Quote from Jertje :

It's been stated many times that the development teams are split in such a way that physics, track and car development are separate entities within the iRacing development team.

In which case it's obvious that the content makers are more than earning their salary, and the guys in charge of the core simulation features have been on holiday for 5 out of the 6 years of development.

There is no excuse whatsoever to still have none of the features i mentioned. If Scawen and Kunos can manage to implement them in their sims then the multimillon dollar, huge staff project that is iRacing should have them, and should have had them from release.

iRacing is great in so many ways (i like it far more than i thought i was going to) but hugely lacking in others, and theres no excuse for it at all.

The races are clean and produce a tension i've not experienced in public server racing before, but it all feels a bit "gamey" at times and that is hugely disappointing.

Quote from The Moose :

There is no excuse whatsoever to still have none of the features i mentioned. If Scawen and Kunos can manage to implement them in their sims then the multimillon dollar, huge staff project that is iRacing should have them, and should have had them from release.

Well, there's no brake wear/heat in LFS, netKar Pro has terrible collision detection, and so on. LFS hasn't had an update for a year, but I don't think the devs have been on a holiday all that time.

Quote from Liff :

Everything except the too matte shader looks absolutely fantastic.

You think? Either I need an eye test, or real life has got a bug, because the world sure doesn't look much like that to me.

Still looks alot better than LFS does...

Quote from Liff :

Well, there's no brake wear/heat in LFS, netKar Pro has terrible collision detection, and so on.

Between those two sims and the ISI sims there are all the features i mentioned, but yes, none of them has all the features. iRacing really should have though with all the time and money they have/had.

Currently theres no point whatsoever in having a clutch pedal in iRacing. Thats a sad situation for the "most realistic sim" Flat shifting everything is ridiculous in this day and age. I'm not saying LFS or nKPro (Formula Fords) have got it spot on, but they at least force you to drive in a far more realistic manner than iRacing.

(nKPro's collision detection is not good, very true, but i've got a few replays of equally shitty collision detection in iRacing. The netcode is far from perfect. I've seen cars two feet apart have collisions, and cars driving through each other that haven't racked up any incident points. The best detection i've seen so far has been in rFactor, it seems iRacing and nKpro's netcode doesnt come close to that quality)

Quote from tristancliffe :

You think? Either I need an eye test, or real life has got a bug, because the world sure doesn't look much like that to me.

The world doesn't look like LFS, nKPro, rFactor or any other sim I've seen either. They all do a pretty good job (well, not so much cartoon factor) of conveying what they are suposed to. It really i s going to be a long time before graphics look truly like the real world. GT5 looks to be the best so far, but to get the detail of the tracks, objects and cars iRacing has with those sorts of graphics aint going to happen anytime soon.

Quote from tristancliffe :

You think? Either I need an eye test, or real life has got a bug, because the world sure doesn't look much like that to me.

The graphics in other games would be a better reference point than real life.

Quote from The Moose :

The world doesn't look like LFS, nKPro, rFactor or any other sim I've seen either. They all do a pretty good job (well, not so much cartoon factor) of conveying what they are suposed to. It really i s going to be a long time before graphics look truly like the real world. GT5 looks to be the best so far, but to get the detail of the tracks, objects and cars iRacing has with those sorts of graphics aint going to happen anytime soon.

Gran Turismo is certainly getting there, I just look forward to a day when sims have graphics at that level.

Quote from Jertje :

It's been stated many times that the development teams are split in such a way that physics, track and car development are separate entities within the iRacing development team. If they stop working on cars, it only means that they stop releasing cars, not that they can magically start improving physics at a faster rate. The car modelling teams would just be doing nothing; they don't magically convert to physics engineers and immediately integrate into a completely different team efficiently.

They might not be experts, but a helping hand is a helping hand nonetheless...

Quote from The Moose :

In which case it's obvious that the content makers are more than earning their salary, and the guys in charge of the core simulation features have been on holiday for 5 out of the 6 years of development.

There is no excuse whatsoever to still have none of the features i mentioned. If Scawen and Kunos can manage to implement them in their sims then the multimillon dollar, huge staff project that is iRacing should have them, and should have had them from release.

iRacing is great in so many ways (i like it far more than i thought i was going to) but hugely lacking in others, and theres no excuse for it at all.

The races are clean and produce a tension i've not experienced in public server racing before, but it all feels a bit "gamey" at times and that is hugely disappointing.

I said that (not as explicitly, but still) in a thread about why people don't subscribe(!) and got told off to be able to "hold off until I think there's enough features implemented" to make my monies worth... iRacing certainly isn't lacking fanboyism...

