoy and make the most of what is available to us. I consider this my part in LFS and I have great pride in always trying to be a better community member and a better driver. From all that I've seen from the devs they do the exact thing at their end of LFS. If you have always wondered why this Sim is so great?? Scawen's post in this thread is good example why. It shows the attitude. People that create things can't wait for you to see them. So they aren't holding out. The point of creating something you love is so others can enjoy it too. I would be willing to bet that this let down the devs more then it did us. Those that are flaming here should consider picking them self's up as the LFS Team has done and continue on.

My more current thoughts on the specifics to the new car and it's limited setup options goes like this:

Awesome!! This is awesome!! This could be some of the closest racing LFS has seen to date. I would assume there won't be any Locked-Diffs and we must treat the vehicle in more realistic manner to drive better. It is funny, but over the last few months on several occasions a team mate and myself has discussed how in spec racing there are limited setups. And Behold!!! The Scirocco is on it's way!!! It's almost like our minds were read. The way I see it now is this could separate the men from the boys.

Thanks for taking the time to read and I can't wait see where this goes.

Jay

Quote from Inouva :

A bue tu spañol es terriblemente malisimo

He was born in Spain like me... Is like if I say that your portuguese is very bad

Quote from Tomas Miranda :

He was born in Spain like me... Is like if I say that your portuguese is very bad

If only they spoke portuguese in argentina
They actually speak spanish...
(well at least spanish is argentina's official language)

Quote from Velociround :

If only they spoke portuguese in argentina
They actually speak spanish...
(well at least spanish is argentina's official language)

I was talking about you you are from Brazil, I thought in Brazil you talk protuguese...

P.S: Sorry for these off-topics, i have my hotmail account in my profile, we canget a large conversation about languages while we wait for the Sciricco release

That was a long read, this thread.

Thanks a lot Scawen for the communications.
No problems with the delay, that was to be expected after reading the test patches forum.

Good luck on fixing the bugs, and thank you very much for listening to the user requests and implementing them (reduced setup options, now that will be interesting )

Wishing you, the dev team and also LFS users, including the impatient moaning kids, a merry christmas.

Quote from Scawen :

Hello Racers.

We are sorry to have to announce that the VW Scirocco will not be released this week as planned. Unfortunately we are unable to continue working into the following week, and it has turned out impossible to reach the required standard in the time available.

This is for two reasons :

1) The compatible test patches had more bugs than expected. Although the recent graphical improvements had worked very well in private testing, when released to the public and tested by hundreds of people, it turned out that there were problems on some graphics cards. One of these has been solved completely and another has been partially fixed. There is also an issue where LFS sometimes causes a crash - this has not yet been resolved and there are some other minor bugs to sort out before we can release an official version.

2) Refining and finalising the Scirocco is taking longer than expected. Although we have made good improvements recently, up to the date of the previous announcement, there were still outstanding issues that proved harder to fix than expected. This is on the mechanical side and the electronic side. We are trying to make a good simulation of the traction control systems and the stability control systems, well known to be a very good feature of VW cars.

Our aim is to make the Scirocco our first car with very limited setup options. The plan is to make it have only the setup options that are readily available on a real road going Scirocco, for example tyre pressures and toe settings. This will mean that the racing should be closer than usual and rely on driver skill, without the need to search for the best setups. Of course this means we need to get the setup as good as possible so it is comparable with the real car.

We are confident that we can fix all the issues and make the car a really good one to drive in the near future, but as various things that need to be done will take an unknown amount of time, we had to make the decision to postpone the release until next year, rather than release something in a rush that is really not as good as it can be.

We know this will disappoint many of you who have waited a long time for the Scirocco, and we are sorry about that. We plan to fix the bugs and continue developing the Scirocco suspension and electronic control systems, to give you a good patch early in 2009.

Kunos take note.

Limited setup option racing is WELL worth the postponement if you ask me! After watching the TDI Cup all season long, I fell in love with the idea and cant wait to try my hand at it.

For you guys to sacrifice Christmas and a winter break to improve Live for Speed for yourselves, for us, for the ones who play it...
You guys really deserve a big Christmas gift or something in return!

I think a few dozen demo racers buying S2 for the Scirocco will be a nice gift.

I really like the idea of limited setup options. And I even more like the quality over quantity politics and the fair-minded attitude towards the community shown by the devs over the years. So no problem with the postponement here, get that thing out when it's ready

Quote from RS1T :

it would make SENSE for a car in a RACING game to have adjustable features. The FXO RB4 and XRT are all 'imaginary' cars that people can go out and buy, so why arn't there limited setups on them as well

Agreed! The release of the Scirocco would be well worth waiting for if the limited setup was applied to all cars that fall into the 'class' of limited setup.

I am glad the decision to limit setup options has been made. It's a brave one. For the first time really LFS' handling and physics can be judged in a completely different way, I could drive a Scirocco and know that the LFS version should feel exactly the same if things were done perfectly.

Hopefully this will begin a total overhaul of the current cars, each being given a proper identity, given a place in the LFS world of motorsport.