LFS for me had an instant click that made it work for me. Rfactor did not.
Same thing for me with F1C vs GP series. F1C 'clicked' and GP series did not.

I cannot really explain why, just that one feels more natural to me it it's response.

My first time TOCA was an experience of close racing that was unforgettable. The grinding door to door to get around some corners just amazed me and I really liked the way the game handled. Then I just started to get into TOCA2 and really liked that as well, when I heard about LFS. I tried the demo and never looked at TOCA2 again. LFS was much more lifelike to me and RFactor did not do the same.

I never did really give it a shot though, so I still might like it if I got used to it. But I'm not willing to get used to it. I just do not have enough time to play, so LFS is enough and I REALLY like it since patch U, so this is probably where I'll spend my next couple of years racing

GPL was just too damn hard when trying it first with a joystick, then got a non FFB steering wheel and still could not drive. Then got a FFB steering wheel and I was able to really carefully get around the track. It was still hard, but fun. It did not have the instant click but I kept trying because I then had the time to do that and was sure it was a great game.

So I cannot offer any real comments on RFactor other then: no instant 'click' when first playing the game and not willing to invest the time to make it work for me.

RBR > ALL sims to date.. Too bad modding it for RWD cars and new tracks is extremely difficult (if impossible to the same quality as original)..

RaceCom, we are waiting.

Quote from BWX232 :

RBR > ALL sims to date.. Too bad modding it for RWD cars and new tracks is extremely difficult (if impossible to the same quality as original)..

RaceCom, we are waiting.

The dirt physics seem good in RBR, not convinced at all about the pavement physics. In fact, I wouldn't hesitate to say that the pavement physics in RBR are dreadful. It sure is a purty simulator too though and it's very good over all.

I have never played rF (and don't plan to, since i dislike the other ISI sims), so this is a bit off-topic. But, I did want to address some of the shortcomings that have been listed in this thread. I do think there are some problems with the longitudinal grip of the tires (they don't spin ENOUGH). I *highly* disagree with statements that the road cars are too easy to spin now. They behave very realistically if you ask me.

I drive a RWD, ~250hp car daily. No traction control, no ABS, etc. It's easy for me to get the tail end out, even not driving under the limit. And my car has had quite a bit of suspension work, so it handles better than stock. It's also very, very easy for me to spin the tires for quite a long distance. I can do the same thing in my wife's FWD 140hp car as well, since the weight transfers off the front tires.

The fact that the FZ50 will oversteer, get sideways, etc is not surprising to me at all. It's got more horsepower than my daily driver, which can hang the tail out almost at will at anything under 50mph. The fact that it doesn't spin the tires for about a block is a shortcoming in LFS, in my opinion.

Quote :

The fact that it doesn't spin the tires for about a block is a shortcoming in LFS, in my opinion.

No, not when the weight distribution is 62R38F! RWD Porsches of avg power don't lay super long patches, they squat and take off like heck. There is A LOT more traction available at the rear in the FZ50, not to mention fat tires. Gear the FZ to match the equivalent Porsche (trans & diff) and you'll see what I mean. Watch Tiff's test of a 911 GT2 and notice how fast it gets up to speed after dropping the clutch. Some wheelspin at first, but the things just goes. ( and that's with 470+ horsepower, it's a twin turbo)

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

No, not when the weight distribution is 62R38F! RWD Porsches of avg power don't lay super long patches, they squat and take off like heck. There is A LOT more traction available at the rear in the FZ50, not to mention fat tires. Gear the FZ to match the equivalent Porsche (trans & diff) and you'll see what I mean. Watch Tiff's test of a 911 GT2 and notice how fast it gets up to speed after dropping the clutch. Some wheelspin at first, but the things just goes.

But that excuse doesn't work for all the other cars in the game. The FWD cars also have a hard time just turning over the tires. My friend used to have a beater 80's Dodge Colt. FWD with about 100hp. We could EASILY lay rubber in that car just by dumping the clutch at 5krpm because as the weight shifts back there's none on the tires. The FWD cars in LFS don't behave this way at all. I must admit, I haven't used perfview to check the results, but I'd be surprised if ANY of the cars in LFS can roast the tires for more than a few seconds. In real life, even slicks have trouble getting grip without VHT on the track.

