So must I repeat once again that we are talking about a server side OPTION
I never said, nor implied, that only fanatic hard core simmers deserve to be part of the LFS community, it was from the start and still is a suggestion to add a server side option.
Do you realize what that means? People are given a choice, it's not a LFS-wide restriction, it does not affect anyone offline or on servers with the option turned off.
Is it really that hard to understand what this suggestion is about? There seems to be a common misconception about it.
Besides, you didn't even bother to read my posts, yet you are calling me a douche... wow, now that's what I'd call a real douche.
I very clearly stated - several times - that it's not about results, I don't care one bit. You make the assumption that I can't keep up with auto clutcher users (checked my race results, haven't you? Oh wait no, you certainly did not) and that it somehow would be a reason for me to cry about. Your whole last post consists of assumptions (with no basis) and swearwords, keep it to yourself please.
This is going no where. You guys don't understand that its an option... You have a choice of having it on like the force cockpit view... So besides of going all up the OP's ass, why dont you lot of jerks READ that this is an OPTION Whats the point of posting ANY kind of improvement if all your gonna do is insult the OP? I mean come on.. GROW UP. What was the point of this Improvement forum if no one can even make a suggestion in a civil matter? You guys need to grow up really. I'm sure you guys are older... ACT LIKE IT AND DONT STICK YOUR HANDS UP THE OP's ASS.... You douches..
How does it feel to be caught with your pants down?
In a hilarious twist, morpha was in fact being a douche from his very first post in the thread. +1 to you for reading the thread (despite morpha's accusations to the contrary).
There is nothing wrong with having the option. Options are great. Everyone gets a choice. You guys can't seem to accept that (a) it's a waste of time for Scawen and (b) you guys want it for all the wrong reasons.
beats me :/ i just thought morphas attitude towards anyone that doesn't live and breath LFS was a bit rank to say the least so no way i would support something to satisfy people with that kind of elitist attitude.
Cant a group of the guys that want non auto-clutch just use a password protected server?? Anyways I say give em the option
Maybe the forums can add another line under the license status so it can say "clutch user" for those that have the 3 pedals, though my momo won't let me have it......
Um can I have an option to filter out all the drift an cruise servers and I'd love an option to filter for server country of origin too, while we are talking about options
But I guess all the above arguments for not having a clutch only option (except for the point regarding hardware equality) could be said about these options also
Sorry mate, the only deluded one here is you. As I stated before, I don't care if you use a gamepad or a mouse, or hate anyone that does, I just don't want to race with people who do use them.
Had a little time to spend on replying on this most likely a troll post before heading out.
You haven't pointed out a single damn thing. Please, I beg you, show me one single common real world street car that has under 900 degrees of lock.
I think I'll have to sig this one.
And here we have it children, the core of all arguments.
Yes, we have all noticed that by now.
A little twitch of a thumb in 0.01 seconds for max lock to recover, or 1.5 seconds for turning a large circular device around. Mmm, yees. I can see it is much easier for wheel drivers.
Wait, so why are you still spurting out your hatred on my posts if you actually agree on the suggestion? Oh, I know: Arguing for the fun of arguing.
Anyways, as a former rumblepad user for my first 2 months in lfs I would have to say it is much easier for me with the wheel. You have that twitch recover, but that's because when entering the corner you twitched and sent the car into a slide. Having your entire steering input crammed into a half inch space didn't help me especially once i got a little faster and was pushing cars more towards their limits.
Really? Then why do you cut out most of what I say when you reply? You did the same thing with the post you just quoted. Clearly if you cut my posts down to stuff like "I dunno man" it looks like you're right. I have no idea where to find out a huge list of steering lock angles on common cars, and I've got a feeling you don't either. Maybe next you should ask me what the meaning of life is.
The developers of LFS came up with most of the cars in the game, albeit with some obvious influences. If they say the car has 720° of lock then that's what it has. They designed the cars and who are you to say that they should have 900° of lock instead?
Actually, I did find some cars googling around a bit. The Lancer Evo V had about 2.25 turns from lock to lock, which is about 810°. The Alfa Romeo 147 GTA has only 1.75, a mere 630°. Oh, and here's a good one, the BMW 3-series. It's got 1.7 turns to lock (though at higher speed active steering increases that).
Ah yes, the old "I'll take something out of context to make someone look foolish" trick.
That was the conclusion of the argument. That you avoided rebutting with your quips. Guess what, quips aren't going to prove anyone wrong, ever. I may call you names, but at least I follow that up with why I feel I'm right in my assertion. If you think I'm being foolish maybe you should try and back up such claims with... well... anything really.
Yes, more stuff taken out of context to make me look silly. You're really good at this arguing game, oh wait... you might take that out of context too... crap!!! If you're not going to bother coming up with ideas based on logic and actual experience then maybe you should just give up.
Wow. Again you're making it out to seem like I said something completely different than what I said. I made a statement talking about how it's more difficult for me to make precise and delicate movements, and you cut that out and talk about reaction times due to the physical input device.
Not only that but you pull times out of your ass to make it look like I can react 150x faster than you. If it really takes you 1.5 seconds to react then you'd already be in the grass before you even attempted a recovery. You're probably too dangerous to be racing anyway if you can't even properly recover from an accident.
Hint: It does not take you 1.5 seconds to steer yourself into a recovery slide.
I believe that for the most part, your reasons (not just you, also some others who have posted in this topic) for wanting this form of segregation are wrong. You specifically seem to be afraid to lose to someone with a lesser setup. Guess what, you'll lose if you're worse than your competitor, regardless of input device. You'll beat people if you're better than them, even if they have the magic speed race enhancing auto-clutch enabled. Some simply look down on those of us without a third pedal. As has been recently pointed out morpha really does seem to think he is more entitled to this game than others.
