Airio.tcd.txt:
Track=
Car=FXO
IntakeRestriction=3
Airio.tcd.txt:
Hello there. Please do tell me if this is the wrong section - I have heard that AIRIO is the program causing the problem I will describe below. If not, I'll move my post to the correct place.
A friend of mine recently reported that most hosts he joined, he got booted out from immediately after connection. It turns out that he had a new LFS install, and just wanted to see that multiplayer was working ok. But he had not entered a player name, so was called "unnamed".
One example where this is happening is : [AMG] GTR MotorSport (and there are several others)
As soon as you have loaded track, downloaded all the skins, and entered the host with "unnamed" as your name, you just get these messages :
You cannot have current name, use Shift + O > Driver > New.
Lost connection to host
Now the problem here is that new LFS players who want to take a look online, having heard that LFS is good for online racing, but didn't know that it was so important to enter a player name, and they just click on a host to take a look, will get kicked rudely from many hosts they join.
So that is a bad first impression for LFS and I hope the developer of whichever InSim program that is, will update the function. InSim provides on screen buttons so you could politely report to a player what the problem is, and give them a chance to change it, not just pop one obscure message into the chat log before you kick them right out.
How about allowing them to spectate, put a message on their screen, saying that they need to change their player name? If they try to join a race you could force them back to spectate. Actually booting them from the host is too severe for the crime of not having entered a player name.
A friend of mine recently reported that most hosts he joined, he got booted out from immediately after connection. It turns out that he had a new LFS install, and just wanted to see that multiplayer was working ok. But he had not entered a player name, so was called "unnamed".
One example where this is happening is : [AMG] GTR MotorSport (and there are several others)
As soon as you have loaded track, downloaded all the skins, and entered the host with "unnamed" as your name, you just get these messages :
You cannot have current name, use Shift + O > Driver > New.
Lost connection to host
Now the problem here is that new LFS players who want to take a look online, having heard that LFS is good for online racing, but didn't know that it was so important to enter a player name, and they just click on a host to take a look, will get kicked rudely from many hosts they join.
So that is a bad first impression for LFS and I hope the developer of whichever InSim program that is, will update the function. InSim provides on screen buttons so you could politely report to a player what the problem is, and give them a chance to change it, not just pop one obscure message into the chat log before you kick them right out.
How about allowing them to spectate, put a message on their screen, saying that they need to change their player name? If they try to join a race you could force them back to spectate. Actually booting them from the host is too severe for the crime of not having entered a player name.
Just to add, this is how he describes the kicking by name (from his website):
It seems that if I e. g. had a nickname "My real name", it would kick me, which is not good at all. However, the list of disallowed names can be updated at any time but I don't know if it can be updated by the host admin or only by the Airio developer. Anyway let's wait for EQ Worry to reply.
It seems that if I e. g. had a nickname "My real name", it would kick me, which is not good at all. However, the list of disallowed names can be updated at any time but I don't know if it can be updated by the host admin or only by the Airio developer. Anyway let's wait for EQ Worry to reply.
It's a server side option, with some things banned as default.
# ---------------------- Prohibited Nicknames --------------------- #
# Pohibited nicknames or parts of those. People with these are
# kicked immediatelly after connecting. Char replacements (see below)
# are applied first. Items are entered as "PName=text". Nicknames are
# also checked for cursing (see below).
PName=unnamed
PName=admin
PName=loginHi Scawen,
This can be done by Airio and LFSLapper.
I will update my lapper scripts for the NLR servers that the unnamed can spectate and not kicked.
A new word I should know?
Indeed Airio is causing the kicks, if "unnamed" is defined among prohibited names, which is the default setting. Anyone can change it for their servers, but by default "unnamed" and "login" are nicknames that are not allowed, and many admins using Airio do not bother to change this.
What I may do is to remove such "names" from default settings. Prohibited names exist to disallow some really bad ones and also to protect team tags. Note that people are actually told specifically what they should do to change the name.
