especially when lisenced products get involved...

That's great! Thanks for the updates Scawen.

truely wonderful

check your email, its pretty important :hide: i hate crackers :gnasher:

also, is there an option to change, when cars get far enough away they just dissapear, i find this un-realistic and kinda getting on my nerves if not, well, i un-offocially suggest it

Quote from Glenn67 :

PS - AI improvements would be great also, there is a one thing that bugs me with the AI at the moment (other than the obvious bugs) it is that when you position your car on their inside on the exit of a corner (sometimes even on the entry and often mid corner also) they pretty much stop in their tracks rather than race you.
If the AI detect they are being squeezed and there is not enough racing room then perhaps just a momentary lift off of the throttle is sufficient. At the moment it is too easy to overtake the AI in this circumstance as they drop too far behind and are then not in a position to race you any further.

Also AI being more human like would make it much more interesting i.e. their driving ability fluctuates during a race depending on their own ability rating, the length of a race, being under pressure, trying to catch an opponent, etc.

I was just going to post a similar thing. Its great that Scawen acknowledges those of us that do use the AI however i don't think their speed is that big a problem. Perhaps its just because im slow and pro AI is faster than me

However i think AI behaviour is more important. Currently they just drive around in a big train of cars. Having AI that races is, to me, better than AI that can pump out good laps.

I do realise this is on the to do list i just find it a little surprising that the speed is being looked at first (although makes sense if the new physics "broke" the old AI).

Anywho thanks for the report!

If the users are allowed to add content I hope this content will be moderated by Scawen: I mean I want to download good content as the LFS team provide us at the moment

I think we will not get the VWS in 2009

It's a fact.

Quote from chaa :

i think you forgot curbbugfix ^^ (kyoto i.e.)

It's not bug, it's just poor curb design.

Quote from logitekg25 :

also, is there an option to change, when cars get far enough away they just dissapear, i find this un-realistic and kinda getting on my nerves if not, well, i un-offocially suggest it

Options > Misc > Multiplayer speedup option > No.

Quote from Cigarones :

yeah im lookin forward to that but wat about the drifters what if the changes affect the way the users drift im not S2 licsend and i like drifting evry server i go into i drift if i cant use xrg i dont go into the server so plz dont let the "plans" affect the drifters of lfs

Okay.

Quote from Scawen :

Limited setup system

We mentioned before that the VW Scirocco would be our first car with a limited setup. But as time went by, that plan changed a little. We realised that limited setups would be a popular option for online hosts. It is a feature that has often been requested. It would allow people to race in road cars that feel like road cars (not stiffened and lowered) and still be competitive. So we decided the limited setups should be an option that applies to many of the LFS cars. For example, in limited setup mode, the standard road cars would only allow tyre pressure and toe adjustments. The LX6 / RAC / FZ5 class (LRF) would also allow compression and rebound damping to be adjusted along with ride height and adjustable anti roll bars (in some cases). The idea is to allow the same adjustments you could make on the real car without changing any parts.

Suspension updates

In order to implement the limited setup system, we needed some good standard setups, the kind that these cars would have in real life. In comparison with most LFS setups currently in use, the new default road car setups are a lot softer. Our testers noticed that with the new setups some cars can be a bit tricky at times, for example when adjusting the accelerator while cornering or when braking into corners. In real life, the suspension geometry is designed to produce an anti-dive effect under braking and anti-squat under acceleration. This has until now been absent from the LFS suspension systems, but now looks like an important development to support the realistic setups.

The problem I have with this is that 99% of road cars are not capable of being raced. The brakes on a ford focus would be unusable after 1 lap of race-speed driving.

In real life, virually no cars that are raced on tracks are unmodified because they are designed for taking the kids to school, not pounding round a circuit for lap after lap, taking racing lines and riding kerbs.

Taking it to an obsurdly logical conclusion, the road cars should only be allowed to do 1-2 laps races or cruises because that is what is 'realistic'.

An alternative is that the roadcars become 'trackday' or beginner race cars with equipment and setups that reflect an entry level track car.

IMO, a third 'middle ground' setup option would be good.

This would give:
- Stock: Showroom spec, with only tyre pressures etc adjustable (as Scawen described as the limited option)
- Sane/Race: Some components can be changed (suspension, brakes, gear ratios, diffs etc) but not infinitely variable and with sensible limits. This should make adjustments similar to most racing series possible.
- Extreme: As it is now, with unrealistic limits and fine adjustments.

Personally, I'd be happy with just the first two (stock + sane), but I know a lot of people like taking things to the limits to see what can be done.

99% of cars are capable of being trackdayed (daied? day'd?) with no modifications at all that would affect the simulator - simply using decent brake fluid (e.g. AP600), some slightly better road legal pads (e.g. Mintex 1144) and, err, that's about it.

If they were being raced - this is the level LFS would be aiming at - in a low cost race series, then the addition of a roll cage, mild updates to ride height and spring stiffness (and, maybe, damping), and an extinguisher system are almost all that would be needed.