Try mentioning the development speed of LFS on this forum for a true display of fanboyism..

iRacer #1: iRacing doesn't have enough subscribers because they don't work on new features

iRacer #2: Well if you don't like it then stop subscribing and come back when its better

iRacer #1: Ok?



Unfortunately that seems to be the attitude over the some times, certainly doesn't help things out much.

The thing is, they've been very careful not to announce new features until they're 100% sure that they can implement them properly. We don't really know what's in the pipeline. As for gearbox modeling, I doubt anyone would be happy if they just implemented very simple model with no damage or clutch slip.

Also, probably the largest barrier of entry is pricing.

Quote from Crommi :

Also, probably the largest barrier of entry is pricing.

Definitely, people complain about a lot of other things from the service but I don't think there are many sim racers out there that wouldn't pay $50 to buy the game. And once people have it they will race with it more often. The fact that subscriptions end and people can't race any more is why there aren't enough racers in iRacing. Plenty of people try it out, but there isn't enough there to make everyone stick around with prices as high as they are.

That's why them adding more and more content annoys me. It seems like they're just trying to attract more new people all the time. They need to focus some energy on making current subscribers happy so they stick around, and it just doesn't seem like they are doing much from my point of view. And this is coming from someone who likes the service and plans to resubscribe without question.

I don't think it being subscription based is bad, but at it's current price its not good value and it's not attracting as many people as it would if it were lower.

The amount of subscriptions sky-rocketed during the 3 months for half price offer. I bet less than 20% of those guys will stay.

Price is still the main barrier to most of the guys i know that would otherwise try it.
If it were half the price i believe they would easily double their subscription rate. Alternativly if it were the price it is now but you got the content for free it would also be very appealing to a lot more people.

As it stands i really dont know what to do. I love the racing, but the way it's set up i dont do more than 2 races a week. I generally score good points in my first race early in the week, and i found that later on in the week i never seem to find such high SOF races, so its pointless me racing any more because i'll only loose points. I really dont feel i'm getting good value for money, and as money is tight i really have to wonder if its worth continuing.

Of course the downside of that is that iRacing feels so good that other sims just dont cut it anymore (nKPRo still feels great, but theres next to no racing going on).... If i give up iRacing i might as well give up sim racing, period. That'll be a sad day


EDIT..If any one says "it's cheaper than real racing" I'll scream Anyone that thinks comparing a computer sim to the real thing is a valid argument is lacking something in the brains department.

This substriction is not a bad thing, i would even personally try it, but paying for every new car/track 15-20$ is rather to much for me .

Quote from UncleBenny :

Definitely, people complain about a lot of other things from the service but I don't think there are many sim racers out there that wouldn't pay $50 to buy the game. And once people have it they will race with it more often. The fact that subscriptions end and people can't race any more is why there aren't enough racers in iRacing. Plenty of people try it out, but there isn't enough there to make everyone stick around with prices as high as they are.

That's why them adding more and more content annoys me. It seems like they're just trying to attract more new people all the time. They need to focus some energy on making current subscribers happy so they stick around, and it just doesn't seem like they are doing much from my point of view. And this is coming from someone who likes the service and plans to resubscribe without question.

yeah, totally agree, it is frustrating seeing content after content. However, they do have a strategy and that strategy is part of their longer term goal.

They are pumping out the US tracks probably because of an agreement with organisations such as NASCAR, where they might need to get each track on their agenda.

That said, each season (3months) we do get large updates. At least that keeps people playing and involved in the game rather than no updates at all ***cough***

Quote from UncleBenny :

iRacer #1: iRacing doesn't have enough subscribers because they don't work on new features

iRacer #2: Well if you don't like it then stop subscribing and come back when its better

iRacer #1: Ok?



Unfortunately that seems to be the attitude over the some times, certainly doesn't help things out much.

Ok, so then many users leave because iR doesn't add new features, then what do you think will happen? At the moment it is probably more people are joining than leaving, so they are thinking "if it is not broken, don't fix it".

Quote from Byku :

This substriction is not a bad thing, i would even personally try it, but paying for every new car/track 15-20$ is rather to much for me .

I have always felt that they could lower the prices of cars and tracks. Why a car or track costs more than the one month subscription is beyond me.

Quote from PMD9409 :

...... Why a car or track costs more than the one month subscription is beyond me.

Have you ever tried to make a decent car skin let alone a whole laser scanned track? The amount of work that goes into it must be enormous! Frankly, I'm amazed at the work done even by modders and track makers on rFactor who don't get paid a penny and quite often get abuse from ungrateful tykes. 'This mod sucks' etc. etc. Take a slow drive round any iRacing track and try to appreciate the work that's gone into it.
At some stage we'll all have to wake up and realise that stuff has to be paid for and if the quality is as good as iRacing's, then it's worth every cent.(or penny)
EDIT: And another thing; all this talk about pricing is stupid. However low the price of anything is, somebody won't be able to afford it. There have been threads about the 'high' price of LFS for God's sake, the best £24s worth EVER!