Not to mention that in the long run this option will be a total flop, almost assuredly a waste of Scawen's time. I have a feeling though that this makes too much sense for you to quote in your next reply, should we ever be graced with it.
Thanks for this. It's nice to know that Matrixi is 100% wrong.
Because I'm a mean bastard, who's tired of writing 1 hour posts on this forum, especially since this suggestion most likely will never come true. You can't call the other party an ignorant, delusional hypocrite with plans to be treated with silk gloves. You get what you give.
If that's what you are basing your ridiculous claims upon, what do you have to say about the fact that the developers do not officially support a gamepad at all? You are driving with controller with ingame settings meant for wheel drivers. What's the icon next to your name in the connection list? Is it a 'W' as in WHEEL? Quite right my friend. In other words, with your own logic, you shouldn't be playing LFS at all since devs didn't find a gamepad realistic enough driving controller to be supported at all in the first place!
Can't say I agree on the EVO, as the one I've driven has 2.5 turns of lock, could be possible that other country import versions differ on that part. You have me on the Alfa, granted, however it's more of an exception than a rule. The 3-series.. which model would you happen to be speaking of? Having owned several of them, I can tell you from this standing, that an powersteered E30 has 1440 degrees of lock (4 turns!), an E36 has 1260 degrees of lock (3.5 turns) and as far as I know E46 has the same 3.5 turns as E36 since they share the same steering components. I recall some TVR that has way under 900 degree lock aswell, but that isn't a very common road car.
There isn't a real world car, with similarity with LFS cars, that would have this low steering lock as the devs have given the cars. That is why, I prefer to drive realistically according to real life physics, rather than what the developers have deemed "realistic".
That was a direct quote, not taken out of context of anywhere. Can't you remember what you've written yourself?
I've given you plenty of reasons, you just choose to ignore them out of your own will just to argue some more.
Again, I and others have given you the reasons and feelings why we want this suggestion in. There is hardly any logic involved when you choose to ignore them.
I think I'm sensing similar feelings here.
The fact is, you do not need precision when steering with a gamepad in LFS when you need to do a quick save. I have tried driving with a gamepad myself (just to see what it feels like, can you say the same about yourself and wheels?) and the same rules do not apply that do in real life. You say you need precision for everything, while you actually don't. You need it for certain things, I grant you that much.
However, it is simply physically impossible in reality, to do what you can do with a gamepad in LFS. You can not escape that argument, no matter what you think you can pull off. And that is why I do not want to race against people using controllers who can pull off manouvers that could not be done in real life. There, said it once again, feel free to ignore it this time aswell.
Have a little look in to my standings, and notice that I'm far from dangerous to race with. 1.5 seconds was simply an example, though a very realistic one if you would drive with a DFP. I think, if I turned my G25 REALLY REALLY fast from one lock to another, it would take about one second. But hey, how would you know this. You don't drive with a wheel, yet you claim to have all the knowledge of driving with one.
Just admit you love arguing.
Not this again. We have told you OVER AND OVER, that standings do not matter. I think this is the source of your whole misunderstanding. If the standing you are at is all what matters to you at the end of the race, I understand you perfectly now. For us, it is the trip before getting to the checkered flag that is exciting, not the standings afterward. That is why we choose to drive with FFB enabled wheels, feeling the cars suspension and tires with your own hands is something you can not get on a gamepad, but if something like that isn't what you care about, you can not possibly understand us.
Again, making up stuff and ignoring what I've said in my previous post. I don't look down at you any more than the next guy. You try to victimize yourself too much. Morpha, like myself, should have our own preference who to race with.
It hasn't been written in the license agreement, that everyone must race against everyone, no matter of the controller. If the "HC" hardware guys want to race evenly against each other, there is absolutely no reason for them not to. It's not like you can go in to a Lamborghini meeting with a VW Polo either. This world isn't built on fairness.
Ah, the good old "waste of development time"-argument. Those just have to work!
Sorry, I can't humour your inner arguing machine any further. I have already wasted too much time writing these posts just so you can get your kicks of calling me delusional and what-not.
Some people thought that FCV would be the end of the world for LFS, and argued bitterly against it even though it was explained to them that it wouldn't affect them.
Same with this option. It won't affect you unless you want it to. If you don't even own a wheel then you'll probably never even notice its inclusion.
Sure, rip it out of context, quote just the first part, which was just a blunt response to XCNuse's simple put-down of the whole suggestion.
This was followed by:
Well I'm giving up, I don't fancy this bashing, you guys have fun.
That's not out of context at all. It's not like you were presenting factual information and I ignored half the data. You were called out for being a douche, and, irrespective of your explanation, it was a rotten thing to say. Perception is what matters here, not your intent.
I just had a look at the server list, 22 of 541 (4%) servers were forcing cockpit view. You're absolutely right, it's not affecting anyone. It was also apparently a waste of Scawen's effort.
This option wouldn't affect many people, mostly because I doubt anyone would actually use it, but also because we all have the choice to race on whichever servers we choose. However, in a time when LFS development is going very slowly, there's no good reason to implement a feature that only a handful of server operators are going to use. Write an InSim app, or ask someone to do it for you.
Don't think it's possible to enforce a certain amount of steering rotation, axis clutch (and h-box?) with InSim at the moment. "No auto-clutch" certainly, but button / macro clutch is manual and faster than auto anyway so it would be inconclusive at best. It requires a bit of dev power to implement this properly.
Why was it a waste? I look for FCV servers if I can, and I'm sure leagues use it quite frequently too. But as it probably didn't take long to code, doesn't change the game for anyone that doesn't want to make use of it, and adds to the realism for those that do, it is a good thing to have.
We could get rid of a lot of LFS (and any other game for that matter) if we ONLY supported what the majority wants.
