Really like '46664' idea!
Really like '46664' idea!
Lol @ the GT2 roof 
Yea i was like that when i seen the job paul did but his hdd with all the psd skins on is playing up so was a quickie just to get the skin done.
yeah yeah
hdd packed in on me, only things on there were skin psd's i hadnt backed up since Sept 07, and my LFS/Games folder. Took a frozen loaf and bag of peas to get it working too. Wouldnt have been redoing the nFinity skins a 2nd time that much i knew then!
With this pathetic insistance on having skins for media day, R1 qualifying, season qual... it was hard enough resisting the urge to remove the R1 names and logos and replacing them with my thoughts on the importance of such a pointless requirement, instead... im saving them for here.
Despite the history for it, my own gullibility see's me suprised as each needless rule appears. It really is approaching obsessive levels of self importance and need to demand things that make sod all difference except punish those who foolishly dont comply and potentially ruin their races.
All this while numerous rules which have been in place for a number of season get ignored by all, including admins who are supposed to enforce these rules, whether their stupid skinning rules or on-track ones, either they're rules or they're not, and if they're not being enforced they should be removed instead of it being a farce having them in there and picking and chosing what rules to observe as the season goes along like its the flamin FIA. It least 3 fairly common long-term rules were ignored, with admin's knowledge (one being their own actions), and that was 1 race.
By MoE's own standards this rule is invalid, based on the 'hasnt been inforced in earlier rounds, so it'd be unfair to do so for other rounds' as at least 5 skins violated the rules last round, and i didnt go even looking either. If you're not going to enforce existing skinning rules, why create new ones? It just makes a mockery of the whole thing.
I was going to highlight the fact that 3 completely different rules were ignored (despite admin's being aware of these breaches) after the race, but the fact that its always me moaning about inconsistancies and irregularities I ignored it because it always gets out of hand and usually anything i say is intentionally taken out of context to counter the arguement, but as more and more rules of no benefit to anyone racing are introduced to punish and spoil their races, I feel its only fair to speak up as im sick of seeing non-racing rules introduced and being penalised to force an non-racing objective. If people are going to be penalised for using a race skin in a qual session, yet others can turn up ignoring rules in place for 3+ years and the admins are okay with that, its a disgrace. Either ruin peoples races for breaking harmless rules, or dont. Simple.
What happened to it being about the racing? When was it more important to have shiney pretty skins so the people watching on a low-quality stream can see something that looks like a 512 skin 99% of the time, and less about providing entertaining racing where people are only punished for their actions in-car out on the track. Why cant we just focus on racing, the one aspect of this series which actually matters, and have other things as nice additional extras which dont negatively influence what everyone signed up to do, which is to race in whats regarded as the best series in LFS?
Always nice to hear from you, Paul.
Especially with awesome posts like that! +1 from me, all this media bs is getting too much, although sometimes it may not look like it, we have lives.
Disclaimer : Just me talking, nothing to do with my team :P
+1 Paul (for a change)
My next comment is not directed to DWB at all, but to the way that alot of LFS events seem to be going...
"I really think that putting too much emphasis on silly rules and penalising drivers for the actual race for not meeting some stupid rule that has been invented by an over officiated, power hungry rule maker is completely against the ethos of LFS. This sim is different to other sims in the fact it is so accessible, so please don't start ruining it with some bs made up rules to please the admins ego.
Yes, if someone is cheating, penalise them.. If someone doesn't use the correct skin in the actual race, penalise them, but ffs, leave people alone when they are only trying to play the game they love, stop sucking the fun out of LFS completely. Is there really any need to be so harsh on the qualifying run? Sorry, I forgot, you have to please your media partners and sponsors? Gimme a break....."
+1 Paul (for a change)
My next comment is not directed to DWB at all, but to the way that alot of LFS events seem to be going...
"I really think that putting too much emphasis on silly rules and penalising drivers for the actual race for not meeting some stupid rule that has been invented by an over officiated, power hungry rule maker is completely against the ethos of LFS. This sim is different to other sims in the fact it is so accessible, so please don't start ruining it with some bs made up rules to please the admins ego.