However, whilst LFS is planning on supporting 'realistic' setup changes/limitations, the other goal with respect to the road cars, is to give them a road car look and feel. So the 'requirements' of roll cages, extinguishers in reality are ignored, so that the cars are in road spec. One of the nice things about computer games is that alternative realities can be created - this is one where unmodified cars are allowed to race (other than the brake upgrades).

In short - we'll get your 'entry level track car' in terms of eligability and reliability, but 'standard road car' in terms of looks and feel.

I agree but there is a big difference between track days and racing.

A racing driver will destroy a road cars brakes in 1 lap, I've been in a ford focus with a stig round spa and I can assure you by the smoke and smell that they made, they were dead! New pads and fluid aren't enough to prevent this for long.

If you make that concession towards modifiying the brakes, then isn't it wrong to ignore that the geo will be knocked out and suspension failure can occur very quickly in unmodified cars if they hit the kerbs hard at racing speeds, just like people do in lfs?

If the devs aim is to create an alternative reality then fine but otherwise I think there's a contradiction somewhere.

At some point we will get brake fade also I bet, then we'll see how this is going to affect the road cars

Good news! :clapclap: Good to hear that

Will be looking forward to the VW Scirocco

Quote from ORION :

After that (on the way to S3), I would add support for custom content, and add weather support. For this, I would license a DX9+10 engine that ships with a decent content editor package, allowing everyone to try those editors, and taking a lot boring graphics programming tasks off Scawen's shoulders. New content could be made available to the users using micro payment (like, one car for 1€, a tarck for 5€ etc.), and content creators should earn LFS credits or real money with their work, too.
So lets say Don makes a nice set of new sky textures, and I would buy them for 1€, then the devs would get a part form that, maybe 20cent, for providing the download and server system, alongside with the content managemant systems, which should be user driven as well.
This means, users vote for good content, and each month, the best custom content from the polls is reviewed by the devs, and allowed to be put into the game. Basically the same method as used with the t-shirt designs, or the LX skin cometition. It is required that, without permission from the devs, no content may be spreaded, in order to avoid loads of crap mods (see rFactor), people stealing work from others.

So basically, S3 would add a new gfx engine + weather system, and allow users to add new content.

Just brainstorming a bit

Normally you've got good ideas, but this... no, please don't. I might as well just spend my little money all on iRacing.

Quote from southamptonfc :

New pads and fluid aren't enough to prevent this for long.

Sorry but this just isn't true, many entry level race series only allow the friction material and fluid to be changed. Standard brakes work fine if they are driven properly, your Focus driver was just being too hard on them. People raced drum braked vintage cars without issue, obviously if you put this wannabee Stig in one he'd kill himself but it's just like cooking tyres, driver error.

For the record everyday road pads and fluid on a standard 1.6 Focus are good for about 30 minutes trackday driving before the pads start to fade.

You're amazing :bowdown:
I really want that AI update. This summer I was trying to record a video of LFS gameplay against the AI and finally decided to record just myself hotlapping because the behaviour of the AI made me to feel embarrased
Keep it up

Quote from ajp71 :

Sorry but this just isn't true, many entry level race series only allow the friction material and fluid to be changed. Standard brakes work fine if they are driven properly

I agree totally. I race in the Toyota MR2 Championship and we are only allowed to upgrade pads and fluid. I've done several 2 hour races without any brake issues what-so-ever! One set of standard Toyota discs and Carbo-tech pads has lasted me 2 seasons.

Brake fade and warping is normally down to driver trail braking. If you brake properly on track most standard brake setups are fine, you really don't need "million" pot calipers.

it sounds like LFS will be a LOT more realistic than it currently is.

Quote from ajp71 :

Sorry but this just isn't true, many entry level race series only allow the friction material and fluid to be changed. Standard brakes work fine if they are driven properly

Quote from Alric :

I agree totally. I race in the Toyota MR2 Championship and we are only allowed to upgrade pads and fluid. I've done several 2 hour races without any brake issues what-so-ever! One set of standard Toyota discs and Carbo-tech pads has lasted me 2 seasons.

Brake fade and warping is normally down to driver trail braking. If you brake properly on track most standard brake setups are fine, you really don't need "million" pot calipers.

fair enough, this guy is a pro and wasn't practicing car sympathy

Smoke and smell dosn't tell they are dead. That only tells they are in higher stress. The only parts of the brake that change her condition due to higher temperature are the pads and the brake fluid, what yields to higher brake distance. Change them before will avoid the "dead".

thanks for the god news!

Quote from GianniC :

Normally you've got good ideas, but this... no, please don't. I might as well just spend my little money all on iRacing.

I guess you understood it wrong. The main license will be cheaper, and if you buy all cars & tracks, the final plrice should be she same as if it was included in a 'stage'. So effectively its ACTUALLY cheaper, because you do not have to buy everything. For example people who drive only RWD cars will never in hell want to buy the UF1
And additionally this adds support for custom content, which can be purchased only by people who want to use it.

Seems like we can forget about Xmas :/
I hope it won't take too long... We already waited 1 year.
But well I know you can't do anything Scawen so only thing I can do is wish you good luck!