Quote from JazzOn :

There was a rival weith the name Hamilon comiing up real fast and going right to take the shortly coming left turn in a reasonable speed.

Webber acted as if this was last lap, last corner...

Yes Webber wants to win the championship!! dduuhhh!!!

He wanted to make sure Vettel had a tough time getting past. NMothing wrong with that. He forced Vettel into making a childish move, no actually, that's offensive to children because I've seen Cadet karters handle that kind of situation better. Webber has extended his lead and Vette is rattled... so I guess for Webber it's worked out perfectly

Vettel has learned his lesson anyway, I don't think he'll be making the same assumption again.

Quote from DevilDare :

You got to be kidding me... Button was not faster than Hamilton. What race were you watching? Seriously...

Button was just as fast as Hamilton, so what race were YOU watching?!



As for all this RB 50/50 nonsense, how is any of the blame for Mark Webber? He didn't do anything wrong, he left a cars width on the left of him but Vettel went up into the left side expecting Webber to move over and make it easy for him, and then Vettel just turns right into Webber, if you look at the onboard you can see Webber doesn't deviate at all up until the point that he actually starts deviating right and Vettel still hits him.

Vettel went for a small gap when he came up from the back of Webber. Webber held his line through the entire straight until he was hit and you people think it's 50/50? I'm glad I don't race on LFS much anymore because I would probably get wrecked by one of you fools who know very little about race-craft..


I agree completely with Intrepid on this matter. Vettel has yet again proved why he won't be World Champion.

What you guys seem to not realise is that the Mclaren are faster on the straight with their duct.

Forcing your teammate to the side, where only his car can barely fit in and not thinking about the "real" rival that will take advantage of them both going way slower through the corners as they could, when both turn into that corner coming from the actual right side of the track..

Im not saying Vettel is unguilty, but Webber was too narrow minded to read the race. I assume you guys don't have a team (anymore)? I wouldn't wonder...

Quote from JPeace :

I think both of them have : Webber for being unable to use his brain properly, and Vettel for showing how he cannot seem to be able to pass somebody without crashing into them.

Explain to me why he wasn't using his brain properly?

Quote from BlueFlame :

Explain to me why he wasn't using his brain properly?

I have done that already...idiot

:munching_

Quote from JPeace :

here comes vettel, where is he in the championship? oh there he is about 35 points adrift and in 8th or w/e.

You just lost the argument, they were equal on points at the top...

Quote from JPeace :

Trying to force Vettel off the road when he was coming by anyway (why leave a space big enough for Vettel to come through anyway). A championship leader should be thinking, here comes vettel, where is he in the championship? oh there he is about 35 points adrift and in 8th or w/e. Not OMG VETTEL KILL PUSH HIM OFF DIE BITCH DIE.

That to me isn't using his brain. He should let Vettel take the win, and come second, keeping his (main) rivals behind him, (Button mainly).

Huh? He didn't try to force Vettel off the road. Webber didn't move at all, he kept completely straight, until Vettel tried to force HIM out of the way.

Quote from JPeace :

Trying to force Vettel off the road when he was coming by anyway (why leave a space big enough for Vettel to come through anyway). A championship leader should be thinking, here comes vettel, where is he in the championship? oh there he is about 35 points adrift and in 8th or w/e. Not OMG VETTEL KILL PUSH HIM OFF DIE BITCH DIE.

That to me isn't using his brain. He should let Vettel take the win, and come second, keeping his (main) rivals behind him, (Button mainly).

Watch the replay! Webber comes left to defend the inside before Vettel gets alongside him, Vettel then wedges his car in a small gap and cuts Webber up completely. Why should he let Vettel win? Webber was the championship leader, and he still is! Vettel went for the small gap expecting the room from Webber, if Webber had conceded more room for Vettel, then he would be Vettels bitch for the rest of the season. Ask yourself what would YOU do in Webbers situation, if you say I'd concede the position, then you obviously have no balls or sense of what racing is all about at all.

Quote from JPeace :

Damn you're right.

Ok then new approach. I would have rather let him go, and finished second, with Vettels reputation of crashing anyway. But having said that, why shouldn't he race Vettel? This all links bad to Webber's driving, why the hell make the effort to move across the track to block, and then leave a redbull sized gap on the inside having done it. Why not shut the door completely, and then vettel would have stormed round the outside, and outbroken himself as he usually does. Hamilton then up to second and possibly button to 3rd, with Vettel having lost momentum. That would have meant that webber came away with full points again AND he had been able to make his rival lose points.

Webber was naive in allowing Vettel the gap. I'm 100% with you about what Webber should have actually done - stayed left completely.

However racing naivety is one thing, what Vettel did was cause an accident.

Quote from JPeace :

and who gets the new parts specially flown out? Webber.

Uh, Vettel got the new rear wing before Webber. Vettel had it in Friday practice, Webber only just had it flown in before quali.

Vettel did have the wing since Friday.

So Webber giving some room to his teammate who has a very decent run on him = "no balls or sense of what racing is about at all"

Button is a real pussy for staying away from Hamilton in T1. He doesn't know what racing is about. A real man would have stayed there and got hit. That's racing.

Great race, loved seeing the 4 guys at the front running so close together. My view of the Red Bull incident is that Webber could have given Vettel more room, and it would have been smart to do so, but he also did nothing wrong. If I were the team principle I would sit the drivers down and remind them both to leave their egos at the door, the team is more important.

