I know that are other threads comparing LFS and other simulators, but this is one to compare LFS against iRacing and EVo in one thing that I noticed today.

I think other have noticed it before, but I hadn't.

It would be better to have a video to show the glitch, but I think it will be possible to explain just with words.

The scenario:

Take a open wheel car in all 3 games.

LFS: FOX
iR: Skip
EVO: F3

So, get in the track in a straight and reach a reasonable speed, something like 80 km/h.

Then press full brake to lock the front wheels, and turn a full course your steering wheel to any side, and pay attention to the front wheels.

You'll see that in iRacing and EVO the front wheels don't turn completly, but it will turn slowly while them recover the grip, due the decreasing of the speed.

In LFS the wheels turn all the course them should turn (because you have a bar conecting your steering wheel to the wheels, of course).

The fact is: iR and EVO are WRONG!

I think they calculate the recovering of the grip, and them point the wheels to the right direction, the direction that the car should be moving when recovering the grip due the decreasing of the speed.

Sorry the English errors. If you didn't understand what I'm saying I'll try to explain again.

I repeat that I think that many people here has already noticed it, but I have never realized.

One thing that I was thinking is about camber e caster changing due movement of suspesion.

I still think that iRacing and EVO are wrong, but I have no sure. I know that LFS really calculates the all interation between suspension arms and wheels, and in fact it can be observed online. So I tend to trust more in LFS than the others.

I think there are here most experimented drivers (real and simdrivers) that could help to analize better this thing.

did you make sure each setup had the same brake pressure?

I'd like to see a comparison video.

Quote from GP4Flo :

I'd like to see a comparison video.

:iagree:

I don't understand what you mean. And what is EVO by the way?

GTR Evolution

Check for speed sensitivity steering. ISI engine uses this value, it must be 0.
Iracing i dont know. If this is true with iracing then its very bad

Quote from Sueycide_FD :

did you make sure each setup had the same brake pressure?

The cars are different, the speed are any, the brake pressure have no effects on this.
I fully steer the steering wheel, and the wheels, after speed decrease almost to zero, turn a little bit, as if it had a rest of course to complety.

Quote from GP4Flo :

I'd like to see a comparison video.

Sorry, I'll not make a video, cause I dond't know how to do it (I don't have FRAPS, and I don't intent to install), but if you have EVO, you can the same test.

Quote from tiagolapa :

Check for speed sensitivity steering. ISI engine uses this value, it must be 0.
Iracing i dont know. If this is true with iracing then its very bad

I don't think this is about control lag or something. It is about IMO:

- Camber/Caster changing after suspension returns to its natural position (what could be right).
- Grip recovery (what would be wrong, I guess)

Please, try a test with some of these both games (iR or EVO) and you'll see.

In IR, there's an option, "limit car's steering at speed" move the slider to the highest possible value, and that does not happen.

just do what he said and check your controller options... at least evo will offer you something to turn speed sensitive steering off

Quote from Shotglass :

just do what he said and check your controller options... at least evo will offer you something to turn speed sensitive steering off

I'll try it, but a question is, is this kind of effect something possible in the real car? What is the purpose of this, I mean, I know what it does, but why to give a help to the driver that does not exist in the real car? Or does it exist?

I think BMW have incorporated something similar in the current 5 series,dont know if its in any other BMW`s or other manufacturers.it reduces the steering ratio at high speed,supposed to help whilst on motorways.
Tango

As posted above, seems like speed sensitive steering. However as an interesting bit of trivia regarding braking and steering quirks in games, I offer this video from GPL where braking and steering right results in a left yaw.

http://jeffareid.net/gpl/gplrs.wmv

Jeff, thanks for posting that. I just reinstalled GPL and I thought I was going crazy or just somehow not steering correctly. I wonder if this is a known thing- I'd never heard of it- and if it's been fixed in the mods like '66 etc.

Quote from Montoyafan :

I just reinstalled GPL and I thought I was going crazy or just somehow not steering correctly. I wonder if this is a known thing- I'd never heard of it- and if it's been fixed in the mods like '66 etc.

It's just some wierd car and setup sensitive quirk. For the Lotus, the braking balance had to be around 52% to 54%, outside this range, it doesn't happen. I don't know if any other cars had this issue.

I'm not sure what issue you're having with GPL in general though. The visual perception of speed is less than the actual speed, so that takes a while to get used to. Other than the large amount of working slip angle, which makes it seem like you're drifting through every turn, GPL doesn't feel that much different than other sims to me.

Quote from Speed Soro :

So, get in the track in a straight and reach a reasonable speed, something like 80 km/h.