Yes, if someone is cheating, penalise them.. If someone doesn't use the correct skin in the actual race, penalise them, but ffs, leave people alone when they are only trying to play the game they love, stop sucking the fun out of LFS completely. Is there really any need to be so harsh on the qualifying run? Sorry, I forgot, you have to please your media partners and sponsors? Gimme a break....."
Allow me to point out that the entire point of this new qualifying skin rule is to simplify the process (one qual skin for the entire season). Once it's done, it's done, and there's nothing to worry about till next year (if even then). We also simplified the race skin deadline so that it's the same time as the race roster deadline.
But its not needed, especially a penalty for it. Doesn't really matter about a qually skin. We always have one either for the round coming or the previous one. Only thing different is the logo's. Not worthy of loosing your fastest lap.
Disclaimer : Just me talking, nothing to do with me being involved with MoE.. which I'm not really.. but some may think.. but I'm not.. really :P (sorry for the rip-off, Jason 
)
I do not see the big deal about this - my first reaction was skeptical, but at that time I hadn't read about the new stuff too closely (ironically because I was rushing to finish the skin for the quali session). I can't see why it would be a bother to do a single skin for the entire season, to be used as qualification skins, and in return have more time to prep the race skin. As a skinner I know that's something I'd appreciate.
As for the penalties - I disagree. You don't (hopefully) expect the joys of life to come to you. You have to work for it. Drivers to it by racing and practicing again and again - MoE has to do it by improving how the league is executed and presented. I see this as a healthy move by MoE admins - intentional or not.
I'd say MoE would be more likely to score a partner/sponsorship deal if the admins have the necessary steps in mind beforehand - not after. Talk is always cheap. Much harder to do what it takes - and yes, it does need to be done in a fashion that isn't tedious or irrelevant to the teams, but in this case I see no such issues.
)I do not see the big deal about this - my first reaction was skeptical, but at that time I hadn't read about the new stuff too closely (ironically because I was rushing to finish the skin for the quali session). I can't see why it would be a bother to do a single skin for the entire season, to be used as qualification skins, and in return have more time to prep the race skin. As a skinner I know that's something I'd appreciate.
As for the penalties - I disagree. You don't (hopefully) expect the joys of life to come to you. You have to work for it. Drivers to it by racing and practicing again and again - MoE has to do it by improving how the league is executed and presented. I see this as a healthy move by MoE admins - intentional or not.
I'd say MoE would be more likely to score a partner/sponsorship deal if the admins have the necessary steps in mind beforehand - not after. Talk is always cheap. Much harder to do what it takes - and yes, it does need to be done in a fashion that isn't tedious or irrelevant to the teams, but in this case I see no such issues.
The bad thing is though, before each race you can get a DT for about 20 minor things like numberplates, binds, skins, chat etc etc. It just turns LFS into stress, we already have rules on track loads stricter than real life, then we have to occupy our time doing all these little farty things which amount to pretty much nothing.
Like said, your starting to take the mick a little, last thing we want is MoE turning overly geeky just like NDR and GTAL, your over complicating it, this itself might not be a big deal, but the straw that broke the camels back and all.
Like said, your starting to take the mick a little, last thing we want is MoE turning overly geeky just like NDR and GTAL, your over complicating it, this itself might not be a big deal, but the straw that broke the camels back and all.
Well, looks like I have my average 25 hours of a week leading up to an MoE race now no longer about MoE, as it usually is.
Yes, I do put in more than 25 hours of work into getting everything ready for a broadcast of MoE, from my work on the qual recaps and other packages to my own research for commentary.
Just as you all race for fun, I do this media stuff for my enjoyment, since I can't race to save my life. I run and admin events for fun, I enjoy seeing clean racing. I do not make and enforce rules to inflate my ego. I do not post and do the MoE videos to show my ability. I do it to present MoE better to the LFS community. I do it to offer the LFS community something that I can do. It is my contribution to the LFS Community.
