lol
lol
(Tigershark)
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by Tigershark
Massa fans can rejoice, it may be an all Ferrari rear row - but finaly he's beaten his team mate.
Does anyone know if Schumacher is now allowed to choose his fuel load or if he has to start with his fuel load from Q3?
Does anyone know if Schumacher is now allowed to choose his fuel load or if he has to start with his fuel load from Q3?
Im glad the stewards punished him appropriately, and it seems they had more evidence that we did not have.
The telemetry showed that MS had 'stomped' on the brakes at that turn, rather than the usual pressure applied by himself every other lap. Every half decent racing driver knows that stomping on the brakes is a bad idea as you are going to lock a wheel.
IMO he is caught red handed with his pants down with everyone watching and it all being recorded.
The telemetry showed that MS had 'stomped' on the brakes at that turn, rather than the usual pressure applied by himself every other lap. Every half decent racing driver knows that stomping on the brakes is a bad idea as you are going to lock a wheel.
IMO he is caught red handed with his pants down with everyone watching and it all being recorded.
okay, that makes sense, i didnt see what all happened so i dont know whats going on lol
@sinbad, no you didnt, i was just curious, but .. tbh it doesnt surprise me that the FIA has rules about it.. seems as nowadays they have rules about every dumb thing that goes on
Yay hes been sent to the back of the grid, http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=36078 , all in all i think the right choice.
No, he jumped HARD on the brakes to stagger the field behind him to prevent anybody from getting a run at him.
Alonso does it as well.
Problem is JPM was right up his arse when he did it, AND he did it in a stupid place on the track no less.
And he was leading NOT in 3rd when he did it.
And congrats to the Stewards for showing the balls to send him back, IIRC he did it a couple of times in F3 as well.
I'm afraid there's more to come :
"Ferrari issued the following at 11.55 (BST)
Jean Todt: "Ferrari notes with great displeasure the decision of the race stewards, which is to delete the times set by Michael Schumacher in qualifying for the Monaco Grand Prix. We totally disagree with it. Such a decision creates a very serious precedent, ruling out the possibility of driver error. Michael was on his final timed lap and he was trying to put his first place beyond doubt, as could be seen from the fact that his first split time was the best and could have seen him do another very good lap. With no real evidence, the stewards have assumed he is guilty."
I wonder if Schumi will race tommorrow. Or Ferrari even !
"Ferrari issued the following at 11.55 (BST)
Jean Todt: "Ferrari notes with great displeasure the decision of the race stewards, which is to delete the times set by Michael Schumacher in qualifying for the Monaco Grand Prix. We totally disagree with it. Such a decision creates a very serious precedent, ruling out the possibility of driver error. Michael was on his final timed lap and he was trying to put his first place beyond doubt, as could be seen from the fact that his first split time was the best and could have seen him do another very good lap. With no real evidence, the stewards have assumed he is guilty."
I wonder if Schumi will race tommorrow. Or Ferrari even !
They have sponsors. They've been in every race since it started back in 1950, and they are the majority shareholders for the commercial rights to the series. Ferrari will race.
What Jean Todt is saying there is the next time a driver causes a yellow flag in qualifying they are going to protest it, but I cannot help but notice that Ferrari keep failing to mention what happened in Michaels second split, critically that he was not going to improve on his time, they also havn't commented on the overwhelming telemetry evidence, or the fact that an F1 car does not take several seconds to decellerate from 30-40 mph, or the fact that nobody in the world, not even most Ferrari & Michael fans, thinks he's innocent...
What Jean Todt is saying there is the next time a driver causes a yellow flag in qualifying they are going to protest it, but I cannot help but notice that Ferrari keep failing to mention what happened in Michaels second split, critically that he was not going to improve on his time, they also havn't commented on the overwhelming telemetry evidence, or the fact that an F1 car does not take several seconds to decellerate from 30-40 mph, or the fact that nobody in the world, not even most Ferrari & Michael fans, thinks he's innocent...
@ Sinbad
Obviously I don't have access to his telemetry or his pit radio (which I believe the FIA do, and may be more telling), so my opinion is based on external and on car camera replays.
