The situation now:


This is how it's been all along. We have Spanish from Spain, which the rest of the countries understand, but is indeed different from all their dialects. In Spain we are happy with this as our version has been polished and fits our language, but we understand other countries would like a translation that fits them better.


If we add an "Español Latino" version:


You can create a version that would be closer to all of their dialects, but in the end it would be either just fitted to one specific country, or maybe even it wouldn't fit perfectly any country, and would be "in between" all of them. Is this OK with all the people from all the countries or will they want the latin translation closer to their own? I mean, would they say "now that we have a latin version, make it OUR version"? In any case, I think this is the best option, but having multiple translators from multiple countries would end up in a confusing translation and a harder than usual work to make it decent.


The last option is:


To have just one choice in between Spain and the rest of the countries. We wouldn't be happy at all losing the translation that we already have, and I think it wouldn't please any other country neither. I think this option doesn't make sense.

Spanish is a language which comes from Latin, a very old language. A Spanish guy called Cristobal Colón, discovered América in 1492. He discovered its lands and its people, and he had 'installed' Spanish as official language in América. Then, Cristobal Colón came back to Spain and continued talking Spanish in Spain. Then, some words can change in all that (more than) 550 years, but the original language is the one that the Spain land talk. Any other words are new words or dialects that people invented, and then sounded nice. But really correcto Spanish is the Spanish from Spain, because we are the promotors of the language, and Latins must adapt their language in order to play LFS and anything in Spain. I'm not going to say 'pendejo' or 'boludo' or any word that they invented, because that words aren't correct.

Regards, T.Miranda.

Quote from Tomas Miranda :

Then, some words can change in all that (more than) 550 years, but the original language is the one that the Spain land talk.

Nobody is denying where the language came from just that it has evolved here in LatinAmerica....Spain population is 45~ million, spanish speaking people (as a native language) population is around 460 million...do the math

Quote from Tomas Miranda :

and Latins must adapt their language in order to play LFS and anything in Spain.

that´s wrong , LFS is on the correct path trying to adapt the language to target population...and as MaKaKaZo stated, I don´t think it will be good to eliminate the spain spanish version....just have 2 versions..Español & Español Latino or Español Americano (but that one would conflict with "the common english & european idea" that America is only USA:razz

Quote from Tomas Miranda :

any word that they invented, because that words aren't correct.

Many of the words "invented" here in America, are not only approved by the "Real Academia de la Lengua Española" but make more sense all around..we say computadora to a computer (PC), you call it ordenador (maybe derived from french¿?), check their site, they talk about "americanismos" and they revise them and incorporate them to the Spanish language so IT CAN EVOLVE...
http://www.rae.es/rae/Noticias ... tada4?ReadForm&menu=4
http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/html/presentacion.htm

Saludos,

Roberto

Tomas, if there are cans of worms around can you actually leave them in the cupboard rather than open them?

Quote from canovi88 :

im from spain,and respect for all but..latin sux

That was... out of place...?

So what did Julius Caesar Speak? Quechua?

First I want to say that I find it great that they can be language packs for any language or slang, and it's a great idea.

I've read quite a bit of literature in "Spanish", and independently from the country or region it comes from it is still the same language. It has many dialects, but any native speaker should be perfectly capable of understanding another one.

I think this "Latino Spanish" must be a USA idea, it's not like there is only two ways to speak spanish. The one that is spoken in Spain and the one that is spoken elsewhere. The variation between the way Spanish is spoken in Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba etc is as varied as these with Spain.

As for the Latino bit, well, it seems to me that the Romans never invaded America. So saying that the Spanish spoken in America is Latino and the one in Spain not, is like saying that English spoken in America is Anglo-Saxon and the English spoken in Britain is not.

Anyway, just my opinion. Nothing against a new language pack. Just that "Español Latino" might not be the best name for it as, at least in my humble opinion, all varieties of Spanish are Latino.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Tomas, if there are cans of worms around can you actually leave them in the cupboard rather than open them?

Quote from diablo21 :

That was... out of place...?

Meh..won´t get into arguments that won´t be resolved and are out of the scope of the thread Just some facts (I think they are:razz

1 Spanish language is/comes from Spain.
2 There are more people outside of Spain that speak Spanish as a native language
3 Latinamerica is commonly used to describe/refer to spanish speaking countries in the American continent (why?? dunno..but it´s like that:really
4 The terms America and american are mostly accepted/known to the European community as a reference to USA and their citizens
5 The developer thought it could be useful to "tropicalize/localize" the text of the sim
***Which I think it´s good and would serve to many purposes....more people in Latinamerica will be reached, even in the USA, Latinamerican born people living there, are now the biggest minority group...that´s why the Latino term is now everywhere***

I don´t like the Español Latino term as well...I would personally prefer Español americano, but maybe it would be confusing to some English speaking communities and maybe it wouldn´t be accepted by some Spanish speaking communities

Having said that and if needed, I also volunteer to collaborate with Neto & Rigun to try to make a good neutral translation of the text file

Feliz Navidad y Prospero Año Nuevo

"Latino" is not a good way of phrasing it due to its connotations and vagueness, that looks like the best way of phrasing it.

It's pointless arguing whether there should or should not be alternative Spanish language packs, because it's been started. If people turn up to threads just with a "no we don't want it" attitude for something that's only an option, especially if it's only as minor as a different language pack, they really ought to reconsider whether they need to be posting. Besides, there's a Portugese (Brazil) pack anyway.

