there was my problem when switching both sims

Quote from baSh0r :

there was my problem when switching both sims

I had the same, going from LFS to iRacing I was shit slow until I adapted, then I become only mediumly slow. Then going back to LFS.. I kept wondering why the barriers had magnets in them

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

iRacing heavily relys on it to be fast, and once you get the hang of it, it becomes quite natural feeling.

as Hyperactive said:

Quote :

Sure, most of the skipppie vids you find on youtube are with amateur drivers but still, not even on one corner do they steer like in iracing

Makes you wonder about all those going lengths to express how much iR would be so much more realistic than LFS... I actually miss Hyperactive's posts, though I did not agree 100% he always took the time to argument his own views. His biography says "quitted lfs" Android XP is another long time no see oldtimer, I hope he hasn't quit too

</rant>

Quote from NightShift :

LX6 Weight dist:
48.0 F 52.0 R

That's because the driver almost sits on top of the rear axle, and the front axle is in front of the engine, and the body and frame work are larger at the rear end. It's got that skinny little nose with the "bicycle" wheels at the front and a wider back end (the Caterham SV and CSR are wider than the older Super 7's).

An example movie with more subtle steering inputs, from Grand Prix Legends. My web host has put a cap on download speed per connection, so it will take about 50 seconds before the video starts streaming. It's a dual view video and in the bottom screen you get a clear view of the steering (and apparent drift) angle of the car. After the second hairpin, Greg Stewart (the driver in this video), makes two right turns with a lot of counter-steering, then on the high speed right hand turn the fronts are kept a bit inwards. It's difficult to see the small amount of induced understeer during corner entry, I don't know if Greg was a left foot braker. On the very last turn, another fast right hander, a bit of induced understeering is used.

http://jeffareid.net/gpl/gplrngs.wmv

Again note that induced understeer is used in the real world on some classes of race cars (squirrely non-downforce cars). I recall a comment about some spec class racing with "evil mid-engined Clio's", where the car had to be make oversteery to get through the slow turns well, but required some induced understeer during corner entry and high speed turns where heavy throttle is required just to maintain speed.

Also the video in my first post was an extreme example. Real usage is much subtler, as noted in the gpl video here.

Quote from senn :

GENERALLY speaking FWD's will push understeer most of the time, i managed to get a corolla with modified suspension to snap oversteer, but i entered the corner with a fair idea that it would snap over on me....ie too quick. I think you'd have to be pretty unlucky (or have a dynamic load in the rear of the car, large fluid filled container, or unrestrained heavy load etc) to get it to oversteer...

I had a spin (well, about 270 degrees) in a FWD Ford Escort a few years ago when I entered a downhill right hander too quickly in the wet. Since I was going downhill the dynamic weight distribution was further forward than normal. This, combined with the wet conditions, caused turn in oversteer which I couldn't countersteer quickly enough to catch.

It's not a technique I ever liked because I always found the transition back from induced-understeer to normal cornering (as you exit) hard to get to grips with.

Obviously you're reducing the front grip by steering too far, so if you just gently unwind the steering then you get an oversteer-provoking yaw as soon as the tyres start to grip again, and it usually happens just as you want to jump on the throttle hard too.

Easier to live with the oversteer through the whole corner imo.

Sounds like GPL territory to me, loads of lock and stomp on the power, it seems a lot of drivers did this in the 60's, for example in the picture you can see Surtees has rather a lot of lock on there, even if the corner is fairly tight.

I believe the Lotus 49 was also set up for Jim Clark so he could drive it like that.

This method died out when downforce became effective it seems.

As for me in LFS, no I find steering with the back end easier, which is probrably why im so rubbish with TBO.

This under steer induction by turning more really doesn’t seem to float my boat…
Yes it makes sense… you steer more in order to go way past the front tire’s optimum slip angle.
But what happens when you return the wheel to the center while exiting a corner?
You have to return it really fast or else you are in danger getting again oversteer and this time it might me worse trying to put the power down in an RWD car.
In the LFS video we can see unnaturally fast wheel movements that really can’t be replicated in real life.
Anyway, the wheel is there to use it, controlling the front wheels slip angle can be used in any way the driver wants. But really I don’t think that this is the way to drive any “modern” car… racing or not.

im pretty sure thats the hairpin in monaco which requires a lot of steering

Quote from kaynd :

This under steer induction by turning more really doesn’t seem to float my boat… Yes it makes sense… you steer more in order to go way past the front tire’s optimum slip angle. But what happens when you return the wheel to the center while exiting a corner?

