Quote from Vykos69 :

just say: The test, where the Merc A-class flipped

Yea, that one..
C'mon guys, is it really possible that there is no picture of that test on the net at all.. How did u find the exact data for that ISO 3888 test.. ?? If it is not top secret

http://www.consumerreports.org ... 107mit0.html#Anchor-49575

Check this out... it's a Pajero (Montero) using the moose test (although in the US). It's got a somewhat detailed picture of the course layout

Quote from Rotary :

http://www.consumerreports.org ... 107mit0.html#Anchor-49575

Check this out... it's a Pajero (Montero) using the moose test (although in the US). It's got a somewhat detailed picture of the course layout

Hey, thanks alot!!! This is what i was looking for.. If i only knew to convert inches to metres(centimeters) THANKS!

edit: don't know if this is some american version of the official test?? Because they don't mention anywhere in the text that it is an ISO test, or the "moose" test... Anyway, i am gona make a layout of it..

Yeah they don't but I found the above from this aritcle - http://www.choice.com.au/viewA ... 77&tid=100008&p=1

when I clicked on the roll-over test link

Edit: Oops, Yes, it's an American version of the Moose test I just watched the video of the Pajero getting on two wheels, scarey shit, lucky it had roll over bars!

Edit 2: Hey I swore and it wasn't censored

I don't think I read this enough. I actually thought he was making a joke about making a test to test avoiding a moose. Then I looked at his picture and it's the same exact thing, so that confused me more. Then...yeah...Anyway, that video is awesome. I love how the cars roll almost identically.

Quote from xapexcivicx :

I don't think I read this enough. I actually thought he was making a joke about making a test to test avoiding a moose. Then I looked at his picture and it's the same exact thing, so that confused me more. Then...yeah...Anyway, that video is awesome. I love how the cars roll almost identically.

You mean the exact same thing as the Layout KidCodea has atached.. because it's not the same test.. or you think that i was joking with this test?? It really exists, and it is an official car stability test, and they call it that way, because it was originaly founded in Sweden where there are alot of Moose on the road...

Nice video.

It amused me that there is a little caption saying 'Real Life' and 'LFS' under the relavent part, just in case we weren't sure

we built the 3888 layout using details showed on bm vid

Quote from durbster :

That's where LFS really shines, the transfer of weight from one side to the other and any time that the tyres still have grip. The problems come when it loses grip. You can't quite see in the vid that the back end wants to step out but if you've played LFS at all, you just know that another half second in either direction and it would have lost it.

Interesting comparison. I'd like to see something similar but with the car losing it a bit first. Might do a hunt around the web sometime for a video to try that with

Before I start - I like LFS - OK, I enjoy it - especially the FOX.

BUT - that video highlights exactly where i feel LFS's shortcomings are. IN the real video, the reaction between steering wheel and car motion looks sharp, connected, tight. In the LFS video - it looks like there's a piece of rubber pipe in the middle of the steering column somewhere, it's 'soft' somehow, and the LFS video needs opposite lock at one point.

A great piece of work - but imho, it highlights LFS's shortcomings more than promotes it's realism.

Doug

Quote from djellison :

Before I start - I like LFS - OK, I enjoy it - especially the FOX.

BUT - that video highlights exactly where i feel LFS's shortcomings are. IN the real video, the reaction between steering wheel and car motion looks sharp, connected, tight. In the LFS video - it looks like there's a piece of rubber pipe in the middle of the steering column somewhere, it's 'soft' somehow, and the LFS video needs opposite lock at one point.

A great piece of work - but imho, it highlights LFS's shortcomings more than promotes it's realism.

Doug

But you are forgeting that 98% of people don't have DFP wheel which really simulates a real car wheel, so you gotta think of that...

Also, it's already been said that this video was done using an older physics model than what's in version S2_P.

Personally, I think that LFS has the best physics model of any game out there, by far. Once you get a decent setup for the cars they seem to handle very realistically.

Now that i watched the video many times, it seems that wheels behave almost exactly the same in real video and in-game.. so...

Quote from Boris Lozac :

it seems that wheels behave almost exactly the same in real video and in-game.. so...

?

At no point does the real video require opposite lock, and at no point does it look like the car is sliding a great deal, if at all. The same simply can not be said of the LFS footage.

Quote from djellison :

?

At no point does the real video require opposite lock, and at no point does it look like the car is sliding a great deal, if at all. The same simply can not be said of the LFS footage.

That is such a slight amount of opposite lock, you could rule that it is just the deadzone playing around in the game.

I find myself going sort of straight and using opposite lock to compensate for the center-steer reduction/smoothing LFS has.

That's what I think that is.