I'm pretty sure iRacing has thought pretty carefully about the whole "new content vs fix what's already there" thing. iRacing wants to make money, and they seem to have concluded that new content is more important than clutch modelling etc for increasing (and maintaining) its subscriber base. If they'd thought different they would have changed their strategy.

Personally I've got both feet firmly planted in the "fix what's already there" camp, but I realise we're in the minority. Those of us who want brake heating, clutch modelling and engine damage are typically more serious about simracing than the average iRacer. And being more serious about our hobby means we speak with loud voices on forums and such. But we're still in a minority, and that's why iRacing has chosen to ignore our calls so far. From a business point of view it makes perfect sense.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Ok, so then many users leave because iR doesn't add new features, then what do you think will happen? At the moment it is probably more people are joining than leaving, so they are thinking "if it is not broken, don't fix it".

Well I think that is the problem, it is broken. They have to realize that eventually they are going to run out of people to try the free subscriptions. I guess maybe their plan is at that time they will have more features working and can bring old players back. I actually suggested that on a thread over on the iRacing forums, that maybe in 6 months or something I'd love to see iRacing give a discount to people who had let their subscription run out to come back and try it again and see if things are better. We'll see how it goes.

Quote from atledreier :

Try mentioning the development speed of LFS on this forum for a true display of fanboyism..

No need, it seems a new fad to complain about LfS on the iRacing forum, I'll just rant there...

Seriously, nobody in his right mind here would disagree when you say the development speed is (too) slow... However, once you start with development has stalled or you demand Scavier accepting your business strategy people will challenge your post, and rightly so...

Quote from PMD9409 :

Ok, so then many users leave because iR doesn't add new features, then what do you think will happen? At the moment it is probably more people are joining than leaving, so they are thinking "if it is not broken, don't fix it".

iRacing say they have 12000 members, I guess about half (or more) of them with a frozen account... Wouldn't you agree that getting those 6000 back and holding them would be easier (and cheaper) than to attract thousands more for a quarter or less? Especially bearing in mind that those 6000 have already shown interest and intention of driving in iRacing...

Quote from The Moose :

The world doesn't look like LFS, nKPro, rFactor or any other sim I've seen either. They all do a pretty good job (well, not so much cartoon factor) of conveying what they are suposed to. It really i s going to be a long time before graphics look truly like the real world. GT5 looks to be the best so far, but to get the detail of the tracks, objects and cars iRacing has with those sorts of graphics aint going to happen anytime soon.

for me the single most important thing to realistic graphics is the palette that being used
gt5 is too gray and too cold
netkar is the same
rfactor is just way way too saturated and slightly cold
and iracing seems to be too saturated and slightly too cold as well

i genuinely get the feeling that eric is the only guy currently working in sim racing texturing who either works with a monitor calibrated reasonably close to srgb or isnt slightly colourblind

gray and cold seems to be the brown of simracing
you do get the feeling that somehow texture guys got it into their heads that the gray and blue filters used for car ad photography and top gear are what the real world looks like

Quote from Gnomie :

that's why iRacing has chosen to ignore our calls so far.

I wouldn't say iRacing has ignored us as a whole. It's one of the areas I think iRacing has done well with. There are a lot of things they change each 3 months based on our thoughts. i just think that they have a strategy and they have resource already placed. They can't just change it over night and reallocate resource.

I'll be interested to see what updates we get at the end of this series

Quote from Gnomie :

Personally I've got both feet firmly planted in the "fix what's already there" camp, but I realise we're in the minority. Those of us who want brake heating, clutch modelling and engine damage are typically more serious about simracing than the average iRacer.

Yup, I keep failing to consider that people who are into iRacing may not want "hardcore" simulation. It's just a little bit frustrating when they advertise as being a "Training tool", knowing it's really nowhere near it.

I guess as long as people keep falling for the hype and beliveing that what they are racing is as close to realitly as it gets, without complaing about the lack of features, nothing going to change.

I've noticed a lot of the long timers have quit due to iRacing not going in the direction they thought it would, but as long as iRacing bring in more than they are loosing then they dont care. As you say, from a business point of view that makes sense.

I thought they had a vision to make the greatest racing simulation as well. Apparently not

Quote :

Corvette is behind schedule. Release date unknown right now.

Q to all, what is so hard about that car? I've been hearing about it being up-and-coming since at least June 2008! It's becoming the Scirocco of iRacing