And on which point is this a disadvantage to the teams when we try to sort most off the protest as soon as possible during the race instead of waiting a few hours in some cases till there is a replay?
And on which point is this a disadvantage to the teams when we try to sort most off the protest as soon as possible during the race instead of waiting a few hours in some cases till there is a replay?
I speak my mind, and after having to speaking it 3 times, only ONCE have you bothered to respond properly, rather than with a sarcastic attitude which you intentionally take despite knowing it'll only make me come back and reply.
If perhaps you didnt play silly beggers, and instead respond properly, even if it is hypocritically to come back calling me a bitch, then perhaps it'd save me posting more 'incoherent essays'.
Your not a complete moron, you read the first post, no matter how 'incoherent' you want to pretend it is, you knew what i was saying, and knew what the issues were, so dont pretend matters are any different. If you want to throw petrol on the fire, knowing what your doing, dont start crying about it like you didnt know it'd happen.
While you guys continue to make rules which spoil a series which you inherited, and make a mockery of how you officiate it, im going to be knocking about, unimpressed. You dont hesistate to punish people for making the most pedantic of mistakes you find unacceptable, but when someone brings up your own mistakes its ignored, as your initial posts proved, and 3J's only looked to distract from.
Its about time you guys took the same stance to officiating as you do for the drivers, it all impacts on the race, whether its intentional or completely accidental, their mistakes are no different to yours, the difference being you expect them to be accountable for them.
A serious question Paul.
Since I have been in MoE (driving or admin) there have always been complaints or very long discussion about nearly everything from your side. If you really think that all we do is just so you don't can even remotely enjoy this, why do you keep comming back?
If you don't like it, don't do it we don't force you to do anything you don't want.
Since I have been in MoE (driving or admin) there have always been complaints or very long discussion about nearly everything from your side. If you really think that all we do is just so you don't can even remotely enjoy this, why do you keep comming back?
If you don't like it, don't do it we don't force you to do anything you don't want.
Your conveniently ignoring your own point. The OP dictated that protests MUST include a replay.
You and I both know we dont need this since we can now have (and do have) a ton of people in the server who can pop out, check the incident in question and act upon it, before returning to the server.
Logic says the replay isnt needed, and yet despite the fact that YOU admit that this method makes complete sense, its YOU claiming that people must provide this.
Its all about COMMON SENSE and whats best for everyone. There are rules like this one which exist in the MoE series, last season the above had to be obayed to be accepted. Thankfully common sense kicks in and they can be dealt with without this being needed. Thats 1 down, and many more to go.
When your own OP's are ignored, it seems stupid to quote the OP in order to make some sort of statement of whats expected, when even the admin's dont follow other OP's warning when making their own protests.
Its silly things like this, and when this whole discussion is going on inside a thread which is warning people they have to have a Qual skin, which has its own set of instructions and a usually legal MoE skin is unacceptable, it becomes rather hypocritical to push the hard line stance when during Round 1 there were skins used which werent to the series' requirements, we (nfinity) came forward with our mistake, we didnt hide it and hope it went unnoticed, we made it known to the relevent people. While i certainly dont want our team getting penalised, particularly when it was me doing the skins (though wasnt specificly my fault), it seems wrong to take such a stance after ignoring it for the first round. Its this inconsistancy, coupled with rather silly rules which arent for the sake of the people racing, but will punish only the people racing.
I know you dont want to spoil peoples races, but it doesnt seem to be apparent that thats what a lot of these rules stand to do, and yet they exist and dont really have much need to.
If you guys didnt take critisism as an 'Us vs Them' all the time, maybe you wouldnt feel its abusive.
But hey, i call the rules stupid and what... pathetic, idiotic... have i said anything worse than explain just what some of these rules are? Have i gone out of my way to insult someone?
Apparently thats abusive, but calling someone a bitch is acceptable, and im told to go about a new line of communication?
3J, im guessing you've NEVER said anything negative about F1 or Microsoft, right?
I guess whats okay for you guys, is unacceptable for others.
But hey, i call the rules stupid and what... pathetic, idiotic... have i said anything worse than explain just what some of these rules are? Have i gone out of my way to insult someone?