The idea is to stop the induced understeer at some point before corner apex in the slowing down case. In the high speed turn, heavy throttle, squirrely car case, the tires are only turned in a bit inwards more than normal, so that an oversteer turns the front tires even more, bascially the throttle is floored, so the only input left is steering. The goal is to maintain a bit of a 4 wheel drift by steering inwards just a bit. The drivers that do this state there's no sudden transition into heavy grip if they relax on the front tires, because the fronts are already turned in a bit for even normal cornering.

There's always some slip angle on all 4 tires in a turn, and normally the front tires have a bit more slip angle than the rears, at least on a rear wheel drive car. (When was the last time you took a turn with the steering centered so same slip angle for all 4 tires?). The induced understeer is just adding a bit more slip angle at the fronts so that they go before the rears do. In a high downforce car, there's a rearwards bias in the downforce to reduced oversteer tendency in high speed turns (as mentioned before).

I remember using something like this in slow corners with the early S2 FZR to get it from oversteer to some kind of 4 wheel drift, but it wasn't as much a driving technique but more a natural feel from the setup. Corner entry oversteer, 4 wheel drift at the apex and then little understeer at corner exit, which made it perfect controllable.

The massive lock as seen in the video i only used, like sam, in real life to prevent a spin in my BMW and i don't think that this kind of driving is usable for fast racing.

Quote from kaynd :

In the LFS video we can see unnaturally fast wheel movements that really can’t be replicated in real life.

That's what I thought too... I don't think it can even be replicated on a FFB wheel unless the lock is set to unrealistically low values (at least for the road legal cars).

Quote from JeffR :

An example movie with more subtle steering inputs, from Grand Prix Legends (Greg Stewart is the driver in this video)

Re-encoded the video, this one will stream right away:

http://jeffareid.net/gpl/gplrngss.wmv

Watching the LX6 video, that is... weird. The idea of inducing understeer to cure oversteer is a totally new concept to me. But it seems to be a very clever arse-saving technqiue, you learn something every day!

I actually find myself doing this very often when racing the FZR in endurance races. In a lot of situations where the rears are getting hotter than the fronts, if you are controlling oversteer with countersteering then the rears get hotter and hotter while the fronts stay cool. Sometimes balancing oversteer by turning past peak grip at the front removes the oversteer while keeping the tyre temperatures more balanced between front and rear.

Edit: This technique obviously only works at corner entry or mid corner. You always want minimum steering lock on corner exits in RWD cars.

Perhaps a better description of this method would be induced all wheel drift via steering inwards inputs in addition to throttle inputs.

I do this in the UF1 and sometimes the XFG but not in RWD cars

I used it sometimes but find it hard

lol now that i know waht its called..ive used this in quiet a few racing games
just never knew i was doing anything special :P

Quote from Glenn67 :

I do this in the UF1 and sometimes the XFG but not in RWD cars

hey ..

if its in a ff wouldnt that be more commanly known as a torque steer?

Quote from driftoner :

hey ..

if its in a ff wouldnt that be more commanly known as a torque steer?

Does the UF1 have torque I've never noticed any

But yes I guess your right, I tend to deliberately get it into an oversteer state on corner entry then use excesive in ward steering input in combo with floored throttle to control trajectory through appex.

now your speeking my laungage!!!!

thats coz we are aussie

Quote from driftoner :

hey ..

if its in a ff wouldnt that be more commanly known as a torque steer?

IIRC torque steer is when the torque being transferred from the wheels to the ground causes the steering to "tug" one way or another. Generally cars with high output engines and a FF layout are most effected, i can't remember which does it more tho, those with an LSD, or those with an open centre diff....i vaguely recall LSD's being worse, but it has been a while.

TMK it's not something you really want while racing.

Quote from NightShift :

From what I read that technique is used frequently by iRacing and GPL players.

It's a technique best employed in low-downforce cars, which suits much of iRacing and GPL's vehicle base. I find myself using it a lot in LFS in cars to which it is suited, without realising it. I remember a buddy watching me drive the LX6 and consistently inducing understeer instead of correcting the way most people would. I didn't notice myself doing it, but he did, apparently.

Quote from MAGGOT :

It's a technique best employed in low-downforce cars, which suits much of iRacing and GPL's vehicle base.

Well this definition encompasses most of the vehicles out there, I would say more than half the cars in LFS and maybe all of them if high downforce = ground effect, since it's not in LFS yet.