To me it looks like he went in a bit hot trying to recover the missing tenths, go on the marbles/dirt/oil off line, and as such took the wrong line into Rascasse. Then the rear of the car stepped out, which he corrected, as seen by the second or so on opposite lock. An F1 car can slide for a (relatively) long time on opposite lock (see Schumi at Monaco '96 in the wet), and it wasn't, as seems to be the opinion here, just steering straight.
An example at this point, both repeatable in LFS, on public roads, and in racing cars. Today was wet here, and I had a couple of things to buy in town. So off I went in my trusty hairdressers car to get them. My front tyres are very very close to illegal, and they were the cheapest (read: hardest) tyres I could get when they were new, I don't want too much grip cos that's boring. My rear tyres are in better condition, but roundabout antics, even in the wet, quickly overheat them to the point where oversteer occurs very very easily. So I had a play (and did a lot of testing the feeling I get solely through the steering wheel whilst understeering for use in the 'I can't feel LFS understeering' threads). A lot of my powerslides (not drifts) were controlled by steering straight - any more opposite lock would have caused me to overcorrect and not hold a 80m slide.
Anyway, back to F1. After correcting the slide you can see Schumi apply full lock to get round the corner (still trying to scrub off speed, and locking the unloaded wheels), but ran out of room, and came to a halt next to the wall. At this point I personally believe him to been making a genuine mistake.
He subsequently stalls the car, either because of an electronics fault, poor clutch control (unlikely), or perhaps a myriad of other reasons. But I still don't believe he'd stall there on purpose.
Thus, I believe Schumi is innocent. The FIA couldn't win either way imo. If they did nothing everyone would have said 'Bah, the FIA love Ferrari', and if they did what they did they ruin a motor race, and (again, imo) give an innocent driver a penalty.
On another note: Did anyone notice that Alonso nearly beat Schumi's time despite the yellow flags. I haven't seen Alonso's splits, but to back off and still get within a hundredth of Micheal's time he must have had a STORMING first part of the lap, and surely that would have been noticed by now? So why isn't Alonso penalised for not lifting during a yellow? Wasn't Senna penalised for not lifting at Spa in '92 following an accident?
Finally, did anyone notice the poor standard of driving today? So many of the 'second rate' drivers where have several stabs at turning the car in, as though they were turning in too early and having to correct before having another go? I'd watched a LOT of Monaco GP's, and I've never noticed this habit before. Maybe it's a car trait (low front downforce, and thus the car needs to be forced to turn in), but to me it looks like simply poor driving.
And thus ends Tristan's Analysis of Monaco Qual '06 (for now).
Edit: Becky - Not EVERY race. They missed a few due to strikes and diagreements before, even in the sponsership age. I doubt they'll pull out tomorrow, but it has happened before.
Obviously I don't have access to his telemetry or his pit radio (which I believe the FIA do, and may be more telling), so my opinion is based on external and on car camera replays.
To me it looks like he went in a bit hot trying to recover the missing tenths, go on the marbles/dirt/oil off line, and as such took the wrong line into Rascasse. Then the rear of the car stepped out, which he corrected, as seen by the second or so on opposite lock. An F1 car can slide for a (relatively) long time on opposite lock (see Schumi at Monaco '96 in the wet), and it wasn't, as seems to be the opinion here, just steering straight.
An example at this point, both repeatable in LFS, on public roads, and in racing cars. Today was wet here, and I had a couple of things to buy in town. So off I went in my trusty hairdressers car to get them. My front tyres are very very close to illegal, and they were the cheapest (read: hardest) tyres I could get when they were new, I don't want too much grip cos that's boring. My rear tyres are in better condition, but roundabout antics, even in the wet, quickly overheat them to the point where oversteer occurs very very easily. So I had a play (and did a lot of testing the feeling I get solely through the steering wheel whilst understeering for use in the 'I can't feel LFS understeering' threads). A lot of my powerslides (not drifts) were controlled by steering straight - any more opposite lock would have caused me to overcorrect and not hold a 80m slide.
Anyway, back to F1. After correcting the slide you can see Schumi apply full lock to get round the corner (still trying to scrub off speed, and locking the unloaded wheels), but ran out of room, and came to a halt next to the wall. At this point I personally believe him to been making a genuine mistake.