Apparently thats abusive, but calling someone a bitch is acceptable, and im told to go about a new line of communication?
3J, im guessing you've NEVER said anything negative about F1 or Microsoft, right?
I guess whats okay for you guys, is unacceptable for others.
The "us vs. them" starts with you, Paul, not us. Always.
Well AMEN to that.
Its amazing though, you've got stupid skinning rules, and your stupidly trying to enforce more stupid skinning rules.
They're stupid, but you threaten to penalise people for failing to follow them.
You realize I was quoting you to show how you went on the offensive against "us" first, right?
/me thinks you guys take this way too seriously.
And I'm not just talking about the "complainers" or admins, but both.
And I'm not just talking about the "complainers" or admins, but both.
Best everyone has a good argument now to get it out of their system
Very nice mates. City-Liga.de ftw!!!
True, but it was getting repetitive.
fair enough, no i hadnt. did seem a little too good to be true.
The things you chose to highlight, all have justification, and you know it. If theres something in there which is incorrect, by all means point it out. But we both know how each other goes about things. I go on and on, you manipulate the situation and ignore the issue at hand.
Typically it'd be me that starts throwing personal insults, i've refrained from that... seems you've added that to your arsenal, while sitting in your ivory tower.
I didnt call you guys morons or idiots for making up the rules, i expressed my feelings that the rules themselves are stupid, and now more and more rules are being added not for the sake of improved racing, but for this media experience. You know people want to compete in MoE and will jump through hoops, and a lot of these rules are you guys saying JUMP or we'll ruin your races before they've even started.
The question of whether these things are REALLY needed are never asked, it isnt relevent, you just decide you want them and thats the end of it. If it wasnt for the fact that you penalise people for making a mistake which does no harm, it wouldnt be an issue, but unfortunately you guys feel the need to threaten people will penalties for the most trivial of reasons, and this qualifying skin is the cherry on top, now an MoE skin is unacceptable if it has your own round's logos on, or the drivers names, which are forced by penalty if they're missing in a race. As i said in my original post, MoE used to be about the racing, but more and more of the rules are focussed on trivial aspects, but stand to spoil good honest racing which people have worked hard on. I personally find that a shame, it seems you guys believe its no big deal as long as it looks pretty on the web stream.
I dont want to see peoples races ruined because they didnt comply to a rule that exists to suit the 'media experience' of MoE. I find it offensive that you've previously threaten people with exclusion from R1Q for failure to comply to skin rules, and then ignored the same thing in the races, and i find it offensive that attitude remains in place after knowingly allowing R1 cars to fail rules unpunished. Just like i offered to modify anyones skins with the short & barely announced notice of penalties when the new MoE logo was released, on an equally harmless but punishable offense, im speaking up because i dont believe its right. I seem to recall having quite firm resistance from you guys about that MoE logo matter, and having ONE person agree with me on the fact that it was unnecessarily harsh, maybe 3J will remember that. While rules are implemented to punish people for failing to jump through hoops (intentionally or accidently) for minor media related matters, i'll be here asking for some common sense before peoples races are ruined. If it comes across as being offensive, its rarely my intention, its just me speaking my mind because some rules wind me up to no end because they are selfish and serve no benefit to the real reason we're here, to race. If you have a rule which makes the racing better, im right behind it, these arent, yet they potentially damage good clean honest racing, and thats in no-ones best interest.
Calling me a bitch though sure as hell isnt going to help matters is it, though i get the impression that was probably the intention.
(DeadWolfBones)
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by DeadWolfBones
My final word on the matter:
It's always our intent to provide enough time for teams to acclimate to a new rule, whether it be skin-related or whatever. Sometimes this doesn't happen properly, and we're sorry for that. I understand your frustration re: penalties that affect the racing being applied due to rules that have nothing to do with the on-track action. Nevertheless, these rules being followed is important to us, whether or not it's important to you.
