LFS is a racing simulator, not an everyday driving simulator (though the cruisers would probably disagree!). What applies on the road doesn't always apply here. Also, I have used trail braking on my current car (which is a Volvo automatic) and I'm trying to learn how to left foot brake better. Techniques from racing can be useful on the road in certain situations. If, for example, you're in a corner and you see a car stopped in the middle of the road up ahead, you're going to have to brake in the middle of the corner if you want to avoid that car. Trail braking can help you to understand what's happening (vehicle dynamics). Or you can learn to stay out wide on corner entry to give yourself a better view out of the corner (if you turn into a corner and hug the inside line you can have a more restricted view and your exit will be tighter than if you'd stayed towards the outside of the corner until the apex). If you spend your time on the road driving in idea conditions ("I'm going to brake in a straight line for this corner then change down gear then turn in") you're going to be unprepared for unexpected situations where you need to do things like brake in corners or change down gears when braking.
Good job being 100% counter productive to your argument. :rolleyes:
They were saying that forcing the clutch is to even the playing field since it's tougher to drive taht way. You argue against it, giving stupid reasons and examples (like how "real cars" dont have good pedal spacing for heel toe, despite the fact we're talking about a GAME), then you acknowledge the more difficult technique used when auto clutch is OFF? Fail.
True I agree with you, in some situations.. but hold on there buddy, you and I both know that we probably know more about our cars and how they handle than most others on the road.
I tried to left foot brake my dad's GMC Jimmy.. that was a very bad decision on my part, never again will I two foot an automatic!
As for braking in straight lines, not.. necesarily, you have more time to react, if you are trail braking and you get mid turn and something happens, you are much more likely to disrupt the dynamics and throw the car off its path than the guy lazily going around the corner at a slower entry speed.
@king you need to end with that fail thing.
Plus what you just said doesn't make any sense really, of course I acknowledge it because toe heel is used every day by race drivers.. but what does that have anything to do with autoclutch, that's just the current off topic discussion.
My argument against it is that not everyone can afford a clutch etc.
To be honest I don't think you've demonstrated much of a knowledge of vehicle dynamics as I said above. I consider myself a novice but I like to learn. I read books, I watch videos of drivers etc.
Because LFS has been a racing sim for everyone since its start. You didn't answer my question though. You are excluding people who are just as enthusiastic as yourself (though with different goals of how to play the game) in the name of fun, or the "experience" of the game. Other than being a control freak and wanting everyone to have the same goals in the game as you, I can't really understand your motives.
Driving is using inputs to control a vehicle's motion. That's what I do, that's what you do, that's what mousers do. We can all be just as dedicated to the game.
I don't know what I think of them, but why do you take issue with it? People bragging are annoying regardless of whether or not they're "right" or "wrong" about their bragging. Besides in all my races I've hardly seen anyone brag about owning a G25, so many people do it's not really anything special. Some people who just got one after months of playing LFS may be exited about it and mention it, but that's it.
There are a few reasons I'm against this. The first one is personal, I don't want to be in XCNuse's position of not being able to find a decent server while everyone is excited about this new feature. It would really blow to see patch .6A or whatever it might show up in and realize "oh shit... I can't play in my favorite servers because they all only want to play with their own kind".
Secondly, I hardly even see the point. I don't feel as if I have any advantage over wheel drivers, so it can't be performance. I don't take the game, or individual races, any less seriously because I don't have a wheel, so hopefully it's still not "argh casual drivers ruining my racing experience, raping my children/G25s". From my point of view I really do see this as only a form of needless elitism and control that doesn't add or take anything away from your driving experience.
Some people decide to play the game a little differently, but that doesn't mean anything for you. That doesn't mean that you're going to suddenly have less fun if someone who uses a mouse joins your server.
Wow dude, are you really that dense? Race drivers use heel toe because it's the BEST WAY to downshift a manual into the corner. Likewise, LFS drivers use heel toe when given a clutch/h shifter setup! Is it that hard to understand? Why would we be so foolish as to copy what successful race car drivers do in LFS cars because the real life counterparts might not have the correct pedal spacing? :rolleyes: The reason it relates to autoclutch is because autoclutch makes it a lot EASIER to do! Goodness gracious...
Hence why only a minority of servers would have this option on.
Get me in a car and I do, maybe not written down but otherwise I know what I'm doing.
Chances are if you race LFS and don't wreck everyone or yourself, I'm pretty sure anyways that you probably know more about driving than anyone.. I should say _In America_ then to make it more clear.
I wouldn't go as far to say it's the best.. It is just what is done nowadays.. who knows, someone may figure out a better way.. else.. how was toe-heel invented?
Also.. autoclutch in LFS is really not that great when downshifting to fast, it jitters a lot I think..
Hence what I said earlier about force cockpit and its abuse.