But, if this is how some things that were done to attempt to help that image of MoE in the LFS community will be treated, then I just won't do them. To be purely honest, I don't like having teams/drivers get penalized for the bureaucratic things...but rules are rules, and should be followed.
But anyway, enjoy your racing Saturday. I won't be there.
Jonathan.
Yes, I do put in more than 25 hours of work into getting everything ready for a broadcast of MoE, from my work on the qual recaps and other packages to my own research for commentary.
Just as you all race for fun, I do this media stuff for my enjoyment, since I can't race to save my life. I run and admin events for fun, I enjoy seeing clean racing. I do not make and enforce rules to inflate my ego. I do not post and do the MoE videos to show my ability. I do it to present MoE better to the LFS community. I do it to offer the LFS community something that I can do. It is my contribution to the LFS Community.
But, if this is how some things that were done to attempt to help that image of MoE in the LFS community will be treated, then I just won't do them. To be purely honest, I don't like having teams/drivers get penalized for the bureaucratic things...but rules are rules, and should be followed.
But anyway, enjoy your racing Saturday. I won't be there.
Jonathan.
Jonathan, the last thing we want is for you to pull out of MOE, or any of the events you run or help with. I am simply stating my opinion on the fact that a team can get wrongly (IMO) penalised for having the incorrect skin/numberplate/logo for a qualifying session, which then that has a huge impact on the thing that matters, the race.
I first of all urge you to reconsider, and I also ask that all admins of leagues consider the situation the drivers and teams are in. It takes an awful lot of work to prepare for races like this, and the drivers involved have to concentrate and focus on the races, and to find out after you have set a time, that you have lost that time because you had the wrong numberplate etc is just wrong....
All I am saying is try to see this whole thing from a drivers perspective, as that is simply the most important thing....
I first of all urge you to reconsider, and I also ask that all admins of leagues consider the situation the drivers and teams are in. It takes an awful lot of work to prepare for races like this, and the drivers involved have to concentrate and focus on the races, and to find out after you have set a time, that you have lost that time because you had the wrong numberplate etc is just wrong....
All I am saying is try to see this whole thing from a drivers perspective, as that is simply the most important thing....
Agree with what Jason said deko. Think of what i said as constructive critisism, that wasn't constructive. I was just saying i don't agree with the way you are handling some of your leagues, GTAL in perticular and that imo you need to calm down a bit with the rules etc.
We all appreciate what you do for the community and i for one really enjoy the stuff you do for it, as a broadcaster i can't fault you, honestly.
Id also like to mention, i got my fastest lap removed from KY3 qually because of incorrect number plate and i hadn't even drove drove into S1 or done a lap before realisiing and still i got a penalty. Rules are rules and it applys for everyone i know, but what im talking about above can spoil a race, luckily we quallied pretty much last with or without my lap but it could have been different and ruined the race.
We all appreciate what you do for the community and i for one really enjoy the stuff you do for it, as a broadcaster i can't fault you, honestly.
Id also like to mention, i got my fastest lap removed from KY3 qually because of incorrect number plate and i hadn't even drove drove into S1 or done a lap before realisiing and still i got a penalty. Rules are rules and it applys for everyone i know, but what im talking about above can spoil a race, luckily we quallied pretty much last with or without my lap but it could have been different and ruined the race.
Pearcy, it's easy as pie. You create a new driver profile for MoE. Set your proper name, set your license plate, delete your binds, have your skin selected ahead of time. Easy peasy. No penalties, no stress. It just takes 5 minutes of preparation, and if you can't be arsed to do that, it's not my problem.
+11111 DWB UR SO HAWT!!
/leave britney alone
Always nice to see you take running the series seriously.
It doesnt bother you that at least 5 of the 30 cars on the grid had something wrong with their skin, and you knew of some of them, and surely all the admins arent blind?
It doesnt bother you that despite someone bringing cutting to your attention, you investigating the matter, and after observing the cutting being done for around 16 of the 18 laps watched... you do nothing?
It doesnt bother you that despite the OP saying all protests need to be done within a timelimit and provide replays, but only 1 from around 10 did, including one you yourself submitted and punished WITHOUT complying to your own set of rules?