Alright, when I get home then I'll gear a couple of the cars like standard comparable road cars (maybe a VW Golf for GTI) and an SRT-4 for the FX0, then I will head to the autocross area and see how much distance I can lay rubber over and how fast the car's going when it hooks up. Should be no problem with the distance measuring tool! Don't forget the importance of gearing obviously. Not to mention a road car setup, maybe I'll use bob's old ones. SO: Set the FWD cars up with suspension and gearing similar to a real road car, and test the results at autocross... That's my plan and I'm sticking to it.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Alright, when I get home then I'll gear a couple of the cars like standard comparable road cars (maybe a VW Golf for GTI) and an SRT-4 for the FX0, then I will head to the autocross area and see how much distance I can lay rubber over and how fast the car's going when it hooks up. Should be no problem with the distance measuring tool! Don't forget the importance of gearing obviously. Not to mention a road car setup, maybe I'll use bob's old ones. SO: Set the FWD cars up with suspension and gearing similar to a real road car, and test the results at autocross... That's my plan and I'm sticking to it.

Be sure to let us know the results! I don't think any of the cars in the game are close enough to my daily driver to be a good comparison or I'd try the same thing.

edit: I just tried laying some rubber in the GTI and the XRT (had to use the mouse since I'm at work. ). I must admit, they're spinning the tires for a lot longer than I gave credit for. I wasn't able to measure the black marks, and I was using Race_S setups with just a little added height and softness, but it doesn't seem as far off as I first thought. I was dropping it into first with the revs pegged. Normally, just mashing on the gas, it doesn't do that. I wonder if it's the auto clutch at play that's throwing me off?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

The dirt physics seem good in RBR, not convinced at all about the pavement physics. In fact, I wouldn't hesitate to say that the pavement physics in RBR are dreadful. It sure is a purty simulator too though and it's very good over all.

Yeah Eero Piitulainen said he wasn't satisfied with that part either.. but as far as how accurate they are, there are a lot of circumstances where other sims fall apart and RBR seems more believable.. It is hard to say what exactly is going on in the RBR physics engine sometimes, but it doesn't have very many quirk's that other sims do. Just like setups in LFS, setups matter in RBR.

The main point was that the guy who is responsible for the best physics engine ever made for a sim (some have said- for gravel at least)... is making another one.. and I am hopeful that will give us another great sim to play. He's concentrating on tarmac this time from what I have heard, as well as possibly complex soft surfaces like in RBR. Should be an interesting year next year! By that time I am thinking LFS will have another update too though, so we'll have to wait and see what happens with that. I'll play them all..

@cue-ball :

Easy to explain. At the moment something is wrong with spinning tire grip in LFS. They have to much grip.

1. They will accelerate much better spinning and therefore car is quicker in higher speeds, where engine power isn't sufficient to spin the wheels further ...


2. They generally have to much grip and therefore engine would need even more power than in real life to spin them.

Thats why they don't spin as long as in RL.

Greetings
RIP

Quote from RIP2004 :

@cue-ball :

Easy to explain. At the moment something is wrong with spinning tire grip in LFS. They have to much grip.

1. They will accelerate much better spinning and therefore car is quicker in higher speeds, where engine power isn't sufficient to spin the wheels further ...


2. They generally have to much grip and therefore engine would need even more power than in real life to spin them.

Thats why they don't spin as long as in RL.

Greetings
RIP

Well that just confused me a little, because in that scenario you mentioned, it seems they would spin less than in RL- more in LFS? maybe a a double negative I didn't pick up on. But less grip = more spinning right? Or are you talking about JUST longitudinal grip and not lateral grip? I think you lost me on that one.

I'm so glad to be a LFS fanboy.

Quote from SimAQ.com :

So, ISI got the nod to create the mod to help the F1 team promote themselves and their sponsors… which includes Intel. The bad news for race sim fans is that this mod won't be available for home use any time soon, as it's a privately commissioned mod for BMW/Sauber's corporate use.

http://www.simhq.com/_all/all_020d.html

This might have been what Scavier didn't agree with for that "not-beneficial-to-LFS term" probably. But I don't know, I don't want to confuse things

The Sauber will come to rFactor eventually, though. Just "not any time soon".

