Quote from DHRammstein :

I wouldn't use the "technique", because it would severely damage tires, flat spots.

Flat spots occur when the wheels are stopped. In an oversteer or understeer situation, the wheels are still rotating. There's excessive wear and heat on the tires, but it's all around the tread, not in a single spot. In the case of the 1967 Formula One cars modeled in Grand Prix Legends, a set of tires would last an entire race, (also they carried enough fuel for the entire race, so no pit stops).

Quote from JeffR :

Spec class racing with "evil mid-engined Clio's"

On a side note, talk about a car mod. The rear wheel drive Clio V6 Sport has the engine where the rear seats would in a normal front wheel drive Clio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Clio_V6_Renault_Sport

some people do it without realizing it by steering too much going into the corner.

I still think that understeering will be faster than induced understeer to counter lift throttle oversteer. That thing can help you avoid go get off the track but damn it slows you down quite badly.

if you enduced understeer and powered over and kept the front locked while gaining speed it wouldnt be that hard,ofcouse that sounds alittle far fetched and damn difficult but could still quiet possibly be practised and preformed

It can also be used as a technique to slow the car down more. In karts, especially in the wet where you can't really trail brake too hard. You quickly put the steering on full lock with some brakes on and it slows the kart down more effectively than just braking, because in a kart as most of you know they only have rear brakes, and it's not great for stopping in low grip situations.

yea if i brake too late i turn the wheel nearly full lock to slow the beast down.

its mint

Quote from driftoner :

i think its perfectly valid.

ive seen it preformed a number of times in real life racing and also seen this preformed in the mud during rally races.

also the video declaires that its valid in lfs.

Could you find some video and link it here please? Thanks

I remember reading an old interview, that I can't find now, with either Chapman or someone else who had worked close with Jim Clark. One comment that stood out was Clark's remark on steering into a slide to correct oversteer.

It's something I've managed to do in both simulators and karting, though not intentionally and mostly when trying to correct bigger mistakes.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Could you find some video and link it here please? Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... hJR1E&feature=related

Check 1:44. I think he did it.
He almost never counter steers the entire movie

Sorry Tiago, I try, but I couldn't see this movement in that video.

What I see was just small corrections very normal in those type of cars (anyone who has played GPL knows that).

I think this technique is too risk, even in a simulator with good feedback like LFS. In real life, to create this balance seems to be very hard to trust in. Any grip recovering and you will find the rear going away or the front going inward.

I think all LX6 needs is a good setup and too much countersteering to manage with its rebel behavior.

I'm still waiting for some real video with this movement very visible, and done on purpose.


edit: about the polling, I don't think people has understood the question, or have been totally honest. Maybe many has voted before read. I never see anyone doing this movement, except noobs that don't know countersteer. Now after voted, I see 33% of "YES". Come on, I simply doubt.

It is very subtle otherwise he would loose speed. Clark was very fine in controls
The video in lx6 is extreme

Quote from JeffR :

How many racing games are there where induced understeer works? The ones I know of are Grand Prix Legends, LFS with certain cars, and GTR2 with most cars.

nkpro 1.0.3

Ah come on, I use this technique and I ever have notice. Dumb...illepall

I was playing iRacing and than I realize that I was doing this movement to recover from a oversteer, but I use brakes. And I have made this many times before... duh...

I just use this technique for recover, but it slow down the speed a lot. I've never used for gain lap time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGSnLGgeai8

Here's some footage of Collin McRae. In the first example of understeer, he induces it. Although judging by that, it's probably not the best technique for rallying Some great driving though, from the legend himself!
I think it can be used effectively, though.. But I think it'd be more of a 'worst case scenario'. In fact, I'd think it'd be faster (for me) to just correct the oversteer on turn in (just enough to stop the rears from totally losing traction) and have a bit of a slip angle/drift through the turn, rather than inducing understeer then waiting for it to turn.
The only time I ever induce understeer is, as Dave said, when the front tyres are getting too cold in a stint. But that's not to correct oversteer. When I do it, i just brake too late, and turn in hard, about 180 degrees of ratation on the wheel (into a hairpin or other tight corner) until you hit the apex. It's sometimes as fast as taking the turn normally, but never as fast as taking the turn with the rear stepped out a little on turn in I don't think.
Actually come to think of it, I think Rudy uses this technique a lot, not sure if he knows he does it or not But I think he does it to wash off speed into a corner, rather than taiming the rear end.