These are rules you implement and claim to enforce, now your trying to enforce a rule which penalises people who dont submit a skin for a qualifying session, but dont give a hoot when 15% of the grid race with an incorrect skin which seemingly doesnt bother you at all. Clearly you dont care about enforcing this on an existing race skin rule which is broadcast unedited, unlike a qual session which takes 2hrs of running and edits it to around 2-3min.
I dont want to see peoples races spoiled by silly needless rules which exist for no real beneficial reason. As Pearcy says, we create an MoE skin for every single round, just because you guys insist that every race has a new logo on it, now its a blank version for qualifying because running a regular team skin or the previous rounds skin is unacceptable, and not that long ago you wanted to issue DT's to people because you guys took so long sorting out new logos we only had ~48hrs from release to race to spot the cryptic warning of this new rule and implement it... its madness.
Im sure you guys dont sit around thinking of stupid rules to come up with that can ruin races, but thats what your doing nonetheless. Theres tons of tripwires dotted around in the rules desperate to trip you up, ruin your races, and make you feel like a sack of shit because even with all the good intentions in the world you accidently forget something which does nobody any harm, it gets punished and makes people feel like they've let the team down. For what? DaveW not having a space after his first initial? Surely thats a lifetime ban!! Not having the correct plate? Hang him!! Turning up to a MoE event wearing a skin with MoE visor, number plate, class ident, series logos, round logos, and being penalised because we're not allowed a round logo on there... When and where will it stop?
Deko... havent a clue whats up with you, this isnt anything against the work you do for MoE, its simply the requirements that your good service is now resulting in the people who compete getting a penalty if they do something which might appear on something you create.
The requirement of a blank MoE skin exists for the 2min slot it occupies midway through the event, on a fairly so-so picture quality live stream where frankly the attrocities of round logos wont be visable... but that wont stop someone from being penalised as a result of it.
I thought the idea of what you did was to cover the MoE event, and broadcast it for the people who want to see fair honest racing, and yet this new qual skin rule is going to penalise people for turning up to a non-broadcast event, seemingly because if you display some of the qual footage during the race people might see a round logo or driver line-up on the skins!? But breaking similar rules during the same broadcast the admins dont care to enforce those rules. Its nonsense, both the officiating and rule making.
I just dont understand this desire to find new ways to upset people and ruin their hard work, this isnt a professional series, its a hobby for all of us, whether were racing, organising, broadcasting or spectating, and we do it in our own time while juggling a dozen other things. If the organisers do something wrong, it happens. If something happens with the broadcast, not too worry. If someone turns up without a space in their display name... cuff em and take them to the station!
I can respect the desire for people to attend sessions with the series logos on their cars, not interfere with other racers unfairly, and rules along those lines, but when its rules which cant possibly have a positive influence on the racing experience, and only a negative one... and they keep flooding in, something needs to be looked at and the question needs to be asked, for what reason does this rule exist for when it only acts to harm the people involved?
// to those who feel like they are spoken to directly
Because you fail to read the skins you complain. 95% of all Teams / drivers never have a problem, but the rest always comes around and complains.
It's no rocket science to have a skin without a specific event logo or name roster. Make it once, use it the whole season. Ever heard of making layers when skinning?
But I know it's pointless to discuss anything with some people.
Every shit real life league has specific event logos / number plates. We aim this league to be special among all other leagues and therefor we try to apply higher standards (which with a proper preparation are easy to match), so don't start how unfair we are.
You get a penalty because you are unable to read the rules, not our fault.
Because you fail to read the skins you complain. 95% of all Teams / drivers never have a problem, but the rest always comes around and complains.
It's no rocket science to have a skin without a specific event logo or name roster. Make it once, use it the whole season. Ever heard of making layers when skinning?
But I know it's pointless to discuss anything with some people.
Every shit real life league has specific event logos / number plates. We aim this league to be special among all other leagues and therefor we try to apply higher standards (which with a proper preparation are easy to match), so don't start how unfair we are.
You get a penalty because you are unable to read the rules, not our fault.