But this all concerns a deeper problem, not just "bad" name. Airio contains many filters, some of them will not allow people to race (and kick them eventually) until they have a reasonable lap time, for which any existing open server can be used, or until they're able to use correct tyres for rally. Is this wrong?
No, I don't think so. There are servers and times where it is not possible to allow people to race when they have no experience. Wrong tyres for rally are causing major crashes, slow and unexperienced people are causing major crashes too. Such drivers would be banned soon and it is better for everyone simply not to let them in.
But I was always saying admins must be very careful about these filters - too strict settings would mean no one will be interested in racing there. For example on AirAttack rally we require that everyone uses hybrid or Knobbly tyres, no exceptions. People are spectated for bad tyres, told specifically what to do. Many fail to comply and are automatically kicked a bit later. But it is the only way.
Also our FBM server is open to everyone for most of the day, but when prime time comes and the server is nearly full, time lock activates and will not allow anyone with too bad lap time to join. Is it wrong? New people trying out LFS may be discouraged, frustrated. Yes, maybe, but there's no other way, in my view. Anyone can improve, come back a bit later and enjoy reasonable racing.
That's my opinion and that's why I implemented many optional filters into Airio. I leave it up to admins to decide what way the're going to use the filters.
What I may do is to remove such "names" from default settings. Prohibited names exist to disallow some really bad ones and also to protect team tags. Note that people are actually told specifically what they should do to change the name.
But this all concerns a deeper problem, not just "bad" name. Airio contains many filters, some of them will not allow people to race (and kick them eventually) until they have a reasonable lap time, for which any existing open server can be used, or until they're able to use correct tyres for rally. Is this wrong?
No, I don't think so. There are servers and times where it is not possible to allow people to race when they have no experience. Wrong tyres for rally are causing major crashes, slow and unexperienced people are causing major crashes too. Such drivers would be banned soon and it is better for everyone simply not to let them in.
But I was always saying admins must be very careful about these filters - too strict settings would mean no one will be interested in racing there. For example on AirAttack rally we require that everyone uses hybrid or Knobbly tyres, no exceptions. People are spectated for bad tyres, told specifically what to do. Many fail to comply and are automatically kicked a bit later. But it is the only way.
Also our FBM server is open to everyone for most of the day, but when prime time comes and the server is nearly full, time lock activates and will not allow anyone with too bad lap time to join. Is it wrong? New people trying out LFS may be discouraged, frustrated. Yes, maybe, but there's no other way, in my view. Anyone can improve, come back a bit later and enjoy reasonable racing.
That's my opinion and that's why I implemented many optional filters into Airio. I leave it up to admins to decide what way the're going to use the filters.
Thanks for your reply.
To be clear : I am not saying it is wrong to remove players from hosts if they cannot meet the requirements. For example if a certain lap time must be achieved to qualify for that host. But that kind of thing should come with plenty of warning and always with an explanation. Hopefully the user should be warned with a central message on their screen - the chat log isn't a reliable place to post such important messages. I hope your system handles that nicely as well.
My post is specifically about kicking innocent people in a "rude" way.
To understand what I am talking about, you must imagine being a new person to LFS. You are all excited to have a look online, you click a host...
loading track... downloading skins... queue position 1... waiting for messages from all players.
BANG back to the list of hosts. Disappointment... confusion...
So what do they do, click on another host. What happens? Exactly the same thing!
So what I am suggesting, is you need to think about this kind of thing. If your program is used by so many people, and is called "Advanced" then you really need a more "advanced" method of kicking someone who joined.
That's why I gave my example. Maybe... let them stay there for at least 20 seconds. Put a description on their screen.
Your player name is "unnamed".
That name is prohibited on this server.
Please edit your name in Player options.
Then if your code is really advanced, maybe it wouldn't even need to kick them if they edit their name within the available time!