Quote from Tweaker :

That is such a slight amount of opposite lock, you could rule that it is just the deadzone playing around in the game.

Deadzone doesnt make itself apparant at the cockpit wheel - that would only show if the video showed the person driving LFS.

It's actually 30 degrees of opposite lock, at a point when the real driver has 38 degrees of positive lock.

It's not even the ammount that bothers me to be honest, it's just the simple fact that the sim needs it at all, and the real car doesnt. The two just dont look the same.

Doug

Quote from djellison :

Deadzone doesnt make itself apparant at the cockpit wheel - that would only show if the video showed the person driving LFS.

It's actually 30 degrees of opposite lock, at a point when the real driver has 38 degrees of positive lock.

It's not even the ammount that bothers me to be honest, it's just the simple fact that the sim needs it at all, and the real car doesnt. The two just dont look the same.

Doug

Maybe the wrong term. Not deadzone, but ever try the steering wheel compensation in the game? Slow but loose steering in the center, and faster the farther you go.

And, the real car footage at the point, or before the point, that this opposite lock occurs, the real driver twitches the wheel as if he had understeer or to come out of the turn faster. The VW has a lot more stability, I'll accept that, but just a hint of opposite lock in LFS doesn't mean the car was sliding.

Quote from Tweaker :

but just a hint of opposite lock in LFS doesn't mean the car was sliding.

If the LFS car wasnt sliding - then THAT steering input should have put the car straight into the cones on the left.

You can see the LFS is moving around - it's fairly obvious - there's a softness to the entire run. In the real video, it all looks sharp.

Doug

Ya I'll agree with Doug here. It's like the reactions of the car should be faster in LFS.

I'd also like to point out that for the thing to be really valid you would need to have the same inputs for brake and throttle as the driver did in reality. In reality until he brakes the gas is floored. Then he modulates the brakes and in the last part he uses both. In LFS throttle is modulated in the 1st part, then brake and gas and then only gas is used.

Guys, keep in mind a few things:

1) This video was made on an older physics build of LFS.
2) This is comparing a real car to a fictional one

The fictional car does not have the exact same setup as the real life car. The weights, spring rates, damping rates, etc. are probably quite different. So, the two shouldn't look exactly the same.

I would really like to see this done with the RA instead, since it is a real life car. Of course, the suspension in-game would need to be set exactly the same as the real car's suspension for it to be a valid test. A longer track would probably be better as well. I don't think LFS could match the real life physics exactly, but I think it could come close. At the very least it would be more apparent where any discrepancies exist. And it might even put the "slippery tire" debate to rest.

Yea, that would be great.. Maybe Top gear, Fifth Gear, or some car show could do that test with the RA.. Or the RA guys themesefls..

Quote from djellison :

If the LFS car wasnt sliding - then THAT steering input should have put the car straight into the cones on the left.

You can see the LFS is moving around - it's fairly obvious - there's a softness to the entire run. In the real video, it all looks sharp.

Doug

I guess I am having trouble explaining. I'd show you what I mean with a video, but fraps isn't working for me right now.

I just say this because with the LX6 for example, which I've been practicing for the NAL league quite a bit, the setup I have has such fast steering (the way I like it) that I sometimes prefer smoothing it out with the smoothing features in the game. Turning in the opposite direction while coming out of a turn most of the time never points me in the other direction. It is a loose feeling in the center, where to a certain point the range of movement with your hands has nearly no affect on the car's steering/direction... or at least has such a minor change.

It's too hard to describe, just the way I've noticed how the steering works if you have the Steering Compensation on quite high (like 1.0) to smooth things out.

Try it.

Quote from Nick_ll :

I'd also like to point out that for the thing to be really valid you would need to have the same inputs for brake and throttle as the driver did in reality. In reality until he brakes the gas is floored. Then he modulates the brakes and in the last part he uses both. In LFS throttle is modulated in the 1st part, then brake and gas and then only gas is used.

I agree, the driver is a big variable. Supposing the GTi is exactly like the Golf in the video, if the LFS driver deviates even a little bit from the video in terms of inputs and timing, it could set off a chain of events that make LFS seem less accurate.

Well, that VW Gold obviously doesn't represent all fwd hatachbacks that were ever made. I would bet there are some, that would require opposite lock in such a situation, just like the GTi does, in the video.

It's nothing that couldn't be evened out with with setup tweaking.

Exactly...

On the setup 'correction' that keeps on cropping up, this is only valid if the setup you end up with is within real world parameters, ie would not wear tyres incorectly (toe / camber/tyre presure), was idiot proof (lift off oversteer, default understeer) and had a good 'ride' (grandma's teeth say put)

Simon