Then press full brake to lock the front wheels, and turn a full course your steering wheel to any side, and pay attention to the front wheels.

You'll see that in iRacing and EVO the front wheels don't turn completly, but it will turn slowly while them recover the grip, due the decreasing of the speed.

The fact is: iR and EVO are WRONG!

I can't say anything about iRacing, but as Evo uses the ISI engine, I can relate it to rFactor. Aside from steering speed sensitivity, there's a line in your controller.ini (inside folder Game Data>Your Name) which adjusts your steering to get you out of pits easier.

If you can't find speed sensitivity steering option in game, use this two lines.

Steer Ratio Speed="0.00000" // Speed at which low speed steering lock override ends (for pit navigation, units are meters/sec, 0.0 to disable)
Speed Sensitive Steering="0.00000"

Steer Ratio Speed setting can only be changed from the controller.ini file, and is supposed to help people getting out of pits, but it has a bug which doesn't cancel itself on track. And it's 20 m/s by default (72 km/h). Just change the value and try it again .

At least this is how it works in rF. Not sure about evo though.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Sorry the English errors. If you didn't understand what I'm saying I'll try to explain again.

I don't have a good english, and I don't understand what you want to say, any can to explain me please? I have iRacing and I can to make a video, I have interest on physics comparations

Quote from Napalm Candy :

I don't have a good english, and I don't understand what you want to say, any can to explain me please? I have iRacing and I can to make a video, I have interest on physics comparations

Please, do this test:

Get in the track, any track, in a straight, with Skip Barber.

Reach a speed like 80 kph, then brake hard, so the front wheels will lock up.

As soon as you brake, turn the steering wheel to one side, any side. Do it to the full course.

The front wheels will turn to the same side.

Observe when the car stops, or when it is almost stopped, that the front wheels turn a little bit more.

In LFS you can do the same thing, but the wheels will not turn anything more after the car stops.

Did you understand? If someone with good English could explain better...


Talvez voce entenda portugues melhor: pegue o skip barber, numa reta qualquer, e alcançe uma velocidade em torno de 80 kph e então freie forte. Assim que começar a freiar vire o volante totalmente para um lado e espere até o carro quase parar ou parar por completo. Então repare que as rodas da frente vão virar um pouquinho mais, como se ainda houvesse curso para isso. No LFS isso não acontece. As rodas atingem o fim de curso e quando você para elas não se mexem.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Please, do this test:

(...)

Talvez voce entenda portugues melhor: pegue o skip barber, numa reta qualquer, e alcançe uma velocidade em torno de 80 kph e então freie forte. Assim que começar a freiar vire o volante totalmente para um lado e espere até o carro quase parar ou parar por completo. Então repare que as rodas da frente vão virar um pouquinho mais, como se ainda houvesse curso para isso. No LFS isso não acontece. As rodas atingem o fim de curso e quando você para elas não se mexem.

Eheheh! Nao sei se falar brasuca com um espanhol resulta...ás vezes nem o portugues entendem...:P

É melhor esperar que um espanhol traduza...:P

__________

In english:

Speaking brazilian to a spanish guy might not be the best option, sometimes even in portuguese they don't quite understand...

It's better to wait for a spanish guy to translate...

Quote from Speed Soro :

I'll try it, but a question is, is this kind of effect something possible in the real car? What is the purpose of this, I mean, I know what it does, but why to give a help to the driver that does not exist in the real car? Or does it exist?

There is no identical option in a real car. It's useful in sims if you use a wheel with limited turning range (such as 240 degrees) to enable full steering lock while stationary or at slow speed (to help leave the pit box, for example), while still allowing linear steering with a realistic steering ratio while racing at higher speeds.

Quote from Liff :

There is no identical option in a real car. It's useful in sims if you use a wheel with limited turning range (such as 240 degrees) to enable full steering lock while stationary or at slow speed (to help leave the pit box, for example), while still allowing linear steering with a realistic steering ratio while racing at higher speeds.

Basically correct. However, BMW does now have speed sensitive steering. The steering ratio increases as the vehicle slows down. This enables you to negotiate the sharpest corners without ever having to take a and off the wheel. You just turn the wheel with both hands to about 160° or something like that and you will be at full lock as long as you are going slow enough. At higher speeds, the steering ration goes back down to a more normal value. I don't know how it would react to a situation like described above though.

I hadn't thought about this before, but lets say you wanted to drive an exact radius corner as you were slowing down. You put in the exactly correct steering input at 100mph and then start slowing. Would you then have to keep taking steering input out as the car slowed? Weird for sure.