what what what what what do i do ?

turn the wheel fast into a corner and making the front wheels screech... Like in the go kart so you can jack or lift the inside rear wheel... Know what I mean?

yea thats prolly what i do not used to anything else ( not in all lfs cars though )

with those soft sticky tires you just need to do that to be fast in ala gokartos

Quote from '[DUcK :

But I think he does it to wash off speed into a corner, rather than taiming the rear end.

I think that this is what most of the peoples, who voted that they use inducted understeer, do.
It's really common and nearly most hotlaps are driven this way.
But this is used just as a slowing down while turning teqnique, shredding the tires and taking advantage of the sometimes abnormal slip ratio the tires can hold in many sims.

If it’s a teqnique which the driver knows and users when it's needed, it’s ok… but many drivers really don’t know that they are turning too much in their effort to go faster… And then they blame the setup for hot tires. :Kick_Can_

Haha! Agreed
You know I only just realized that this is why I do that in my kart. Brake too late, but when you're coming off the brakes, with say 15% brakes still on, you turn 'too hard'. It washes off speed then points the kart in after the fronts find some grip after the initial scrubbing

I have noticed using it occasionally to balance the car on medium to high speed corners, but that really depends so much on car, track and setup. When running a soft set, it's probably safer way to stop oversteer in high speeds because countersteering could result in rapid weight transfer and bigass tankslapper.

On iRacing, I didn't use it much on Skippy because it's rather forgiving when it comes to small slides, but Formula Mazda snaps back so fast when you countersteer that I'd rather saw the steering a little to keep rear in check.

im going with speed soro.

the technique in the origanal video is way too extreme .
when i use this technique i may do it only slightyly but still follow it up with countersteering.

I voted no. But now that the idea has come to my attention I will keep the technique in mind next time I play LFS.

No.

I somewhat..well it just don't get logical to me, and for me I just automatically turns the other way to straighten up the car. Alltho I see the good sides about it, I just prefer the way I drive now.. the other just seems..unatural to me, even if it's natural haha

Well, I just watched the example video from the first post and I think that this technique will make you slower than to countersteer in these kind of situation. Also I can`t get the idea out of my mind, that this technique is especially helpful for keyboard or pad users, because the video showed a very very fast reaction, and very less precise and small steering angles. But in general I would try to setup the car with a very grippy front end and a loose but not too oversteery backside. I use the G25 for driving on 900 degrees, which seems to be a little too much, but I like the very precise driving you can manage with it. Long talking short sense, I won`t use this technique. But it is fun to read this thread! And in case of IRacing: I once tried it and did not like it so I won`t play it anymore, also because it is WAY too expensive compared to LFS...and LFS is THE driving simulator in my opinion and you can throw away everything else! And to make a point about the Scirocco and all the complaining about the release: It will be released sooner or maybe later, so let the dev`s do their work, which is very very well till now and always remember: NFS is developed by 100+ people and is complete rubbish:gromit:, LFS has only 3 and is nearly perfect!

Since there's some confusion about this, just wanted to clear it up.

Quote from kaynd :

used just as a slowing down while turning teqnique

Which is point of this method as stated in the title of this thread, using "induced understeer to counter lift throttle oversteer", allowing a car to slow down (via tire scrub and/or trail braking with a rearwards effective brake bias (due to engine braking)) while still turning in. It's only intended to be used between corner entry and corner apex.

Normal countersteering should be used between corner apex and corner exit, since here the goal is to accelerate, and the driver can just reduce throttle and countersteer to correct for excessive throttle input.

The other time induced understeer can be used is as a preventive measure on some non-downforce cars in a very high speed full throttle turn, where the fronts are only turned in just a bit extra to settle down a oversteer prone car into a 4 wheel squirm (not quite a drift).