He subsequently stalls the car, either because of an electronics fault, poor clutch control (unlikely), or perhaps a myriad of other reasons. But I still don't believe he'd stall there on purpose.
Thus, I believe Schumi is innocent. The FIA couldn't win either way imo. If they did nothing everyone would have said 'Bah, the FIA love Ferrari', and if they did what they did they ruin a motor race, and (again, imo) give an innocent driver a penalty.
On another note: Did anyone notice that Alonso nearly beat Schumi's time despite the yellow flags. I haven't seen Alonso's splits, but to back off and still get within a hundredth of Micheal's time he must have had a STORMING first part of the lap, and surely that would have been noticed by now? So why isn't Alonso penalised for not lifting during a yellow? Wasn't Senna penalised for not lifting at Spa in '92 following an accident?
Finally, did anyone notice the poor standard of driving today? So many of the 'second rate' drivers where have several stabs at turning the car in, as though they were turning in too early and having to correct before having another go? I'd watched a LOT of Monaco GP's, and I've never noticed this habit before. Maybe it's a car trait (low front downforce, and thus the car needs to be forced to turn in), but to me it looks like simply poor driving.
And thus ends Tristan's Analysis of Monaco Qual '06 (for now).
Edit: Becky - Not EVERY race. They missed a few due to strikes and diagreements before, even in the sponsership age. I doubt they'll pull out tomorrow, but it has happened before.
Maybe it was a split second decision..approaching the corner wrong he might had his "doubts" or whatever..I dunno. Or maybe he played with his brake-bias button a bit too much lol, who knows. He'll never admit that haha 
Oh well, too bad but shit happens, that's racing !
Oh well, too bad but shit happens, that's racing !
No Mr.Todt, it rules against delibrately stopping. The Stewards concluded it wasn't a driver error, and is not a penalty against genuine driving errors.
I'm starting to completely agree on Beckys thoughts on Schumi after watching this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NNeDgiANfw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NNeDgiANfw
I've watched dutch TV and it's commentator Olav Mol noticed that Alonse was a couple of tents fasther at interval 2 (about 2 to 3 tenths.)
So, since he finished that lap 0.98 slower, he lost at least 0.298 on the last part. more than enough for "lifting"
If I remember correct, Michael had the fastest first TIMED section of 19.3, but Fisichella did a 19.1 on his in-lap in Q2, showing that the renaults have some extra potential there, making it alltogether not unlikely that Alonso was that much faster in his last lap.
Why they didn't red flag qualifying because of that, is a different thing altogether.
Stop trying to cover for Schumi, ALL the evidence is against him...
This is what i mean when i say hes not the best driver out there!!!
Did it to damon hill, did it to villeneurve and did it to montoya.. now he did it to everyone but mainly alonso! He does this when hes scared
.
Did it to damon hill, did it to villeneurve and did it to montoya.. now he did it to everyone but mainly alonso! He does this when hes scared
.Not directed at anyone really, just going to say that in my opinion even if he did make a mistake entering the corner, from a slow-mo replay (I think the first youtube one) I'd say at that moment (at the latest) he decided to straighten the wheel and drive towards the LHS barrier. From what I saw I think he could have easily turned into the corner without going wide, but elected to turn in way too late after having made the mistake.
But it's all hearsay, none of us are him so..
But it's all hearsay, none of us are him so..
@Tristan
You've failed to mention the point that the FIA have claimed that his entrance speed to the corner is pretty much the same. There's also the point that he corrected the car well before he reached the second turn where he turned, slammed the brakes on where you see the front lock very slightly and then straightens the wheel up.
I personally think this is 100% deliberate, he didn't need to make a second `correction` the car was turning exactly as it should have been.
Have you seen this - http://personal.inet.fi/koti/y ... 3_schumacher_incar_LQ.avi
Keiran
You've failed to mention the point that the FIA have claimed that his entrance speed to the corner is pretty much the same. There's also the point that he corrected the car well before he reached the second turn where he turned, slammed the brakes on where you see the front lock very slightly and then straightens the wheel up.