So this way, when you do kick someone, they know the reason why. It is just not right to kick people out without warning or explanation. And as I mentioned, the chat log just isn't good enough. While the player is wondering what on earth happened, that message is already gone off the screen.
I have given you a lot of power with the InSim system. With power comes responsibility. Please use it wisely and help new people feel welcome!
To be clear : I am not saying it is wrong to remove players from hosts if they cannot meet the requirements. For example if a certain lap time must be achieved to qualify for that host. But that kind of thing should come with plenty of warning and always with an explanation. Hopefully the user should be warned with a central message on their screen - the chat log isn't a reliable place to post such important messages. I hope your system handles that nicely as well.
My post is specifically about kicking innocent people in a "rude" way.
To understand what I am talking about, you must imagine being a new person to LFS. You are all excited to have a look online, you click a host...
loading track... downloading skins... queue position 1... waiting for messages from all players.
BANG back to the list of hosts. Disappointment... confusion...
So what do they do, click on another host. What happens? Exactly the same thing!
So what I am suggesting, is you need to think about this kind of thing. If your program is used by so many people, and is called "Advanced" then you really need a more "advanced" method of kicking someone who joined.
That's why I gave my example. Maybe... let them stay there for at least 20 seconds. Put a description on their screen.
Your player name is "unnamed".
That name is prohibited on this server.
Please edit your name in Player options.
Then if your code is really advanced, maybe it wouldn't even need to kick them if they edit their name within the available time!
So this way, when you do kick someone, they know the reason why. It is just not right to kick people out without warning or explanation. And as I mentioned, the chat log just isn't good enough. While the player is wondering what on earth happened, that message is already gone off the screen.
I have given you a lot of power with the InSim system. With power comes responsibility. Please use it wisely and help new people feel welcome!
Surely the simplest solution would be to require a non-empty driver name before being allowed online?
I agree with you Scawen.
The way of forcing people to not use prohibited names should be the same as Airio does with mandatory restrictions - in case, that a racer doesn't have required setup, a big central text will appear on his screen, showing all necessary info.
The way of forcing people to not use prohibited names should be the same as Airio does with mandatory restrictions - in case, that a racer doesn't have required setup, a big central text will appear on his screen, showing all necessary info.
Understood! So what we (I mean admins using Airio) in fact need is 2 categories of names:
Prohibited, for which people are kicked immediatelly. They are names like s*** something or names with misused team tags. People changed the name already, so they know, they can be kicked immediatelly and in no polite way as well.
Unwanted, which may stay connected, but which would be e.g. spectated on every race join with the messages you suggest. Unnamed and login would fall into this category, because they're the default names.
I call Airio "advanced" and I hope i'm not exaggerating.
It really has many features, all spectates are accompanied by BIG messages in buttons, adjustable, but of course in case of kicks buttons have no meaning. But you're right, the noname thing is too harsh, so I'll create that other names category asap (that is tomorrow)!
Indeed InSim provides lots of data and it is a great option for extending the standard possibilities. Still, I have some suggestions (just a few) for the future concerning InSim data, even one bug to report. Is there any specific place where I should post this or may I try private message?
So what we (I mean admins using Airio) in fact need is 2 categories of names:Prohibited, for which people are kicked immediatelly. They are names like s*** something or names with misused team tags. People changed the name already, so they know, they can be kicked immediatelly and in no polite way as well.
Unwanted, which may stay connected, but which would be e.g. spectated on every race join with the messages you suggest. Unnamed and login would fall into this category, because they're the default names.
I call Airio "advanced" and I hope i'm not exaggerating.
It really has many features, all spectates are accompanied by BIG messages in buttons, adjustable, but of course in case of kicks buttons have no meaning. But you're right, the noname thing is too harsh, so I'll create that other names category asap (that is tomorrow)!Indeed InSim provides lots of data and it is a great option for extending the standard possibilities. Still, I have some suggestions (just a few) for the future concerning InSim data, even one bug to report. Is there any specific place where I should post this or may I try private message?
