I don't really believe that Senna lost the car like that :s. As has been said no real conclusion has come from this whole thing.
Also from having watched a video of just before the accident Senna is at the apex when the car breaks. He didn't miss the apex at all from what I can see. The car just strightens up and heads off. Theres also some telemntary views on the vid and some of the values jump when the car goes stright.
The cause of Sennas death was a suspension rod which went through his visor and into his head. Look at the senna site and you can see a picture if you want, although not the nicest of things to look at ...
What you believe or not is rather pointless because the facts of the telemetry data have nothing to do with what you believe.
1.: On the video I found on the site you linked I can clearly see that Senne is not right on the apex. From that camera angle it is hard to see how much exactly he is away from the inside of the corner but I would guess that it's about 1 m.
2.: It is also clearly to see in that vid that the car steps out with its rear at first. This is also what was in the article I mentioned, just didn't make it clear in the post I told about it. Senna corrects this (with his supernatural reaction) by going wide but this put him on the dirty part of the track where he could not keep the car on the track anymore. So the theory that his steering broke is bs. If that was the case the car would not have stepped out with the rear at first, it would have gone straight and nothing else.
I know it's hard to believe for some people that Sennas death was caused by a mistake he made on his own as he is considered some kind of racing-god. But after all he is just a human being - and these do make mistakes however perfectly they can drive.
And what do you mean with "no real conclusion has come from this whole thing" ????? The telemetry data are crystal-clear facts. Of course real conclusions have come from this. Or is it just the fact that you don't believe what I wrote? I'm really sorry that I can't tell you anymore where I read that article, but please understand that this was over 10 years ago.
And concerning the suspension rod - this is just what I said.
Wow, Christian, I bet they wish they had you on the prosecution team, managing to do in two posts what incredibly expensive lawyers and world class engineers and drivers couldn't - find the cause. Yes, there is evidence to support he made a mistake, but it's NOT overwhelming eveidence in light of all the other evidence for other things.
I wasn't refering to you on the suspension rod, was others
I still wont believe it and not because he was super talented. If it was something as simple as that there wouldn't be this huge confusion over the cause of his death. You can see from the on board video that the car is suddenly snapped off and strightened up. You even see Sennas head move left more. Your initial reaction to something like that is to turn left, why did Sennas wheels stay stright ? There are also reports of the steering wheel having so much play on the onboard videos that the movement was said to be CMs.
I only told you what the official investigation found out by analyzing the telemetry data and people tell me that this can't be, just by looking at some crappy low-res videos which can give you a rough idea what was happening but nothing special can be seen on this.
I really don't get it why nobody seems to be willing to believe this. But maybe some conspiracy theory is more convincing to most people than facts.
I never said to know myself what exactly happened but the telemetry is the only clear facts that are to be investigated after the crash. A low-res TV-picture just is not capable to deliver any rock-solid facts. So as a conclusion I believe more in the investigation of the facts as in the uncounted theories derived from blurry video material.
But hey, believe whatever you want, I'm fine with that...
What Tristan is getting at, you may have watched something but it probaly wasn't official. If thats 100% rock solid, why does the confusion still go on, why did it take them god knows how many years (and still counting) to still try figure this out ?
Well, I don't think he blacked out. I saw that onboard shot, in the Tamurello, and there he tries to steeds, but goes straight ahead. So it could be a broken steering column, or he bottomed out. I think the last one is most likely. But who am I to say that.
Someone else who notices this . Well my personal conclusion has always been that the steering column broke where the team welded it after Senna wanted it moved away from him. The fact that the steering wheel came out the car broken (okay some will say the impact could have caused it) just adds more to this for me.
Didn't know that the standard ECU would be that configurable.
Still don't like it though as I'd of argued the way to get round the problems would to allow teams a lot more freedom and setting the engine size up to 4 litres to make lower revving engines. I'd of also said that these engine life rules should be scrapped, somethings wrong if someones choosing not to finish 4th because of the penalty they'll have next race
If they can keep the designs moving there won't be time to have to stand around for a year spending hundreds of millions developing exactly the same design as your rivals.
