One of the things that putted me off from LFS is the whole setups nonsense. I am sick of being forced to use unrealistic and rubish setups if i want to be fast.. Some of them totally ruin the car till it's no longer recognizable.
I haven't followed LFS progress recently, but my teammate said something about road cars getting very limited setup options. That's great and a good step, but we need that with all the cars..
Limit ALL unrealistic options that you wouldn't find in your normal RL pit stop. Limit all settings that are related to uncomplete or wrong physics. Like aerodinamics and stuff. If it's still not coded, then let's not have the option to mess with that and make redicolous setups just so we can be fast.
It all came to the point where people who find more glitches and bugs in physics make sets, and you are literally forced to use similiar sets just so you can keep up.
I know this is the good way of finding bugs in physics, etc, but how long do we have to be guiney pigs and is it more important then good racing?
There are beta testers there for a reason...

I do agree that realistic setup restrictions are a step in the right direction.

But I also think that the role of setups is overrated in a race. While a "good" setup might gain you a second or two over a lap, it usually makes the car so unstable and tyre eating that it's almost undrivable for anything longer than five laps.
Basically, it's still the skill that's the main deciding factor.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I haven't followed LFS progress recently, but my teammate said something about road cars getting very limited setup options. That's great and a good step, but we need that with all the cars..

AFAIK Scirocco is the only car that will have limited setup options.

Erm, what kindov bugs are you on about? The last bug I can remember was the high nose bug, which was in patch P or something....

I agree with the road cars though, but the scirocco is like the guiney pigs you were on about, i'm fairly certain that when it's released the devs will think about limiting the setups for other road cars too, if it's a success ofcourse.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

There are beta testers there for a reason...

The thing is that even the best beta teams can only find a fraction of the bugs and glitches that the game has.

Quote from ColeusRattus :

But I also think that the role of setups is overrated in a race. While a "good" setup might gain you a second or two over a lap, it usually makes the car so unstable and tyre eating that it's almost undrivable for anything longer than five laps.
Basically, it's still the skill that's the main deciding factor.

Not quite, as most of my (and majority probably) races are 5 or so lap stints, and there those 1 or 2 seconds means first place or last
I hate the fact that cars loose all the soul and "personality" with those horrid sets. I haven't drove a proper LX set for years, all of the fast ones feels like i'm driving the most understeery car in the world.

I even came to the point that i see GT5 as my simming rescue. I don't want to have to pay for iRacing, and i don't want to drive LX that understeers more then XFG..
What's the deal with that anyway, is it still the justification that we are helping in nailing the physics, so we have these million setup options?

I agree with OP, the setups have become a burden.

I'm not a fast driver by no means, but it still frustrates me to know that the drivers that beat me by seconds are probably using unrealistic setups. Not to mention things like wheel / chase view, clutch cheat.. but i digress.

I don't see why we don't have server determined setups OPTION. People who enjoy fiddling with setups would not lose anything, and those of us that enjoy an even field could have a place to race.

I understand unlimited setup tweaking may be benefical to testing the physics engine. Why not keep single player as it is, but limit setup options in multiplayer. Win - win?

Limiting setups is the easiest way to enhance the racing experience, ironing out all the bugs from physics will take time.

When I was introduced to LFS i was impressed by the flexibility of setup options. This however should not stand in the way of enjoying LFS. I have a feeling more and more "serious" sim-racers are switching to iRacing..

Which of the "more serious sim-racers" do you mean? Most are just getting bored of the same content in LFS, switching to other sims, it's nothing to do with lack of forced setups.
I also disagree, I don't believe there is such a thing as an un-realistic setup. Some of the assymetrical setups are probably not ones you'd see in real life, but how do you know that they wouldn't work in real life?

Quote from Not Sure :

Not to mention things like wheel / chase view, clutch cheat.. but i digress.

You are putting using chase view and using that clutch macro on the same level? illepall

Quote from zeugnimod :

You are putting using chase view and using that clutch macro on the same level? illepall

Yes I am, both offer unfair advantage and are not available in real life.

Quote from Not Sure :

Yes I am, both offer unfair advantage and are not available in real life.