Scawen, why not make the registered name the default player name? If they want something else they'll sort it! Simples.
That's a great idea
Thank you for your plan for polite name change requests and not leaving innocent victims confused! That will be helpful for LFS.
Maybe you could make a special thread for InSim update requests in the programmers forum :
http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=9
If you do, I'll put a link to your thread in my notes so I can have a think about InSim suggestions at some point. I always want to get rid of known bugs as well.
Which is why we need to get it in the head of admins of hosts that they shouldn't kick the "noobs" as everyone seems to be known nowadays for silly reasons. They should at least give a warning no matter what they do to get it in the head of the offender that if they do it again, they are GONE! That way imho LFS would be a MUCH better place to be!
ALSO:
You like spiderman? haha.
@Scawen:
This might go offtopic now - but I also would suggest to disallow "unnamed" by LFS itself. I would say to automatically use the license name if no player name has been entered.
It is not easy to handle several "unnamed" players at one server as a admin - that´s why we did not disable this function in Airio.
On the other hand I recognized that ppl seem not to like reading - so even with an explanation they won´t recognize what they did wrong.
This might go offtopic now - but I also would suggest to disallow "unnamed" by LFS itself. I would say to automatically use the license name if no player name has been entered.
It is not easy to handle several "unnamed" players at one server as a admin - that´s why we did not disable this function in Airio.
On the other hand I recognized that ppl seem not to like reading - so even with an explanation they won´t recognize what they did wrong.
Not off topic at all, but where have I heard that suggestion before?
InSim - Lock user...
Hi there,
I think the main reason for kicking people from a server is preventing troubles and keeping the servers clean. There is no other way to "lock" a specific user from messing on a server. I understand we (insim developpers) have to realise often it's a users first impression of online racing with LFS. I think I have a nice solution that works for everybody.
Add an InSim package we can send to the host to "lock" a user. This means the user can't join the track. We could show the reason for the lock in a friendly message in the middle of the screen. This could even be an LFS feature. Let InSim developpers send a reason in the InSim package and let LFS show the popup why they are locked. Hmm? :-)
Thanx,
Mischa
I think the main reason for kicking people from a server is preventing troubles and keeping the servers clean. There is no other way to "lock" a specific user from messing on a server. I understand we (insim developpers) have to realise often it's a users first impression of online racing with LFS. I think I have a nice solution that works for everybody.
Add an InSim package we can send to the host to "lock" a user. This means the user can't join the track. We could show the reason for the lock in a friendly message in the middle of the screen. This could even be an LFS feature. Let InSim developpers send a reason in the InSim package and let LFS show the popup why they are locked. Hmm? :-)
Thanx,
Mischa
Yes there is: /spec
I want to prevent them from even trying to join... and give them neat message Scawen talks about. If you spec them... they keep try joining... even with red message explaining why they can't join... If you lock them with a nice popup they can't join, explain them why and how they could... then Scawen is happy, the user is happy, and peeps in server are happy...
I know about the /spec /kick /ban options :P please give me a /lock
at least I'll be happy then ;-)The problem is that such a /lock could depend on many, many different things. In Airio you have bad car setup (tyres, restrictions, passengers), insufficient time (on server/LFSW), rank (points), safety, current state of the race, previous rejoins, etc...
The join/spec/message principle works OK, in my view, but I concede kicking unnamed outright wasn't the best approach. On the other hand using registered name as default as suggested in two posts above looks like a very elegant solution to me, I guess especially because it is on someone else to implement it.
Anyway, here's a new thingy some people may be interested in, the Aonio tracer, client-side tool working completely (for now) independently of Airio and giving info about yourself (such as fuel level), cars close to you (how far are they just now), people around (time gap, pits, penalties) and the server (name, track, race parameters) you're connected to. Read more about it here, get it right now from the link in my signature.