Deko puts a lot of work into his quali recaps and grid rundowns, and to pull those off successfully he needs skins in a timely and uniform fashion. These are posted in high-res in the LFS movies section as well as being broadcast in lower res on the stream. He also puts together race programs, etc, in his own time and these factors are also important there. Since he does this work for us out of his own goodwill, we've instituted rules to make it easier on him. His work results in increased exposure for the series, the teams who participate in it, and our current/possible future sponsors.
Other things like the addition of number plates with team tags, etc, are done to make it easier on the admins, marshals, and commentators as they try to spot the right car in critical situations. This helps everyone, as it means protests are processed more quickly, fewer people are misidentified on the stream, etc.
All rules that we add to the series are added with the intention of making the series better for drivers, teams, commentators, viewers, and sponsors alike. We weigh these decisions carefully before we make them. We attempt to make them easy for teams and drivers to follow. We offer helpful suggestions as to how to avoid these penalties (cf. my post above to Pearcy and the similar suggestion in the rules). Rules like these have been requested by our partners in the broadcast team.
In the end, we do all of these things for you, the drivers/managers/teams. We welcome suggestions and criticisms if they're presented in a rational, constructive, and respectful manner. We don't welcome attacks, personal or otherwise.
It's always our intent to provide enough time for teams to acclimate to a new rule, whether it be skin-related or whatever. Sometimes this doesn't happen properly, and we're sorry for that. I understand your frustration re: penalties that affect the racing being applied due to rules that have nothing to do with the on-track action. Nevertheless, these rules being followed is important to us, whether or not it's important to you.
Deko puts a lot of work into his quali recaps and grid rundowns, and to pull those off successfully he needs skins in a timely and uniform fashion. These are posted in high-res in the LFS movies section as well as being broadcast in lower res on the stream. He also puts together race programs, etc, in his own time and these factors are also important there. Since he does this work for us out of his own goodwill, we've instituted rules to make it easier on him. His work results in increased exposure for the series, the teams who participate in it, and our current/possible future sponsors.
Other things like the addition of number plates with team tags, etc, are done to make it easier on the admins, marshals, and commentators as they try to spot the right car in critical situations. This helps everyone, as it means protests are processed more quickly, fewer people are misidentified on the stream, etc.
All rules that we add to the series are added with the intention of making the series better for drivers, teams, commentators, viewers, and sponsors alike. We weigh these decisions carefully before we make them. We attempt to make them easy for teams and drivers to follow. We offer helpful suggestions as to how to avoid these penalties (cf. my post above to Pearcy and the similar suggestion in the rules). Rules like these have been requested by our partners in the broadcast team.
In the end, we do all of these things for you, the drivers/managers/teams. We welcome suggestions and criticisms if they're presented in a rational, constructive, and respectful manner. We don't welcome attacks, personal or otherwise.
Asked to whom? You? I'm sure you don't try to imply here that we need to ask permission. If meant in a way that it was not internally discussed, keep reading.
From the pages of so-so argumentation I understand that you say we need to focus more on racing, and less on media.
From the way the way we see it racing is as much as we can get it from LFS as a game experience point of view (and hopefully with the new patch releases we can continue to development on that path, however we are as far as we can go with the current patch), we are fortunate that we have the fast majority top-notch of the LFS's driverbase participating in the several teams. The rules will be fine tuned a bit more, however in essence they're as clear as they need to be.
Now we try to maintain this level and ensure the media part is at the same level. The communicating/media team is very dedicated and have a lot of good ideas. The reasoning behind the skin requests has been explained (deko's qualification recaps). Yes, we will penalize people to ensure proper follow up on this request to ensure we have the visioned appearance.
Now you may disagree but an awful lot of people actually do enjoy and appreciate the quality of media from MoE.
Finally, I understand and appreciate that you voice your concerns. However this does not give you the right to continues repeat the same arguments (which unfortunately tent to turn into rants - from both parties for that matter) when you feel we don't share your opinion. If you don't share the logic behind a request, even after we explained it a few times, then its time to shut up and accept it. If you don't accept it, feel free to either stop commentating, and/or withdraw your team if it's a necessity.
(rockclan)
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by amp88 : Useless.
S09-10: Series Discussion
(265 posts, started )
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