Language compromises are a difficult issue. The English native translation in LFS is British English, no apologies - although Scawen made the pack and he, of course, uses British English. I believe the Dutch translators have had issues trying to shoehorn the varieties of Dutch spoken in The Netherlands and Belgium in to one pack. In these cases, there is no issue with forks unless they get to a silly level. They didn't fork it in that case, despite my suggestion.

Basically, my suggestion is try to make a single South and Central American Spanish language pack. If you are content with the it being appropriate, fine. If not, just fork that basis in to multiple sensible packs where there are genuine noticable differences.

Good luck to the guys localising it, unfortunatly I have almost no knowlege of Spanish so I won't be able to help. Sorry if my comments are percieved as interfering, I can't help jumping in if I feel that a minority of posters are hellbent on handbag combat or disrupting things.

I don't think there's a real need of this new language option. As said before, we so called "Latinos" understand %100 of the actual "Español" language setting of LFS, so I dont see the really need of a "latino" conversion.

If its already done, we can live with it no questions about that, but... instead of 2 countries based in one language with subtle differences (i.e. Brazil-Portugal, UK-USA, etc), "latinos" are formed by too many different cultures and therefore, each one with its own kind of español dialect.

Argentina
Belice
Bolivia
Chile
Costa Rica
Colombia
Cuba
El Salvador
Ecuador
Guatemala
Honduras
Mexico
Nicaragua
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Republica Dominicana
Uruguay
Venezuela

...

Is it only me thinking that "Español Latino" cant involve and represent every country in that list? Lots of countries = Lots of differents dialects of spanish = Impossible to please everyone

I say it one more time , is a wasted of time , make another language , already we live with the spanish language in the game , in fact i never use it, I just use the english language in game

Quote from pacmanrr :

3 Latinamerica is commonly used to describe/refer to spanish speaking countries in the American continent (why?? dunno..but it´s like that:really

It makes sense actually. The way I see it, it's used to describe the american countries that speak latin-originated languages - spanish and portuguese. That's how we use it around here anyway (I'm sure other countries use it in a much worse way).

[off topic]

Quote from duke_toaster :

Besides, there's a Portugese (Brazil) pack anyway.

But then, honestly, I can't understand clearly what someone from Portugal speaks. They speak too fast and the accent is too different, a lot of words are completely different (and don't exist in the other part), and we use different conjugations. The question is: is that the case with the spanish variations?
On a side note, I can understand my team mates with (almost) no problems, and one of them is british while the other is american. And they understand each other pretty well too. I'd say the differences in pt-pt and pt-br are deeper, but then it could be because we (I) don't have much contact with them?
[/off topic]

Quote from duke_toaster :

Good luck to the guys localising it, unfortunatly I have almost no knowlege of Spanish so I won't be able to help. Sorry if my comments are percieved as interfering, I can't help jumping in if I feel that a minority of posters are hellbent on handbag combat or disrupting things.

I'm sure you're helping a lot more than interfering (at least I hope so, because I'm doing the same here :schwitz

Quote from Inouva :

I say it one more time , is a wasted of time , make another language , already we live with the spanish language in the game , in fact i never use it, I just use the english language in game

But you can't speak for everyone. I know I'd be disappointed if there isn't a brazilian portuguese, even though I use the english myself. It's good to have a translation to your own language, and much better if people are willing to give local populations the attention they need.

I'll agree the problem is a bit bigger here though, as there's a lot of countries with their own variations. But I'm sure a lot of people are looking forward to this.

Quote from Tomas Miranda :

Spanish is a language which comes from Latin, a very old language. A Spanish guy called Cristobal Colón, discovered América in 1492. He discovered its lands and its people, and he had 'installed' Spanish as official language in América. Then, Cristobal Colón came back to Spain and continued talking Spanish in Spain. Then, some words can change in all that (more than) 550 years, but the original language is the one that the Spain land talk. Any other words are new words or dialects that people invented, and then sounded nice. But really correcto Spanish is the Spanish from Spain, because we are the promotors of the language, and Latins must adapt their language in order to play LFS and anything in Spain. I'm not going to say 'pendejo' or 'boludo' or any word that they invented, because that words aren't correct.

Regards, T.Miranda.

Well dear Father of My Spanish, I have some opinions:

You ride a bike with three tyres and so I'll have to ride a bike with three tyres JUST because YOU like it more? I don't think so

I wont use "Tio" instead of "Wey" because Mr. Colon used to say it, It sounds horrible.

And "they" are the people who made YOU what you are now... A nice country.

Anyways, I don't really care now if there is a Spanish for us.

Quote from Inouva :

I say it one more time , is a wasted of time , make another language , already we live with the spanish language in the game , in fact i never use it, I just use the english language in game

It is curious but I think that I will make the same if only exist "Spanish Latino" or something, like I neither want to see movies in this "language".

Sorry for offtopic but, the conclusion is clear, only one "Spanish Latino" traduction can't to encompass all Center and South American countries. And in the same way, the actual traduction in Spanish is perfect understandable for all Spanish spoken contries.

The discuss of T. Miranda it is not true, all other countries has "invented" words in last 500 years, but in Spain too, we don't speak like 500 before, you can se movies based on and listen their Spanish is different.

OK, thanks for this discussion.

For now, I have removed "Latino" from the test patch. This is not necessarily a permanent decision, but it's better for now, instead of now adding a flag and coding Latino into LFS as a permanent language, while there is some doubt about the need for it, I'd prefer to just leave it out instead of working on it.

I got a bit interested in this case and I think it is like all Spanish but all different dialects so I do not think that we need that. But all those languages all Official?

Sorry, not mean to hurt anybody but it would only get all confused in my opinion. Anyway, how about just single Latin?