The join/spec/message principle works OK, in my view, but I concede kicking unnamed outright wasn't the best approach. On the other hand using registered name as default as suggested in two posts above looks like a very elegant solution to me, I guess especially because it is on someone else to implement it.
Anyway, here's a new thingy some people may be interested in, the Aonio tracer, client-side tool working completely (for now) independently of Airio and giving info about yourself (such as fuel level), cars close to you (how far are they just now), people around (time gap, pits, penalties) and the server (name, track, race parameters) you're connected to. Read more about it here, get it right now from the link in my signature.
First of all great work on your new project ;-)
I see advantages of a /lock. If you /spec people try to join the track and a message appears that the user joined the track. They keep trying even when they get a warning about a "lock". If you really lock them, they can't join at all and the people who are racing aren't bothered by these messages. After a lock you could show a friendly message in the middle of the screen why they are locked.
It's just an idea... I think it's not an extreme request... It's just an option in between the current /kick and /spec which I would use. I think when it's implemented you would sooner /lock somebody than /kick him.
Scawen, I hope you have an opinion on this one too. Thanx :-)
Hello,
i think the problem can't be solved easy. Because you can't have a look on each config file for all airio server. Admins must be responsable of their configuration. In case of LFSLapper, i can't do that because there is no action relative to a nickname by default, this is coded with the scripting language by the admin.
An idea, an i think, i put a default script in the next default LFSLapper config file to avoid bad scripts done by admins, is to spec user with a wrong username, display a message query the player to change the nickname between XX second. If it's not done in this time the player will be kicked or if he change his nickname he can click on a "ok" button for closing message. If the player click "ok" and name is not changed, he is kicked.
Bye
Gai-Luron
PS: For EQ: An answer for one of your post in AONIO Topic. You can use part of LFSRelax code for AONIO if you want and only if you release it in Open Source ( i hope soon, Very good
) indicating the origin of the code used.
i think the problem can't be solved easy. Because you can't have a look on each config file for all airio server. Admins must be responsable of their configuration. In case of LFSLapper, i can't do that because there is no action relative to a nickname by default, this is coded with the scripting language by the admin.
An idea, an i think, i put a default script in the next default LFSLapper config file to avoid bad scripts done by admins, is to spec user with a wrong username, display a message query the player to change the nickname between XX second. If it's not done in this time the player will be kicked or if he change his nickname he can click on a "ok" button for closing message. If the player click "ok" and name is not changed, he is kicked.
Bye
Gai-Luron
PS: For EQ: An answer for one of your post in AONIO Topic. You can use part of LFSRelax code for AONIO if you want and only if you release it in Open Source ( i hope soon, Very good
) indicating the origin of the code used.Thanks!
You're right, the messages that someone joined and was spectated right after could be annoying. Still, the major trouble of the /lock command (if any such was created by LFS devs) remains: Such a lock could depend on many different things, not just a name. People could e.g. require lock by lap time or tyres or anything else, and such type of lock cannot really be aplied until the player joins and LFS can see what car he's using and what setup. I don't think it would be possible to prefedine /lock sufficiently in any reasonable way.
Other wild scheme coming to mind is to make LFS server ask the connected InSim if a player can be allowed to join race, but this solution has also its catches. I'm afraid we have to live with the current scheme, spectating people right after joining, with one LFS message as a spam in these cases.
Hi! Yes, that's what I know is necessary. In fact it is my intention to release it as open source soon, at the latest on version 1.0 which should be the first non-beta version. The slight problem is it depends on an external InSim library, Aegio, and I'm not sure code of this library is ready to be opened, mostly because it is not documented. On he other hand opening Aegio, which is quite thoroughly tested and complete, with many helper functions, could help programmers to get started quick...
AIRIO - Advanced LFS Tracker
(2384 posts, started )
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