Wow. :thumbsdow

Do you realize that one is an option in the game and the other one is achieved by external programs?

Quote from [DUcK] :

Which of the "more serious sim-racers" do you mean? Most are just getting bored of the same content in LFS, switching to other sims, it's nothing to do with lack of forced setups.
I also disagree, I don't believe there is such a thing as an un-realistic setup. Some of the assymetrical setups are probably not ones you'd see in real life, but how do you know that they wouldn't work in real life?

Maybe you are right, it's not the setups per se that are making LFS less interesting. But this issue would be really easy to fix, so why are you against it? I don't mean to flame, I just can't understand why would anyone be opposed to closer / more realistic racing..

It doesn't make racing any less realistic. Don't get me wrong I'm all for limited setup options, but it does take some fun out of it. Then again it also saves me a few minutes not having to play with so many options in the set for league races
I think the FBM should be the most limited in the setup, though, along with the road going cars.
Don't get me started on clutches

Quote from zeugnimod :

You are putting using chase view and using that clutch macro on the same level? illepall

Bwahahaha that's you told Zeug.

:sadbanana

A simple option on server site: "Realistic setups - on"... that's all I want. I like to play with todays setup options(thx to them i've learned a lot about car suspension etc), but also I would like to be able to race in realistic matter on servers .

I hate setups, I really do...for instance, I've been along to 2 Kyoto 250 practices. In the first race, I qualified last iirc, and finished pretty low down. I was then given a set, and in the last race, I qualified 6th and finished 6th! As soon as I recieved that set, my laptimes were faster by two thirds of a second. There are some slow people out there who are doing well because of a good set, and fast people who are doing badly because of a slow one. I know setting up your car is a major part of motorsport, but you have so many options on road cars, ones that you can take to real extremes...

IMO, setups in LFS need to be a lot more limited than they are now. It would produce closer racing, I'm sure!

Unrealistic setups are only as unrealistic as you make them. These so called un ealistic setups your on about may seem unrealistic to you, but to the person that made the setup, it will feel great, because they like it.

What i'm saying is when I make a setup, I don't think about all the people who would like more understeer than the setup provides, but I make it so that I like it, so that I can drive the car on the limit and be able to keep the car on the road. If you don't like using faster guys setups, dont use them, just because these guys drive faster than you, doesn't mean that their setup is faster.

'Not sure', what's the point in fixing something that isn't actually the problem? :S

Also, what's going to make it more realistic and closer? I'm not opposing the idea of the restricted setups btw, i'm just questioning the reasons.

I couldn't agree more Ray. A setup is setting the car up to be able to be pushed to the limit whilst you're in your comfort zone. More often than not, the fast guys like driving oversteery sets, so they can handle the car, rather than guessing what it's about to do next. Admitedly I couldn't drive most of the fast sets when I started, but once I started getting more confidence and driving faster, the set became easier to drive.

Quote from [DUcK] :

Don't get me started on clutches

:Kick_Can_

I did not start this thread, and I have already expressed my view on this matter. Let's keep this on topic

I don't believe it has gone off topic?

Quote from Bawbag :

Unrealistic setups are only as unrealistic as you make them. These so called un ealistic setups your on about may seem unrealistic to you, but to the person that made the setup, it will feel great, because they like it.

And that person for example never sat in the real car in his life or been to a RL garage/pit. People are just finding ways to make them faster, and that would be ok, but in the process they mess the car up so badly that all the charactheristics of the car are gone! Fast LX sets are AWEFULL. Period.

I don't know how to make a set, so if i want to be fast i have to use some random set.
Are there any real mechanics/race drivers here, do you have all those options when you're setting the car up?

Well no, you don't have the amount of options that LFS provides, but if I did, I'd sure as hell be using them.

I meant to reply to Bawbag:s message.

My reasoning was based on the fact that the "fast setups" more often than not exploit physics "features" that really should not be there. Locked diffs is one example.

Yeah, nobody has to use these sets if they don't want to, that is true.

So one could say there is nothing unfair here, we all have access to WR-sets.
My point is that I would like to race with realistic setups WITHOUT it being a disadvantage. If you don't see this as an issue, that is fine too.

LFS is supposed to be a simulator, remember?