What I was reading (not watching) was an article about the official investigation by the FIA and Williams, containing the official report. You can believe this report or not.
And of course the pictures were used in court as they give you an overall idea of what happened. But they are way too blurry to draw any solid conclusions about the initial cause of the accident.
The telemetry on the other side tells you exactly what the car did and what Senna did. Quite everything is monitored in that data. Suspension travel, g-forces in any direction, steering input, pedal input, whatever you like to have, and all of this at a very high recording rate.
What the telemetry can NOT deliver is for example why Senna did what he did. And it also can't tell you how slippery the road really was outside the racing line and stuff like that.
So it doesn't give you everything one would like to know about it. But I'd rather base my opinion on facts than on unclear observations. And in this case the facts that we have (the telemetry) do not leave too much room for further speculations. At least IMHO.
The thing I'm getting at is this offical report. Why is there still confusion over the death of Senna ? Can't be that solid. That videos have telementary read outs and the on board video called cam car shows a lot IMO.
I've attached a picture of where Sennas car was before it suddenly went stright on. Doesn't look out of line to me. Had he lost the car over a bump he wouldn't just let the car go stright like it did, the wheels point stright on until he hits the wall. Your initial reaction is to turn left, and I'm sure Sennas would be to.
I reckon we will never know what actually happened, only the people at Williams will know. The world we live in today is what makes these things difficult, someone admits the steering column killed Senna. The next thing you know it, the mechanic who cut it and welded it is in court facing man slaughter charges etc.
We all have our own opinions on what happened but I don't think there can be much of a solid official statement as I've never heard of this Senna ordeal being solved with people agreeing 100% on the cause. If it was a simple driver error I doubt such a huge investigation would have gone ahead.
The problem with F1 is that it is a fundamentally unsafe racing format. Open wheels and cockpits cause accidents and injuries that simply don't happen in other forms of racing. What would be a minor nudge in a closed-wheel class can result in a wheel being ripped clean off, or worse, in an open-wheel class. And having your head exposed is obviously risky.
If any of you saw Montoya or JV in cart, you would know why TC is nuttering auto racing, seeing the guys man handle the cars is a thing of beauty, skill, and cojones.
Now with TC, its like an amraam guided missle, *point and shoot*. yawn.
Well said. I took some liberty with your words. One of my huge pet peeves are people papering over the past with rose colored lenses. This seems to happen in all aspects of life. I love when flipping morons tell me about how safe cars were in the 1950's. Or old folks lament teen pregnancy "today" when teen pregnancy fifty years ago occurred at double today's rate.
Oh: Senna made a mistake and paid the ultimate price. Or something broke, although the evidence I've personally seen doesn't support that. Not even a kangaroo court and millions of dollars worth of handwaving could determine otherwise, as tristan and others have noted.
In fact, this kind of stupid bickering over something that is over and done with a decade ago wouldn't be going on if it wasn't for irresponsible government officials and their media-friendly kangaroo court antics. There never should have been all of that public money spent on such a fruitless, pointless exercise. Sillyness in the extreme. The same damn thing always happens when famous people die, because politicians see opportunity.
I was a wee little kid watching that race that morning (live in the US, on ESPN back then IIRC), and it was pretty somber for me.
I was 13. I was REALLY into F1 by then. That morning we sat down to watch the first half of the race, but we were flying down to Maidstone (about 40 minutes away by air) to look at some puppies. When Senna crashed, and it was obvious he wasn't okay, I grabbed the air-radio and began searching through all the stations I could find (at ground radio frequencies) to get some info. It was horrible not knowing. I remember the whole day quite clearly.
We later did get a puppy from that litter (a Bernese Montain Dog) who sadly passed away last weekend from old age. That gog has a surprising connection for me with Senna.
Open wheeled racing cars do have risks attached to them. They are safer than club racing closed wheeled cars and it's only the extremely safe high contact series that actually have safer cars. Given the speed an F1 car reaches (and the number of crashes they have) they are actually pretty safe. It's only in the last 15 years as tin tops have become slower and safer that single seaters may seem more dangerous but your a lot safer in a F1 car than anything you'd see at an average club meet.