Quote from BWX232 :

Well that just confused me a little, because in that scenario you mentioned, it seems they would spin less than in RL- more in LFS? maybe a a double negative I didn't pick up on. But less grip = more spinning right? Or are you talking about JUST longitudinal grip and not lateral grip? I think you lost me on that one.

Yes, you understood me. I just talked about longitudinal grip. Cue Ball said, that the wheels don't spin as long and far as in real life. And thats the explanation I think ...

Sorry for bringing an old topic but I was just wanted to get some opinions on RFactor as it is to date.

I'm currently pretty bored with LFS so I kinda need another online racing SIM to waste my time on and make me realise how good LFS is, so I thought RFactor would be a good idea.

But the thing is it's alot deerer than LFS is and i'm not willing to pay that much for a game that I may well get bored of very quickly. So I was wondering if someone would sell me their account cheap or let me borrow it so I can give a verdict on the game.

Regards,


Ray

Try the new demo at least which they released last month. It has BMW-Sauber, some other car and 2 tracks. No MP though.

That's exactly why I didn't download it, no multiplayer, that's the one thing i'm looking for in a game, so if the game isn't particularly good but the MP is I will play it (And going by whats said on here, RF isn't to good on it's own)

I have not attempted rFactor online, but I do own a copy and have raced it quite a bit at home. I can tell you that car setups are very different than LFS and there are some annoying quirks in their physics. You need a much more powerful GPU and computer to get decent frame rates out of rFactor as compared to LFS. The sound is really, really bad. Tire scrub and squeal is very uncommunicative. The engine sounds are really bad samples that don't tell you squat about what the car is doing.

All the cars will understeer with just a slight turn of the wheel when you are at anything above 30mph. You really can't dial this out of the cars with setup. You can make the cars oversteer, but only when you don't want them to. It is almost like weight shift is not modeled in the sim.

The reason I have it is because I do occasionally want to drive on tracks that exist in the real world and because I am playing around a bit with track modding. rFactor does offer this capability. There are a lot of bad tracks out there, and some really odd mods, but there are some pretty good ones too. Overall, as compared to older EA games, rFactor is better, but it still comes nowhere close to the driving experience you get in LFS. rFactor can be fun, but it is also frustrating because the cars just don't behave like you expect them to. The AI are far better in rFactor as compared to LFS though.

I have tried the nKPro demo, and found it felt and drives very much like rFactor. The sound is even worse in nK Pro. I also had some trouble with frame rates.

So, sorry for not being able to tell you about online use... I really should try it out there too.

I own both, and enjoy both equally. i think Rfactor is a bit more pick up and play than LFS, but that LFS has more satisfaction as you get your lap down that tenth. Rfactor is also a single player game, so if my internet packs in, i still have something to fuel my driving needs (lets face it, lfs has basically no single player)

although now, with Rfactor getting Monza either tommorow or monday, which includes the old banked oval, in total, 6 combinations of the Road and oval track, including the classic GPL track (the full oval and road track)... Im definetely looking forward to this, but doesnt mean im going to stop playing LFS. i just play whatever im in the mood for.

edit: online in rfactor is allright, but not great. most servers are passworded, and the ones that arent are usually full of newbs that cant turn a corner. the occasional good close megane race is good though.

summing up, LFS is an online game, and rfactor is SP. thats my honest opinion.

if you want mods - whats wrong with racer?

cool i didnt know rfactor had a new demo it lets you try out the BF1 on nurburgring gp.

Can anyone give me a link to the new demo with the f1 in it plz

Quote from rc10racer :

Can anyone give me a link to the new demo with the f1 in it plz

http://www.gamershell.com/news/31788.html

i think thats it - enjoy!

I'm in the same boat as Hallen, only I like it ever so slightly less.

I'm not quite prepared to sell my licence as I use it occasionally to 'learn' a track (either for discussing a track, working out photography points or to drive on it), and rFactor remains the best for this. Just don't expect it to behave ANYTHING like a real car would.