You know, Paul, I've never understood that about you either.
Its an interesting take on the situation, what about people who are expected to enforce the rules, who dont
Either enforce all the rules, especially when you know they not being followed, or dont. Taking this stance is rather hypocritical. How are we to know this rule and its penalty is real? Maybe this is one of them your going to ignore??
If one of you guys could kindly issue a set of rules which should be actually followed, then it'd save people a lot of time, and the ones your not going to follow and turn a blind eye to, then we can all ignore it too.
An example of how easy it is...
Have you read the OP?
If I wanted to ruin peoples races, i'd have highlighted these issues while you were blatently ignoring them. But considering you broke the rules yourself, its hardly suprising you didnt bring any of this up, is it. Maybe we should expect more from someone running the series?
Paul, as usual there's a grain of truth and the hint of a good idea in your posts in this thread, but also as usual it's nearly completely obscured by your horrible presentation that essentially amounts to a series of extended, incoherent essays about why we're horrible admins and horrible people. Try being more constructive and less of a bitch next time.
Also look out for the upcoming rules changes in advance of round 2.
Also look out for the upcoming rules changes in advance of round 2.
Have you guys read this?
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=93792&d=1255117090
or this:
along with the dozen protests you guys accepted, despite the OP's instructions being ignored, after a couple of years of them being there.
If your arguement is going to be 'read the rules', then mine is going to be 'enforce the rules', because the people who are supposed to be running the series and ignoring them despite being told about them during events. So who's at fault here, the people who accidently fall foul of rules, or the people who make the rules and then ignore them when it suit them while threatening to use the same rules elsewhere??
Eitherway, this isnt supposed to be a 'your all useless' thread, its about addressing rules which exist which stand to ruin the experience for people. DWB would rather be arrogant and ignore the matter, clearly he doesnt care that rules are being ignored while taking a firm stance that they should be followed to the letter, and now your doing the same thing. I've had to say this on numerous occasions, stop taking an 'Us vs Them' attitude with everything that gets brought up. There are serious issues of neglect within the running of the league, and it seems you guys dont care about that. If thats the case, then so be it, but its pathetic that your all okay with 3 different rules being broke, all brought to your attention or done right under your nose, and yet your still taking this hard line stance on such a trivial meaningless rule.
The rules need a tidy up, ones which are needed and will be inforced, and ones which arent needed and are being dropped, so dont need to be inforced. Right now, you have a ton of rules, and your knowingly not enforcing them, and this needs clarifying for the sake of fairness.
Seriously, though. Consider how this series was run prior to the current administration taking over and consider how it's run now. I think you'll find it's a vast organizational improvement. Everyone I've spoken to seems to think so, anyway.
There's always room for improvement, and we're always open to suggestions. However, those suggestions shouldn't come in the form of abuse, which they usually do from you, Paul. The admins of this series do their work pro bono (which I know you're familiar with, having run several series of your own). We get no compensation and in fact lose large amounts of our free time trying to provide a good and enjoyable series for you. We don't deserve to be abused for it.
So please, find a new way to express yourself or don't bother. Thanks.
edit: The replay rule is one that will be changed for the following rounds, as we've developed the superpower of using temp.mpr replays to check incidents. It hasn't been enforced so far this season because it wasn't needed, though you're right, we should have stuck to the letter of the rule on that one if we're doing it with others.
There's always room for improvement, and we're always open to suggestions. However, those suggestions shouldn't come in the form of abuse, which they usually do from you, Paul. The admins of this series do their work pro bono (which I know you're familiar with, having run several series of your own). We get no compensation and in fact lose large amounts of our free time trying to provide a good and enjoyable series for you. We don't deserve to be abused for it.
So please, find a new way to express yourself or don't bother. Thanks.
edit: The replay rule is one that will be changed for the following rounds, as we've developed the superpower of using temp.mpr replays to check incidents. It hasn't been enforced so far this season because it wasn't needed, though you're right, we should have stuck to the letter of the rule on that one if we're doing it with others.
S09-10: Series Discussion
(265 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG