I think it's more likely that as we approach a point where is S2 is about as finished as it's likely to get, there's no point delaying the inevitable and dragging it out by sticking more (largely unnecessary) content into that when they could save it for the next stage.

That way from now on, work on S2 will be limited to bug fixing and minor updates for features that are already in, but they have a bit of a road map for once that's done and out. With elephants and a rally pack

Quote from Dajmin :

...

I want pit girls and i want to be able to have sex with them! YEAH! My mum would be proud !

Gah.

You are all forgetting that Demo/S1/S2/S3 are levels of content.
The game engine (physics/graphics) is shared amongst them all.

I wish everyone would stop acting like sheep, especially the TRU hardcore fanboys with their "WHY DONT U GO MAKE UR OWN SIMULATOR THEN! +1+1+1++1+1+1+1". You are all chromosomal retards. We (me basically) are not talking about introducing groundbreaking physics updates or completley redoing the game.

It is the DEVS who keep saying "We're not going to release anything to you until it's READY FOR RELEASE" i.e. good enough/perfect by their standards or bla bla. Great work ethics there, if only they'd ****ing stick to it. Not gonna release a Scirocco in December cause it's not ready? ESP not working as it's supposed to? Wow, tnx a bunch for saving us from all the frustration of driving an INFERIOR CAR. But hey.. releasing KY2/3 with ****ing ZONES OF SHIT THAT ISNT WORKING like curbs that ruin your dampers in any race longer than an hour, that's just fine. KY3 is up to the allmightly LFS standards. Let's go further down the list:

BF1? Immaculate. Good luck driving more than 20 laps without dampers being 70 % orange.

Fixing the "tire physics" in Y patch? GREAT JOB, just.. no words to explain how awesome it was. Racing on R3 tires, introducing R1s for FBM.. which are driven on 1.8 bar COLD pressure. Only thing being proven there is that LFS is developed and "fixed" on GUESSWORK ALONE, and there's plenty of people capable of providing the real life telemetry data to refine the model.

New rims on the FBM!!!!!!1111oneone OMGAWD, how could I have ever lived before those. Totally worth it.

Rotating brake discs!!!111 YAY ur the best devs!!1 I look at those all the time while I'm racing.

And ofcourse, let's not forget THE ONE, THE ONLYYYYYY - ARROW POINTING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WHEN U EXIT THE PITS!!! WOOOUUU!U!U!U!!??!?!1

Fasgking get real. Fix the shit that is broken, dont add new stuff on top. And as far as cars go.. why is everyone so mad about FBM/Scirocco or any real world crap? Forget it. If they can model a Scirocco in 2 weeks to be ready for some german computers expo at the request of VW, then SURE AS HELL they can make an imaginary LMP car so we dont have to drive the SAME TIRED AND UNBALANCED GTR class since 2005. And it's IMAGINARY, no need to REFINE it to perfection.

I'm sorry if u find LX6 @ FE4R a rivetting combo and if you never get tired of driving different things in LFS. But if u put in any time into getting actually good at a particular class of cars, u WILL get bored. So just stop with the "if ur not happy go drive something else" arguments. Yes, I'm not happy. Yes, LFS is alpha software. No, most companies don't charge u for their alpha software, or even beta software. Am I gonna go drive something else? Already did, and physics wise it's not as good as LFS, so after the initial 2-3 days when u get over all the shiny new cars and tracks and actually have to drive a car for a couple of hours - it's not quite worth it. This isn't an argument for LFS to not do anything different cause it's still "better" than the rest. Just turn out more content. Track editor is obviously made and works quite fine. Car editor works well too. So use them and forget about arrows pointing out of pits.

I'ma go bring my blood pressure down.

Quote from JJ72 :

dynamic boob modelling on pit babes

Oh boy, that's a feature !

Yeah, well you can't really count the demo as a valid stage since it's a byproduct of the actual main item. That demo is really the only marketing LFS gets to people who don't already know it. So any updates it gets are irrelevant. Like car facelifts - you get the same car you would've done before, just with some updates.

But something as big as an engine overhaul is a major stage by itself. It takes crazy optimising. I was in the Mythos beta when they suddenly announced a change to the entire way the game was going to play. It was a disaster (and now it's dead) because they stretched themselves too thin.

The engine affects everything so having loads of loose ends kicking about while you do a job that big has "mistake" written all over it.

Dynamic boobs, on the other hand, affected by wind with proper soft shadowing, has "win" written all over it. As the new Ninja Gaiden advert proved

Quote from Intrepid :

There's a difference between showing frustration, and then someone on this thread calling the developers behavour 'twatty'.

I would like LFS to be perfect. I would liek updates everyday but christ almighty I wouldn't call the developers twats. By calling THEM twatty I would be callng myself a TWAT for not going out and actually trying to do what THEY do myself.

You are freakin' lucky! Your lucky that all the sim developers don't sit back and think... we are under charging massively here because I am sure they could charge a whole lot more (just look at iRacing). You lot are treated like freakin' spoilt kids!

The post I quoted from you was an answer to Sinbad's post, and has nothing to do with what Scipy posted. He made a well constructed post, with some valid points in it, and was in no way disrespectful with the devs. Even Scipy´s post, although I may not agree with the wording and tone used, is not so out of order...

Quote from TAYLOR-MANIA :

So, reading between just those few given lines, i'm wondering is that it for S3 then, at least initially anyway? The new tyre physics, a laser scanned track, and another car excluding the VW ? Surely not...

Don't get me wrong, that would be quite an update, but i guess am/was expecting a bit more from the eventual release of S3, such as improved damage for a start & some sort of dynamic function added to the game environment, rather than solely content & some minor tweaks.

But anyway, i'm just reading between the lines here. Too much speculation on it all. There's only one way to find out what will be & that's to wait & see... but i won't be holding my breath...

Well, seeing that, in the end, the difference between licenses is the content, there´s nothing preventing a first wave of S3 content being released, without LFS S2 being considered final in terms of features of the game.

Engine affects everything? Just stfu, I can give u a MatLab simulation of a racing engine with the indiciating p-V diagram and an algorith to calculate all the pressures over the 360°rotation of the crank in half a degree increments. It doesn't get any more accurate than that. All the efficiency factors can be taken from factory produced figures for any type of engine u can imainge. How do I know? I had to actually solve 14 engine related "assingments" ranging from a 2000 rpm 16 cyl diesel to a racing V8. Everything is already known, all the info is there.. so scawen guessing the "inertia" for patch Y is REDUNDANT. He should stop being so british and actually ask for help.

IIRC Scawen has mentioned several times a small list of things that need to be completed before getting rid of the alpha tag, like fixing the barriers bug or breakable wings.

I'd say that, according to his own preferences, that would need to be done before releasing any S3 content.

Quote from scipy :

Engine affects everything? Just stfu

The GRAPHICS engine, not the car engine

bah just ignore him he is one post away from bein the first person in my ignore list

for example he doesnt get that he doesnt need to buy it. if he doesnt like it, he should play something else.... if he doesnt like any other simulation then the twaty lfs then he should play fps or whatever

ffs

Those comparison shots are insane, really is impressive the level of realism going into games these days.

Good news all round i say

Quote from John5200 :

bah just ignore him he is one post away from bein the first person in my ignore list

for example he doesnt get that he doesnt need to buy it. if he doesnt like it, he should play something else.... if he doesnt like any other simulation then the twaty lfs then he should play fps or whatever

ffs

You know what? I think he is in love with LFS.

Or more precisely in psychological terms......he shows signs of Compulsive love behavior, he hate it so much, yet he can't look away from it.

Awsome Looking forward to this.
guess i have to load up cash on my paypal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EG6ynGTPXA
this is what rockingham is gonna be used for

Quote from scipy :

I wish everyone would stop acting like sheep, especially the TRU hardcore fanboys with their "WHY DONT U GO MAKE UR OWN SIMULATOR THEN! +1+1+1++1+1+1+1". You are all chromosomal retards. We (me basically) are not talking about introducing groundbreaking physics updates or completley redoing the game.

If I ran this sim you'd be banned The customer does not always know best! your lucky LFS has the devs it has!

Quote from olaa1 :

awsome looking forward to this.
Guess i have to load up cash on my paypal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eg6yngtpxa
this is what rockingham is gonna be used for

+1

Haha, I Knew it.

I Was thinking wtf is lfs doing on Rockingham track,

The 40 minutes i played this for was amazing!

Quote from Intrepid :

Sinbad you should feel lucky they don't charge a whole lot more. I know if I developed a sim it wouldn't be anywhere near as cheap as LFS. It's a freakin' bargain.

I know it's cheap, I'm pretty sure I didn't say it was expensive, I've never had so much use from a title I paid so little for, the money is not an issue at all.

I've hoped that they would give us something extra to pay for for a long time.

It's the timeframe that would be completely baffling if S3 is "just" Rockingham and one other car, not the money (even if I understand for some it seems unbalanced to pay £12 for a lot of S2 content and then £12(ish) for very little S3 content when you get all other updates for free anyway.)

It will be at least 4 and a half years since S2, when we get this, I'd bet more like 5.

The optimist in me says they'll have other stuff waiting for it (S3) too, 5 years of casual work would produce something, right?

The realist says what have we been told?, nothing, so expect nothing and deal.

The pessimist says, they've just been milking S2 for as long as possible, doing very little in terms of content or improvements, getting people hooked on a "cheap" S2 at £24 and are only considering the next stage because license sales are dropping away- now they want to milk the cash cow that is S3 and this rockingham thing seems like a good opportunity.

I don't think it's the latter, but hey, if it is good luck to them. No skin off my nose, but it would be disappointing.

I think this marks a big change for LFS here..

Originally we considered S1 & S2 as stages of the game including content - this marks the end of this.

We know have game versions - 0.1, 0.3 (S1), 0.5 (S2) etc, which are (at the moment) free (albeit with limited content).

We know also have content - S0 (i.e. - demo) has 3 cars and 1 track. S1 gives you a few extra cars and tracks, and then S2 gives you a few more. S3 will (from what I gather) give you even more cars and even more tracks, however at the moment it's just 1 car and track.

Think about it this way - if you wanted a released S3 with 3 laser scanned tracks and 10 more cars that is (literally) going to take years. Plural. If you want to wait that long, and then spend your £12, then go for it - but Scawen is deciding to bow in a little earlier and pay now and drive some of the cars when they are done, and then the others when they are done (probably to quell the "why are we waiting this sux" brigade).

Yes, LFS development is getting slow - but no-one can really say they feel hard done by with the £24 they've spent - they will STILL get updates to the physics and main program, just no more cars / tracks.

If it's boring and slow - go play something else. nK Pro still works (?), as does rFactor, and whatever pap passes for a racing sim these days - but dont expect to get much love in 2 years time posting on the NFS Shift forum asking where your extra content is without spending a £0.01 more.

seems like people tend to make good news to bad and start flaming as soon as possible, way to go lads, you are awesome, i think i've seen a bit too much crying for today!

Hi there, I'd just like to reply to some questions I've seen asked several times :

1) The laser scanning process

The hardest thing was trying to arrange days. We were trying to get the laser scanning done last year in Rockingham's high season, and there were very few days available. The apr guys needed 2 to 3 days to do the scanning (preferably not weekends). It turned out to be 3 days to get all areas scanned, plus one day when they went there and it was just raining, I seem to remember.

Anyway, I think they took a pickup truck and drove to various points around the track. The laser scanner was mounted on the truck and the camera (which took a photo to add colour) was mounted on the scanner. I don't know much about the scanner but I think the laser beam is deflected by a rotating mirror. That light hits the ground or an object and somehow that is interpreted as a 3d point in space. I'm sure you can find a much better description, I didn't really need to know exactly how it works.

They take scans from various points, to maintain the accuracy and make sure they see the back of things and cover all areas. They stick some spikes in the ground as reference points to line up the data (points in the point cloud) taken from several observation points.

We designed a convenient file format that just had x, y, z, r, g, b for every point which is all we needed. apr stitched the data together and uploaded it for us. The original data is very thick near the scanner and more sparse further away. After thinning and some more processing by me, the file we used was about 350 MB.

2) Licenses and versions

Some people made various comments on this. It's right what some people said - we are moving gradually away from the software versions being named S1, S2, S3 and so on. The S numbers are license names and really refer to the content you can access (cars, tracks, certain functions). It makes a bit less sense now to call the version of LFS "S1" or "S2" . The software is continually developing. Anyway this frees us from having to "finish" S2 before releasing S3 content. It's not clear what "finishing S2" means any more. The LFS software and content can just keep improving and we can gradually do the features and improvements that we want to over time.

One thing we discussed was the possibility of just calling the software "Live for Speed 0.6A" and forget about the Alpha / Beta tag. It's very stable software so doesn't really need those tags. There are several things that can be improved and added but that is beside the point. I hope that explains a bit more what we are thinking. The version number being less than 1.0 does express that it still has a way to go.

If he says Its going to be in S3? Which is NOT Announced yet,

Cant we buy it soon..


I Know hes only announced 1 track with s3

And S3 Will probably be out in like 3 years,

But i wana pre-order it


aswell

Question to Scawen:

Who was the guy watching us play on LFS At Rockingham?

Quote from Jordan2007 :

Question to Scawen:

Who was the guy watching us race on LFS At Rockingham?

He would just be a Rockingham employee, I saw him about in other places on the Sunday as there was a different guy doing it.

Ohh, He was annoying me Kept saying, 'Do you like the game' and Saying About how i done every corner.

The guy didnt seem to understand the sentance..: 'I Play on LFS At home.'

I can't wait to drive the Scirrocco / FBM / Rockingham combos.

Because for the first time ever we can be on track with all real life content.