Quote from JPeace :

On a purely common sense grounds: I think webber shouldn't have squezzed Vettel so much, he should learn that Vettel was coming through no matter what. As championship leader, these kind of mistakes are stupid and amateur, hopefully he will learn. But Vettel shouldn't have moved over, thats for sure.

I dont understand why you say Webber squeezed anyone , he doesnt deviate his course at all and that is his right, Vettel could have taken him cleanly but he choose his normal bullying style of overtaking and it failed badly.

It was a stupid ill concieved pass and if what there saying on Autosport that MW was told to turn his fuel settings down while Seb was told to turn his up it makes the pass even more retarded as he would of have the straight line advantage .

It's not often i get to agree with both Intrepid and Blue flame in a thread.

I'll treasure this moment.

I bet JazzOn is one of those guys that thinks people should just move over and let him by when he's faster, then wrecks when they actually put up a fight, and spends the rest of the session spamming the chat "It was your fault, you should have let me past, I was faster than you"

Quote from richo :

there saying on Autosport that MW was told to turn his fuel settings down while Seb was told to turn his up.

Before this race I was torn whether to root for Webber or Vettel but if what they're saying is true, I now know who's my favourite. Guess who.

Vettel is at fault for the crash. As a viewer I welcome the cut throat racing between teammates. However, if I was the team principle, I would spank both their asses.

Quote from The Moose :

...
I bet JazzOn is one of those guys that thinks people should just move over and let him by when he's faster, then wrecks when they actually put up a fight, and spends the rest of the session spamming the chat "It was your fault, you should have let me past, I was faster than you"

Well, seeing as the real rival coming up behind them, it makes perfectly sence to let the faster teammate pass. I'm not saying that Webber is at fault entirely, but he should have read the race and think about the team (the one thats lets him play with those fast cars and pay him good money )

I am just dissapointed of him, because he wasn't as smart and wise as i expected/thought of him.

And no, i would spam " mirrors mirrors" :P

Seriously, like i already said. Last lap, last corner - alright.. defend, but it wasn't over yet by far and the mclaren showed how to defend there in a fair manner, especially against your mate. I can fully understand why Vettel did what he did as a Racedriver.

what webber was doing by being so far over was making sure vettel had no chance of getting to clean track for braking, at worst webber would have been on a less dirty part of the track and if he'd jinked right at the last moment he'd have had access to the clean track . basically he was putting a lot of preassure on vettel, saying that i'm going to fight this, what he didn't expect was for vettel to behave like a touring car driver and try to force his way to his right.

sure he was risking letting hamilton catch or pass both of them whilst they sorted their braking out but put yourself in webber's place, the pass was effectively for leadership of the championhsip and given the language / behaviour coming out of redbull you could guarentee that if he'd let vettel past then he'd have been forced to play second fiddle to him for the rest of the season. given red bull still appear to have the fastest car it would be far better for him to finish 2nd with vettel 3rd rather than 2nd with vettel 1st and of course he may still have held on to 1st place and possibly had vettel behind hamilton in 3rd. even the final result of 3rd with hamilton and button in front has actually given him a lead in the championship rather than being behind vettel.

for redbull it must be truely annoying but thats no reason to be so pro vettel and if the differing engine instructions are true then it tells you all you need to know about their intentions this year.


edit: i see there are reports of a split between the 2 sides of redbull with horner siding with webber and possibilities of an anglo saxon - australian / german - austrian split forming

Vettel as you say is a race driver no doubt but he also had almost another 20 laps to get it done cleanly and i think he would have, what happened in that race was clearly a red mist situation and his right foot was doing all the thinking..

Quote from JPeace :

****ing legard.

Don't use that nob Legard as a placebo. Webber did nothing wrong. Vettel had no reason to be as agressive as he was anyway. When you are being overtaken you drive defensively. But Webber was only being defensive in a half-arsed way, he gave Vettel a small gap and he made Vettel choose a mistake, rather than a mature option, which is exactly how Mark Webber benefitted from it. Even if Mark didn't finnish the race. Red Bull would now most certainly back Webber for the championship.

In all fairness, richo, i'm just saying that Webber is at fault too and that's for the most part.

He should, with his age and experience, use the whole right part of the track (how much was there?) to start his counter attack, or for that matter, defend his position.

Edit: man blueflame, you're a dickhead.

/thread

Quote from JazzOn :

In all fairness, i'm just saying that Webber is at fault too and that's for the most part.

He should, with his age and experience, use the whole right part of the track (how much was there?) to start his counter attack or for that matter, defend his position.

He wasn't at fault... Vettel went for a small gap that Mark left especially for him. He played right into Webbers trap. He got played. Like when you leave the door open and they try to outbrake you but fly off. He played him like a Formula Ford rookie.

They are team mates, so if you blame Webber for not giving enough room, then surely the fact Vettel went for a gap that was barely there is enough blame to put on Vettel and judge that the incident was purely Vettels fault.

Quote from JazzOn :

In all fairness, i'm just saying that Webber is at fault too and that's for the most part.

He should, with his age and experience, use the whole right part of the track (how much was there?) to start his counter attack or for that matter, defend his position.

How do you know he wouldn't have if Vettel hadn't wrecked him? He never had the chance to move back over to the right for the braking zone, Vettel had crashed into him well before the point that he'd move back onto the racing line.

Quote :

He should [...]use the whole right part of the track (how much was there?) to start his counter attack

But they weren't in the braking zone yet. It doesn't take a split second to throw the car to the right and guide it in, while the dude on the inside is trying to slow down enough to make the corner. It would have been just fine if he'd done the move moments later when Webber was eventually going to go for the better entry line. Just. Too. Early.