Well, it does if you have a group of people who are all using wheels with manual clutch and manual transmission then someone joins the server who's using auto clutch and sequential because you know straight off that they could have an advantage over you. Say if tomorrow Scavier implemented a tuning system where you could upgrade your car with points you earned racing online. Some people would get a lot of points and be able to improve their car's performance relative to a standard car. Now if you're still driving a standard car and someone joins your server with a car that's got 10 bhp more than you and weighs 20 kilos less you're probably going to be quite annoyed because you know he's going to beat you unless you're an exceptionally good driver or he's an exceptionally bad driver. I see the auto clutch option in the same way. If you let server owners restrict their server to only people who use a manual transmission with a manual clutch and a steering wheel everyone's on a level playing field. Controller type and "driver aids" (which is what auto clutch is) don't come into it.
Riiiiiight. Like how we should ignore common racing technique since it may not be doable in the real life car cause of its pedal spacing?
Nowadays? It's been done for decades. Show us a better way of doing it, Oh Great One.
I've never had a problem changing view in servers. I always use cockpit view, but i do like to mess around with other views sometimes and have never been specced or kicked because of it. Just the other day, me and some friends tried racing with TV cam.
I don't know if you were around, but early on when Scawen was messing with the controller types, when the MRT came out specifically is when the keyboard 'stabilized' came, an argument like this was similar where people thought it was unfair for those running stabilized.. as you can see though, everyone got over it and there was no limit, just other people calling other people panzies for driving with a stabilized keyboard.
It all just came down to user preference.. Some people today don't use stabilization while a lot do.
I drove with keyboard today testing out sounds, I tell you what.. I couldn't drive at all without stablization lol
No you're just confusing the context from when we were talking about real cars and nothing to do with LFS.
Uh no, but how do you think the guy that came up with toe heel felt? There is always something better out there, you just haven't found it yet.
Don't be so snappy.
You also haven't been part of LFS that long.
About the keyboard thing, I wasn't at home I was just messing around and got bored with Rigs of Rod (great game.. its free.. download it! enjoy it!) uhm. As for not being great.. you sure? A lot of the WRs used to be mostly keyboard and mouse users believe it or not.
Your point would hold water if auto-clutchers were routinely at the top of leagues and races in general. As I said before I don't really feel like I have any advantage over clutch users. Your argument is almost entirely theoretical and if not, marginal.
I am excluding people who don't use controls alike to those of a real car from the same kind of experience, because it just is not the same with a game pad and I'm fairly certain you will agree with me on this.
I'm not a control freak, I'm not asking for this to be LFS wide, in fact I noted several times now that nobody asked for that. This is still just about a server-side option.
For me it is only driving if my controls match the ones that are displayed on the screen, because that's what's being simulated by the simulation. You may be dedicated to the game, but certainly not to simulating a real car with it.
I do not wish to force anyone into driving for the same reasons I do or using the same input method, I want to be able to race with people opting for realism over results. Auto clutch is unrealistic, therefor it cannot be allowed on a server meant to be used for the most realistic virtual racing experience. What's wrong with me having the option to allow or disallow auto clutch? I'm not controlling anyone by doing so, I just control their access to my race track. That's my right as server owner/administrator and it doesn't make me a control freak, that might just be my set of rules.
Every manual car in LFS has three pedals, a gear lever and a steering wheel, the only realistic input for these cars is a set of three pedals, a gear lever and a steering wheel, ... and a handbrake, several switches, etc. but I think you see my point. Controlling a car in LFS using a gamepad simply is not realistic and on a server where realism is emphasized, forcing people to use a clutch is a perfectly logical thing to do.
Just look at the FCV option, of all the npn-empty servers running right now, exactly 1, yes ONE, has FCV turned on.
Aren't they? I've just taken a look at some of the hotlap charts and auto clutch is on on the vast majority of the quick laps for road cars. If there's an advantage over a single lap it can be multiplied over the race distance plus we need to remember about the possibility of missing gears or wrong slotting.
edit: How many people are there in the hotlap charts who use manual clutch and h shifters?
Yes but who is going to use this option..?
Leagues. That is who.
Leagues have control over everyone anyway, they know who has what setup etc. So really turning on an option isn't going to change a single thing.
All it will do is just be a toy (like I said earlier) for other server managers to play around with for a little while until everyone starts complaining because they don't have a clutch.
Not sure about the edit part, I don't know if the devs have knowledge over that (I guess they could though..)
We need to set a basis as to which cars though. The only cars you can use an H shifter or sequential is the lower end cars (and FZR) I can see it almost making a difference in FZR, but anyone makes so many mistakes per lap the time difference I just .. I see what you mean, but I still think the time difference is so little it makes up for all the mistakes.
I still think my idea at the beginning was a good idea.. weight penalty for using an auto clutch vs not.