I personally think this is 100% deliberate, he didn't need to make a second `correction` the car was turning exactly as it should have been.
Have you seen this - http://personal.inet.fi/koti/y ... 3_schumacher_incar_LQ.avi
Keiran
Daym you.. i just saw that video and i was going to say that :P.. Or something simmilar.
It was a driver error, BUT as you can see AFTER he locks up, which would be understandable if he kept locking into the wall with his wheel turned, he straightens the wheel to go into the wall. Where else is there to go? He could have kept the wheel turned cause he wasnt in a lock up anymore and would have made it. But he took advantage of the lock up to make it look like a mistake!
And where was JPM? I heard he was on the rear of schumy. Which by the way was about 0.3-0.4s faster then is best lap which could have givin him a 3rd or a 4th (which could have been a 2nd for the penalty).
It was a driver error, BUT as you can see AFTER he locks up, which would be understandable if he kept locking into the wall with his wheel turned, he straightens the wheel to go into the wall. Where else is there to go? He could have kept the wheel turned cause he wasnt in a lock up anymore and would have made it. But he took advantage of the lock up to make it look like a mistake!
And where was JPM? I heard he was on the rear of schumy. Which by the way was about 0.3-0.4s faster then is best lap which could have givin him a 3rd or a 4th (which could have been a 2nd for the penalty).
Well Schumacher is very clever, we know that he even adjusts settings in the car for specific corners of a track mid race.
He knew his time was not fast enough so he went out again, then messed up and was off the pace...so he pushed too hard in the final sector and as he made that mistake instantly knew he would be too slow (judging by Renaults pace which he knew about from their previous aborted laps) And being so determined to win all the time he made a rash move, he has done it before and I think its a shame that he does it.
If you look at it, he catches the rear and starts turning into the corner...then steers left for no apparent reason, the rear had stopped sliding. Then he stalls it...7 times world champion stalls the car so easily
illepall when did you last see Schumacher stall his car!
Schumacher has a fantastic talent, i have nothing but praise for what he has achieved...however his attitude and unsporting behaviour causes me to dislike him.
He knew his time was not fast enough so he went out again, then messed up and was off the pace...so he pushed too hard in the final sector and as he made that mistake instantly knew he would be too slow (judging by Renaults pace which he knew about from their previous aborted laps) And being so determined to win all the time he made a rash move, he has done it before and I think its a shame that he does it.
If you look at it, he catches the rear and starts turning into the corner...then steers left for no apparent reason, the rear had stopped sliding. Then he stalls it...7 times world champion stalls the car so easily
illepall when did you last see Schumacher stall his car!Schumacher has a fantastic talent, i have nothing but praise for what he has achieved...however his attitude and unsporting behaviour causes me to dislike him.
Lets not forget last year at China when he spun it going slow when the safety car was out!.. not saying that it was a form of cheating, but meh..
Typical Schumacher... 100% deliberate as far as I'm concerned.
I would beleive a lot of drivers could do that as a stupid mistake (including some F1 drivers) but that just isn't like Schumi.
Very selfish trick parking your car where you know the race will have to be yellow flaged or stopped, and sadly I've seen this in club racing too.
I would beleive a lot of drivers could do that as a stupid mistake (including some F1 drivers) but that just isn't like Schumi.
Very selfish trick parking your car where you know the race will have to be yellow flaged or stopped, and sadly I've seen this in club racing too.
Er, you think? I always watch the TSN broadcast here in Canada rather than the Speed Channel one, so I get the U.K. commentary...the Speed guys are funnier but seem to have no idea what the hell they're talking about half the time. Anyway, none of them are a patch on Murray. Sigh.
so i put up a bet on LFS on the noobs server
100$ says this wasn't schumacher's idea, he wouldnt do anything like that on purpose, that is definetly the work of the team manager
100$ says this wasn't schumacher's idea, he wouldnt do anything like that on purpose, that is definetly the work of the team manager
(thisnameistaken)
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by thisnameistaken
^^ I second that ITV's coverage is crap, don't know whose worse James Allen or Martin Brundle.
Ferrari cheats at monaco?
(232 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG